[Traditional Enneagram] The new and improved Enneagram! From the sponge and evan.

[redacted]

Yeah okay well I can go with the first part, but no, there's really not much 9 in me at all, but still very much of 5.

It could be that I'm a sorta exceptional case in that I did have a very violent, traumatic event that sorta ruptured my life from early 20's onwards kind of totally asunder from my life previous to that, so that I not only developed in a direction that was very artificial, with a sort of 'forced' personality of introverted behaviour, leading to my seeking solace and to make sense of the deep shit i was in through the acquisition of knowledge and very 5 type behaviour. But then when I was sorta liberated from that in a completely unforeseeable way, my whole personality was able to take off in a totally different direction as my actual authentic extraversion made itself known.

Hm... my first objection to the official Enneagram system was that I felt I should be 8w5 haha... but up to my early 20's I really was a very stereotypical 5, whilst as I say, now most people say (including the pro Enneagram dude I know in RL) that I'm split down the middle between 7 and 8.

Making sense of shit through acquisition of knowledge is an emergent property of type 5, not an inherent one (in this system). A type 9 can have similar emergent properties.

Type 5 is supressive/avoiding. Type 9 is controlling/avoiding. Both can be obsessed with making sense of their world, but for slightly different reasons.

If your order is correct, you should probably be closer to 9 than 5, because "controlling" is your dominant value in the emotion variable, not supressing. If you stay in conrolling in that variable and go from pursuing to avoiding in the other, you go from 7 to 9.

That's all our system does. I guess it's possible to go entirely from one mode to the other (switch two variables at the same time), but it would seem to be less likely.

I guess that's a potential downside to the system.

(Remember, we have redefined the types as literally just the intersection of the two variables. So all excess data on types would be talking about emergent properties, not necessary ones.)

 

[redacted]

Did anybody notice my question? I still need help.

Emotion variable:

Turbulent -- emotions take hold; emotional reactions are valid by default.
Suppressing -- emotions get in the way, they should be pushed aside as much as possible.
Controlling -- sort of a midpoint between the two -- emotions are a reality, and need to be thought through and sorted out before choosing how to act on them.

 

[substitute]

Yeah okay, like you say it's a limitation to the system because that's just what I did, switch entirely. So says the shrink too

I definitely was suppressive, and turned controlling. Ha, that sounds bad taken out of context hahaha..

 

[entropie]

I just did your test with my girlfriend and she gave me a completly different Point of View of myself that I still need to grasp. Wanted you to ask, if this combination could work:

Me:

Core Type: Avoiding / Suppressive = 5
1st Wing: Avoiding / Turbulent = 4
2nd Wing: Anticipating/Suppressive = 1

(uff completly new point of myself o0 )

My girlfriend:

Core Type: Anticipating / Turbulent = 6
1st Wing: Anticipating / Controlled = 2
2nd Wing: Pursuing / Turbulent = 8

---

Have to think about this but my girlfriend could have made a point here. She is pretty much INFJ and good at those things, as you folks are.

Just wanted to ask here, if the above combinations work, according to theory

 

[Delphyne]

If the descriptions are very short, words can be misleading. All enneagram types are avoiding in a certain way, but here the word “avoiding” is used to communicate a specific concept. Your girlfriend can give you a valuable new point of view if she tells you why and in what way she perceives you as avoiding, but could nonetheless be wrong about your e-type.

 

[entropie]

I understand, what you mean. She has no clue of MBTI or Enneagram or whatsoever. So we just did a "what word fits best" based analysis.

I was surprised though that she gave me the avoiding tag in my behaviour but I am beginning to understand her PoV. I just did continue the thought and wanted to know, if according to the theory of the Enneagram presented here, the above types can fit.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

God damn it. It figures that activity in this topic would pick up as soon as I'd have limited internet access... Where to start, where to start...

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Did anybody notice my question? I still need help.

The second variable is in reference to a person's most default mood, or means of emotional management. The turbulent type lets emotions run wild. The suppressive type tries to cut them out. The controlling type tries to pick and choose which it best likes to express.

You should identify with all of them to an extent, because you should possess all of those qualities. The question is which method of approaching your emotions do you default to.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Take note.

I'm still open to change on a number of factors. For instance, at the moment, we state that you are more likely to drop two on one variable and stay the same on one, then you are to drop one on both variables. Now, that was my conjecture, but I'm not certain that it is true.

So, for instance, it may be more likely that I would become a 2 or 3 than a 4, or maybe more likely that I'd become a 4 than a 2 or a 3. I'm still not positive on this yet.

Either way, you are more likely to drop down on only one than to drop down on both at the same time.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I´m wondering if it´s just about getting a nice label. You see, the fuzzy, esoteric aesthetic has one advantage, you have to strain yourself to get any understanding out of it. If you make it very easy you may miss what it´s all about. To understand your type it´s necessary to invest time and energy or you will only get a nice label.

That´s not specifically directed at you, I just observe that there´s more talk about enneagram test scores than passions.

Yes, it´s the same. There´s a difference between getting your test results and actually learning about your type.

All of that is fascinating and everything, but I think it is a decidedly different topic.

 

[INTJMom]

The second variable is in reference to a person's most default mood, or means of emotional management. The turbulent type lets emotions run wild. The suppressive type tries to cut them out. The controlling type tries to pick and choose which it best likes to express.

You should identify with all of them to an extent, because you should possess all of those qualities. The question is which method of approaching your emotions do you default to.

It would be helpful to me if you would elaborate more on the descriptions you put in the first post.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

It would be helpful to me if you would elaborate more on the descriptions you put in the first post.

Well, is there any particular aspect of my descriptions that you felt were unclear, or any questions about particular matters that I did not address?

 

[Mondo]

According to this I am a 4w5w6 and a PIS.


I thought I was a 4w3 but I can definitely relate to Anticipating more than Pursuing- I am not aggressive at all.

My ranking from this is

4>5>6>9>8>1>3>2>7

That means from the conventional Enneagram system, I would have the following wings for each type.

1w9, 2w1, 3w4, 4w5, 5w4, 6w5, 7w6, 8w9, 9w8

 

[Haphazard]

5>3>9 IPS.

I suppose.

 

[INTJMom]

Well, is there any particular aspect of my descriptions that you felt were unclear, or any questions about particular matters that I did not address?

Well, I felt that I equally related to each.
I was hoping for some more differentiation so I could tell them apart better.

 

[INTJMom]

...
The second variable is one that regards emotional states and responses. They can be turbulent, suppressive, or controlling, for lack of better words.

The turbulent ones are the people that do not hinder their emotions at all. They let their moods tempestuously flare with every feeling as it is set off. Their emotions run wild. They often seem to tilt toward being more negative than positive, but I think this is largely just because there are more negative emotions than positive ones, not because these types particularly want to dwell on negativity. These types are 4, 6, and 8.

The suppressive types try to keep their emotions from speaking up. They tend to believe that they can work best when they are not hearing their emotions much or at all. By default they are well composed people. But when they fail to successfully suppress their emotions, it often results in awkward displays. These types are 1, 3, and 5.

The controlling types are the ones that try to manipulate the flow of their own feelings to their advantage. These are the people that try to think positive. They make an effort to both display desirable emotions to others, and to also frequently reassure themselves of such good feelings. Most usually pick feelings like confidence, happiness, or love to project, but they may develop whatever feeling is appealing to them. They are also prone to suffering from denial, and usually take it very hard if their self-assurances can be completely disproven. These types are 2, 7, and 9.

So, to summarize the types:
Pursuing/Turbulent = 8. Avoiding/Turbulent = 4. Anticipating/Turbulent = 6. Pursuing/Suppressive = 3. Avoiding/Suppressive = 5. Anticipating/Suppressive = 1. Pursuing/Controlling = 7. Avoiding/Controlling = 9. Anticipating/Controlling = 2.

Here's a chart of the types, centering on the 8, to help give you an idea of where they stand.

View attachment 2463

This additional picture, centered on the 1, shows you the pattern if the chart was continuously tiled.

View attachment 2464

Every type shares one value with four of the other types, and shares no value with the remaining types. As you can see in the charts, a type shares a value with every other type that is on the same row or column. Naturally, a type shares both values only with itself. So as an example, the 1 is anticipating and suppressed, it relates to the 2 and 6 because they are both anticipating, and it relates to the 3 and 5, because they are both suppressed.

Emotion variable:

Turbulent -- emotions take hold; emotional reactions are valid by default.
Suppressing -- emotions get in the way, they should be pushed aside as much as possible.
Controlling -- sort of a midpoint between the two -- emotions are a reality, and need to be thought through and sorted out before choosing how to act on them.

The second variable is in reference to a person's most default mood, or means of emotional management. The turbulent type lets emotions run wild. The suppressive type tries to cut them out. The controlling type tries to pick and choose which it best likes to express.

You should identify with all of them to an extent, because you should possess all of those qualities. The question is which method of approaching your emotions do you default to.

(Just trying to get all the info in one place.)

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Well, I felt that I equally related to each.
I was hoping for some more differentiation so I could tell them apart better.

Hmmm... That's pretty impressive. So none of those three things seem less familiar to you? You don't think any of them is distinctly more common for you to be than the others?

 

[INTJMom]

Hmmm... That's pretty impressive. So none of those three things seem less familiar to you? You don't think any of them is distinctly more common for you to be than the others?

turbulent- there was a time when whenever I got angry everyone around me for miles would know about it. I was taught that feelings are not valid.

suppressive- I was taught by my parents that showing my feelings was not okay, so I learned to suppress my feelings
I still do this. If someone yells at me or hurts my feelings, I will continue as though nothing has happened, but as soon as I am alone, I will start crying and thinking about my feelings.

controlling- when I start experiencing feelings, I have to think about them and whether it is okay to express them or not. I used to ask myself, do I have the right to be angry about such-and-such?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

turbulent- there was a time when whenever I got angry everyone around me for miles would know about it. I was taught that feelings are not valid.

suppressive- I was taught by my parents that showing my feelings was not okay, so I learned to suppress my feelings
I still do this. If someone yells at me or hurts my feelings, I will continue as though nothing has happened, but as soon as I am alone, I will start crying and thinking about my feelings.

controlling- when I start experiencing feelings, I have to think about them and whether it is okay to express them or not. I used to ask myself, do I have the right to be angry about such-and-such?

This makes it a bit clearer. It sounds to me like you are a suppressive that is secondarily turbulent.

I'm a suppressive type, and yet people do know when I'm angry (not as good at hiding as I think). You have strong emotions, but first and foremost you try to put them down, you don't think you should have strong emotions (or at leasty express them), so you are suppressive. The emotions are still there, of course, and whenever your compulsion to suppress is let down, they simply come pouring out, so you are turbulent.

The reason you are not controlling, is that "controlling" in this case does not simply mean any kind of intervention with your emotions, like suppression would be. At one time, I also called this value the "projecting" value. You see, it is not merely that a controller/projector is trying to subdue their feelings, rather, they intentionally try to project some of them outward, even to extremes beyond what is really being felt. While the suppressing type is putting all emotions down, and the turbulent type is letting them all go, the controlling type is picking and choosing which ones to dampen and which ones to enhance. Often, controllers pick positive emotions to inflate and negative emotions to dampen, hence the characterization of 2s, 7s, and 9s as all being types that have a hard time facing ugly situations. What you refered to as your controlling tendency sounds more like another example of suppression.

Does that make sense?

 

[INTJMom]

This makes it a bit clearer. It sounds to me like you are a suppressive that is secondarily turbulent.

I'm a suppressive type, and yet people do know when I'm angry (not as good at hiding as I think). You have strong emotions, but first and foremost you try to put them down, you don't think you should have strong emotions (or at leasty express them), so you are suppressive. The emotions are still there, of course, and whenever your compulsion to suppress is let down, they simply come pouring out, so you are turbulent.

The reason you are not controlling, is that "controlling" in this case does not simply mean any kind of intervention with your emotions, like suppression would be. At one time, I also called this value the "projecting" value. You see, it is not merely that a controller/projector is trying to subdue their feelings, rather, they intentionally try to project some of them outward, even to extremes beyond what is really being felt. While the suppressing type is putting all emotions down, and the turbulent type is letting them all go, the controlling type is picking and choosing which ones to dampen and which ones to enhance. Often, controllers pick positive emotions to inflate and negative emotions to dampen, hence the characterization of 2s, 7s, and 9s as all being types that have a hard time facing ugly situations. What you referred to as your controlling tendency sounds more like another example of suppression.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, except that I was taught to suppress them, and the enneagram is something I'm supposed to have learned in infancy.
The other problem is that Xander says I'm not a five.
Though I relate to a lot of the stuff, I'm actually more of a four,
according to this guy's definitions:
The Enneagram Type Test