[Traditional Enneagram] How to integrate anger into your social life ?

[Virtual ghost]

I presume this will probably turn into gut type confession room.



Recently I have admitted to myself that I am gut type even if I knew that indirectly for quite some time, especially since I was giving myself very agressive fixes (8,1,3) in order to justfy my energy. But after taking a closer look and comparing myself to others around me I just had to admit that this is not working and that I have to rethink the core claims. I did that with pretty good success but I still didn't solve the source of my problem and that is how to be myself around others ... the problem that got me into the path of deconstuction in the first place.



I didn't saw myself as anger based since I don't childlishly rage at people or throw stuff around. But there are countless elements that say otherwise: often I have extra energy so I decide to do something practical that needs to be done (chop a wild tree in the garden or repaint the walls ... etc.), I go for walks that can last for 3-4 hours and I am very fast walker so most people can't keep up with me, or I go on mountain climbing. When my teacher was throwing chairs around the classroom I got a strong need to throw one back at him (but that would create much more problem than it would solve), I got trolled/bullied for some time in hight school by the guy who was pretty obvious psychopath and one day when he crossed the line completely and no one cared. Therefore I have decided to make a "punch or two" (what else you can do with a guy who braggs that he is straight E student).

Most of music I have ever liked was angry and dark like metal, industrial or video game/movie soundtracks (especially the themes of bad guys). Back in school violent/strategic video games were so much more interesting to me than the stuff learned in school that often don't have clear point. Therefore you just sit there the whole day and take notes, which you later try to memorize down to the last sentance. While in the end your final grade is reduced because you are not "emotinally creative" enought or something "equaly silly". While to me facts and info without possible results are basically pointless in at least 80% of the cases. (we can have a philosophic/scientific debate or two). Education system where you can get to the the master degree without solving a single real life problem is simply pointless ....... etc. (not to name my every problem).



What I am saying is that I need my anger since it is my motivation, my strenght and something that allows me to provide goods/information/protection to others. Without anger I simply become apathic, alienated and bored. I don't have to be hyper all the time but in general I like to know why I have to do something. However all of this usually backfires and to the most people I just come off as too strong/intense. (especially if I decide so share some of my dark life experience) Therefore I keep my mouth shut if I trully don't have something really smart/important to say. I have solved this to some degree by debating people on the internet so that lets out some of the steam, but that has a feeling of running away from the problem. Everything is just running away: Internet, music, walks, video games, .... all of that simple because I come across as too opinioned. (and I believe I have something to offer on many subjects since I am learning my entire life) I have recently said to my mother that knows nothing about typology that I am anger based person and she said "I have long ago lost my doubts about that. "


I can be with people, I had friendships of various kinds through my life I have joined some associations ... etc. but none of those people sees me for what I am. Since I surpress many of my key parts in order to be the part of the group. I would even dare to say that Communist/totalitarian legacy of my country prevents people from taking things into their hands and therefore I clash with social structures and do Fe bashing just for fun. In general people say I am enigmatic but this is only because they see that I am obviously not fully open with them (and I am not). Therefore creating of any close relationships is hard for me ... what creates additional problems.



The bottom line is: how did other gut triad people balance anger/drive and social life ?



I have underlined one sentence since I think that is important to give extra attention to that on American forum. This greatly effects context.

 

[ceecee]

I think this...

I would even dare to say that Communist/totalitarian legacy of my country prevents people from taking things into their hands and therefore I clash with social structures and do Fe bashing just for fun. In general people say I am enigmatic but this is only because they see that I am obviously not fully open with them (and I am not).

couldn't possibly impact me in the way it impacts you. And I'm glad you pointed this out - it matters. Fe bashing just for fun - maybe. I dismiss it more than bashing but there have been times I will say - take your Fe and shove it, grow a backbone and stop whining or GTFO. This is only towards Fe users who hate their circumstances but do nothing to change them, the others I can be more understanding and sympathetic towards.

As I have gotten older, I've learned the difference between a hill I want to die on and a battle that will accomplish nothing. Of course that impacts my social life. The funny thing is - the majority of the people close to me are Fe dominants. I've never been called enigmatic, but I have been told that I'm not open with people. I don't deny this at all - I have no desire to be open with people for the most part. I can relate an event or experience but I rarely add how it impacts me or how I feel about it.

Perhaps having all these Fe doms around me helps with socializing and interacting with people, in general. I would credit that plus getting older and wiser. I've posted this before but I see my anger as change in my pocket - it's there for me to spend when I need it. Motivation, energy, excitement, passion - that all comes from the anger. I can't imagine seeing it as a negative - it accomplishes so much in my life but I had to learn to control it and funnel it to benefit me.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think this...

couldn't possibly impact me in the way it impacts you. And I'm glad you pointed this out - it matters. Fe bashing just for fun - maybe. I dismiss it more than bashing but there have been times I will say - take your Fe and shove it, grow a backbone and stop whining or GTFO. This is only towards Fe users who hate their circumstances but do nothing to change them, the others I can be more understanding and sympathetic towards.

It doesn't have to be bashing, it can be ignoring, making fun of, cutting of the other person etc. I don't even have problem with Fe as Fe but with what Fe can represent in this country, what is often unacceptable/pointless to me. Especially since it is often reduced to "Everybody is doing it so I will as well". But ok, I am not going into another rant about my country.


What you wrote is basically why I have changed my tritype and MBTI instead of just tritype. I was pretty extroverted child and used to hang out 6+ hours with other children and run throught near by forrest. However with shit on shit and general ignore of my top function/needs by my parents and education system I have become quite alienated and therefore now I am crawling back into normal life because I am feeling trapped. it is just that I have no idea what to do with my determination in a way that it isn't often negative in its social impact. I can quiet down things or not be there in the first place, however both can be quite dissatisfactory solutions even if I am doing exactly that for decades.

When I unleash it all out without censorship every scenario basically ends like this ...

Your score = 88 % Type A

You seem to have a Type A personality. Type A personality is characterized by an exaggerated sense of time urgency, competitiveness, anger and hostility. People who share certain characteristics with you are often concerned with the acquisition of objects and generally dissatisfied with the world, including oneself. You don't know how and when to relax. People probably get tense around you, and they tend to feel threatened in your presence. Continuous stress and allowing unexpressed feelings to pile up are not good for your health. You should start learning how to relax, to let go, and enjoy life. Work on your communication skills. Try to take it easy and be lazy sometimes. It might be hard and it would take some effort, but you certainly know how to pick up a challenge.

However letting go in my case often ends in complete apathy when I see how much people around me just don't care to make it right/functional. (you saw my other posts)


So I am simply wondering how did other body types solve these kinds of problems ?

 

[Poki]

It doesn't have to be bashing, it can be ignoring, making fun of, cutting of the other person etc. I don't even have problem with Fe as Fe but with what Fe can represent in this country, what is often unacceptable/pointless to me. Especially since it is often reduced to "Everybody is doing it so I will as well". But ok, I am not going into another rant about my country.


What you wrote is basically why I have changed my tritype and MBTI instead of just tritype. I was pretty extroverted child and used to hang out 6+ hours with other children and run throught near by forrest. However with shit on shit and general ignore of my top function/needs by my parents and education system I have become quite alienated and therefore now I am crawling back into normal life because I am feeling trapped. it is just that I have no idea what to do with my determination in a way that it isn't often negative in its social impact. I can quiet down things or not be there in the first place, however both can be quite dissatisfactory solutions even if I am doing exactly that for decades.

When I unleash it all out without censorship every scenario basically ends like this ...

Your score = 88 % Type A

You seem to have a Type A personality. Type A personality is characterized by an exaggerated sense of time urgency, competitiveness, anger and hostility. People who share certain characteristics with you are often concerned with the acquisition of objects and generally dissatisfied with the world, including oneself. You don't know how and when to relax. People probably get tense around you, and they tend to feel threatened in your presence. Continuous stress and allowing unexpressed feelings to pile up are not good for your health. You should start learning how to relax, to let go, and enjoy life. Work on your communication skills. Try to take it easy and be lazy sometimes. It might be hard and it would take some effort, but you certainly know how to pick up a challenge.

However letting go in my case often ends in complete apathy when I see how much people around me just don't care to make it right/functional. (you saw my other posts)


So I am simply wondering how did other body types solve these kinds of problems ?

I woul say focus on relaxing and visiting the data/concepts as much as you possibly can before the inferior Fi rears it head again. Take breathers, breaks. Know what doesnt trigger it and do that for your breathers, breaks. Its a slow process to change yourself. Find the good, focus on the good while working towards the bad. Patience with self is what i would say is the most important thing an ENTJ woupd need to work on. After patience withself comes patience with others.

Just my 2 cents based heavily on anger and personality type. I dont really know you all that well.

Work towards goals, and learn how to work through your emotions. They are nothing more then a personal opinion.

 

[á´…eparted]

I like [MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION] 's analogy of saying anger is change in your pocket that you can choose to spend it on what you want or need. It explains it well. Thougu since I am 1 that change tends to burn a hole in your wallet so there isna constant need to be on a budget or else


Regardless, if I didn' have my anger, I honestly wouldn't know what to do with myself. It is a lot of my drive for why I do the things that I do, and it is an important tool that helps me solve problems. I feel like I would be a doormat and lazy without it.

Ironically enough, I didn't regard myself as an angry person until a few years ago. Granted some of it was due to being bipolar and meds have taken the edge off a bunch, but it is still there.

I sort of experience a parallel, I tend to find myself friends with a bunch of Te people. They are the ones who help ground my anger. Sometimes it will fly into an irrational frenzy and I will be *convinced* it is rational. Fe users will tend to agree with me, Fi users will simply miss the point and likely make it worse, Ti usera usually won't even give it the time of day, but Te most frequently will go "Hard, calm your tits, here is what is actually going on". They also will usually put up with me going "RAHHHH I WILL NOT CALM DOWN", though sometimes requiring putting me in a metaphorical hedlock to do so.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I woul say focus on relaxing and visiting the data/concepts as much as you possibly can before the inferior Fi rears it head again. Take breathers, breaks. Know what doesnt trigger it and do that for your breathers, breaks. Its a slow process to change yourself. Find the good, focus on the good while working towards the bad. Patience with self is what i would say is the most important thing an ENTJ woupd need to work on. After patience withself comes patience with others.

Just my 2 cents based heavily on anger and personality type. I dont really know you all that well.

Work towards goals, and learn how to work through your emotions. They are nothing more then a personal opinion.

This is exactly what I am doing for the last 20 years and I am quite tired of it. I have a need to rock things up no matter what people will say, but if possible I will try not to go over the line.


Also I am not emotinally dramatic in my opinion (they don't know what is "really angry"), however from other peoples opinions I come as too direct and intense with very clear ideas what we could/should do. (at least by standards of my culture) Few times a day people say to me something like "calm down" and am never sure what that really means since I am calm, however I am determined/opinioned as well. What frustrates me since I always sense that other people just slow me down and in the end I try to avoid too much attachments. What actually ended with isolationism for the most part.


Thanks for good wishes anyway.

 

[miss fortune]

it's generally been my motivation to get better at things... anger at other people doing them in an illogical manner that makes no fucking sense and I KNOW that things can be done better (basically give me a little time and I can show exactly how good something can be if done in a more logical manner and with a little creativity)

my motivation to improve myself also comes from a similar place... anger at myself

I know when to bother and when not to by this point a lot better than I did when I was younger and would pick fights that were entirely unproductive, sometimes just to have someone or something to fight with... needless to say this did not always go particularly well with others or for myself

basically anger is a tool, whether it does good things or bad things depends on how you swing it

 

[Personality Analyst]

[MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION], I relate a lot to your post, particularly the liking violent stuff and also not being yourself around people because of that. I think the best way to integrate it socially is to channel it into beneficial pursuits, such as social justice advocacy groups or even get togethers with people that you share a common personal cause with. It would provide a context that would make it "socially acceptable" to express anger and assertiveness.

 

[Virtual ghost]

[MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION], I relate a lot to your post, particularly the liking violent stuff and also not being yourself around people because of that. I think the best way to integrate it socially is to channel it into beneficial pursuits, such as social justice advocacy groups or even get togethers with people that you share a common personal cause with. It would provide a context that would make it "socially acceptable" to express anger and assertiveness.

Yeah, but that is part of the problem since I am from the ex-communist country and therefore too much social justice advocacy isn't too desired. For example I live in the city where mayor has something like 170 affairs after him but people still vote for the guy. He even started a political party and entered the parliament ... and government as well. (just one random silly example out of hundreds of such examples)


I mean right now I am doing exactly what you are suggesting, however for our culture I am often simply too "detached" from mainstream and too determined when I see worthy goal. (however my standards in the normal country would probably be "just as it should be"). I mean I am ENTJ and quite unhappy with overal situation so maybe I should really listen to my heart/intuition and start a political party ... and do what you suggest. Ironically this is one of more sane options on the table. However people here are passive and uninterested in anything due to all the shit that happned. My generation is currently leaving the country is mass since this is no longer a place where you can live, despite the fact that we are almost in the middle of Europe.


I am trying to bypass problems of my country on this forum but every explanation and goal eventually gets stuck in the fact that I live in the socity that has so much stupid issues that this is surreal sight. Many people who moved out of the country claim that they have been reborn after that and believe them. Therefore I think I will stop posting this kind of threads since this comes as whining and all advices are already in force or they are hard/impossible to implement.

 

[Jeremy8419]

Anger isn't something that needs to be put under a typology lense. It's far too basic a part of life.

Anger is pent up energy and constricted ability to release it. Basically anything that releases energy reduces anger. A lot of the angry teenagers and young adults are simply ones who feel deterred from sports and exercise, but who need such outlets more than their peers. Find an outlet of energy, and go with it.

 

[á´…eparted]

Anger isn't something that needs to be put under a typology lense. It's far too basic a part of life.

Anger is pent up energy and constricted ability to release it. Basically anything that releases energy reduces anger. A lot of the angry teenagers and young adults are simply ones who feel deterred from sports and exercise, but who need such outlets more than their peers. Find an outlet of energy, and go with it.

Enneagram type 1's would say otherwise. In fact, anger is a CORNERSTONE of 1w9 and 1w2.

 

[Jeremy8419]

Enneagram type 1's would say otherwise. In fact, anger is a CORNERSTONE of 1w9 and 1w2.

Orrrrrr, you could just, you know, look at it from a normal perspective: You have too much energy, you get some activity.

 

[á´…eparted]

Orrrrrr, you could just, you know, look at it from a normal perspective: You have too much energy, you get some activity.

You clearly don't understand what 1's are about. You do not know better than what the theory says.

Besides, I already do that.

 

[ceecee]

Anger isn't something that needs to be put under a typology lense. It's far too basic a part of life.

Anger is pent up energy and constricted ability to release it. Basically anything that releases energy reduces anger. A lot of the angry teenagers and young adults are simply ones who feel deterred from sports and exercise, but who need such outlets more than their peers. Find an outlet of energy, and go with it.

Yes because only teenagers and young adults have anger and they can just walk/run it off. And you're a INFJ 9, correct? I don't even want to hear from one of you about anger.

 

[Jeremy8419]

Yes because only teenagers and young adults have anger and they can just walk/run it off. And you're a INFJ 9, correct? I don't even want to hear from one of you about anger.

Actually, that advice is from an ISTJ 6.

I'm supposing you haven't tried this? Even jocks get the "run it off" when they get roid rage.

You are a female, yes? I tell female INTJs with this issue that either they need a form of physical activity, or to just go to the gym and exercise their frustrations out. Thus far, all that have done so thanked me.

 

[Jeremy8419]

You clearly don't understand what 1's are about. You do not know better than what the theory says.

Besides, I already do that.

Mental, or physical? Try the other. Brain and body should each get a healthy dose of fatigue regularly.

 

[á´…eparted]

Mental, or physical? Try the other. Brain and body should each get a healthy dose of fatigue regularly.

I get both. I am well aware of my needs. Regardless, I am still a 1 and it by no means implies that I do not get enough

 

[ceecee]

Actually, that advice is from an ISTJ 6.

I'm supposing you haven't tried this? Even jocks get the "run it off" when they get roid rage.

You are a female, yes? I tell female INTJs with this issue that either they need a form of physical activity, or to just go to the gym and exercise their frustrations out. Thus far, all that have done so thanked me.

I've played sports for 40 years and exercise regularly, I don't need assistance in this area. You're clearly not grasping that anger is more than mental and physical energy.

 

[Jeremy8419]

I've played sports for 40 years and exercise regularly, I don't need assistance in this area. You're clearly not grasping that anger is more than mental and physical energy.

Which is why I tried to subtly reference sexual energy...

 

[Jeremy8419]

I get both. I am well aware of my needs. Regardless, I am still a 1 and it by no means implies that I do not get enough

You sure you aren't confusing anger with anxiety?