[Traditional Enneagram] Please help me: 7w8 or counterphobic 6

[pinkgraffiti]

[MENTION=6971]21%[/MENTION] [MENTION=1493]alcea rosea[/MENTION] [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] [MENTION=19700]Anaximander[/MENTION] [MENTION=19964]Avalon[/MENTION] [MENTION=4510]BAJ[/MENTION] [MENTION=4883]Cimarron[/MENTION] [MENTION=1009]CzeCze[/MENTION] [MENTION=18820]Dancing_Queen[/MENTION] [MENTION=14458]earthtrekker1775[/MENTION] [MENTION=25694]evilrubberduckie[/MENTION] [MENTION=857]FDG[/MENTION] [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] [MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION] [MENTION=15773]greenfairy[/MENTION] [MENTION=4644]Habba[/MENTION] [MENTION=11809]Hive[/MENTION] [MENTION=16139]Honor[/MENTION] [MENTION=179]iwakar[/MENTION] [MENTION=5489]King sns[/MENTION] [MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION] [MENTION=15004]Mia.[/MENTION] [MENTION=10408]Nicki[/MENTION] [MENTION=10625]Omission1234[/MENTION] [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] [MENTION=10714]Qlip[/MENTION] [MENTION=23098]Rico[/MENTION] [MENTION=5143]Salomé[/MENTION] [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION] [MENTION=14363]Standuble[/MENTION] [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] [MENTION=4925]Take Five[/MENTION] [MENTION=1144]TenebrousReflection[/MENTION] [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION] [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] [MENTION=1894]WoodsWoman[/MENTION] [MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION] [MENTION=5356]Speed Gavroche[/MENTION] [MENTION=10780]Patches[/MENTION] [MENTION=360]prplchknz[/MENTION] [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] [MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] [MENTION=13589]Mal12345[/MENTION] [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] [MENTION=7]Bellflower[/MENTION] [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION] [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] [MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION] [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] [MENTION=10714]Qlip[/MENTION] [MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION]

So...I'm wondering about my type. I've always thought I was a type 7, but today I was reflecting on a couple of things and wondered whether I might be a 6 instead.

So, I'm pretty sure I am a reactive type, so I'm either a 7w8 or a counterphobic 6(w7).

Why I think I'm a 7:
- I highly value freedom and have in fact led my life in that sense.
- I also value equality in all my relationships, I don't want to boss people around but I don't want to be bossed either.
- I need variety and to try different things. I am hedonistic in the way that I do things, all things, for pleasure, I need to get pleasure out of everything I am doing. As a child I'd always follow the rule: first play, then work. I still do.
- I am super curious about the world. And people. I love talking to strangers. As a child I loved looking at people on public transportation and imagining being each one of them and how my life would be and how I'd feel.
- This is why I have since living in various countries. And learned many languages. And changed multiple jobs. My favorite character in history is Leonardo da Vinci, I love the idea of knowing a bit of everything, I don't particularly want to specialize. My goal is to experience as much as the world as possible, I want to form a big picture in my mind of what the world is and all the experiences I can get from it.

Why I think I might be a 6:
- I am dependent on other people to validate my emotions. That means, I know I have emotions, but I constantly need to talk to friend or SO to be sure that I have the right to feel how I am feeling and am not overstepping or being selfish or inconsiderate. This could be related to low Fi and to having been raised by a narcissist Fe-dominant mother who taught me that having my own emotions was equal to being selfish, and that I should accommodate hers. It made her very insecure about the way I experience things.
- Similarly, I'm also insecure about making decisions. I always second guess things and again always have to ask people I trust about their opinions on my choices.
- I really need stability and to feel at "home". This is the biggest problem for me I think. I guess this is another consequence of having been raised by a narcissist mother and abusive father, for me the concept of "home" is really shaky, I always feel "temporary" or have anxiety and need to feel safe and protected. And reassured by loved ones (SO or friends). This is of course not doable and something I am trying to work on.

7w8 vs. counter phobic 6:
- I have anger reactions sometimes. I don't know if they're related to an 8 wing or a counterphobic 6. I feel anger when I am disrespected, or when people invade my personal space. Or when I trust someone and "let them in" and then they betray my trust and stumble on my feelings. That anger manifests by me enumerating in a very Te-way why the person made me angry and why their behavior is unfair. Of course, I do this in an angry tone LOL And this lasts 2 minutes maximum. After that I feel great and totally forget what the problem was.
- With bosses and authority figures, where I am not able to express my anger, it comes off as anxiety. I have anxiety connected to movement. That means, when I feel anxious, I have to keep moving, be it walking or driving. I just can't stand still.

That's it. Comments please? I feel a bit naked now

 

[Captain_Invincible]

[MENTION=13377]pinkgraffiti[/MENTION] - Thanks for the tag. I'm subbing now, but will reply in detail later (over the weekend I hope) =)

 

[Starry]

...having been raised by a narcissist Fe-dominant mother who taught me that having my own emotions was equal to being selfish, and that I should accommodate hers.

I'm going to "take a stab in the dark" here and say...

7w6cp sx/sp 748

 

[Masokissed]

Just a theory, but maybe 7w8s come off as 6s and 8s more than a 7 with an actual 6 wing would because we're more serious and pushing. I've thought myself a 6 before, too, but I really don't have as much anxiety as one. I'm naturally even-tempered, but I still have a deep anxiety in me that stirs and reacts to bad outside events. So, yeah, I'm "reactive" (whatever the fuck that means, cuz everyone's reactive.) and maybe that's sixy (lol) but the anxiety is what differs. 6s anxiety is about security but really every head type and really most types have anxiety about security but what makes them secure is different.

For me, my anxiety comes from not having what I want, from having a cheap knockoff brand of chocolate when I wanted something better, then getting sick from that shitty, shitty ass chocolate. I don't know if I can speak for 6s, but I know their anxiety is different. My anxiety drives me to look for my perfect chocolate and try to cure my sickness and make up for the chocolate with anything else if I can't find the right chocolate.... all at once. And a 6 I knew thinks this is weird. They don't want the most out of life like me; they just want the most security. I've been mad at that 6 cuz they don't see the point of doing all the things I want to do with me.... She got mad at me because she didn't find the security she wanted in me.

I'm a pretty loyal person and I like shoot my emotions through people, too. This is not a 6 thing. This is a human thing. 7s are... so, so more human than some like to imagine. Anger is human. Moving from anxiety is hallmark 7. Authority anxiety is definitely a sixy thing. 6s and 7s both don't like authority but 6s are more anxious about it while 7s (esp. 7w8s) just don't like them. And needing that home of stability is another thing both will want but differently. 7s want to to find a paradise where they can be happy forever and call it home.

That's all I have for now, but I agree with [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]. 7w6

 

[pinkgraffiti]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] [MENTION=24829]Masokissed[/MENTION] (I like your name )


Thanks! Except I know a couple of 7w6 and they are generally more happy-go-lucky than me.

I am somewhat more serious (although I can also goof around, I guess I'm both). I'm also very headstrong (and weak hearted), and will see everything I put my mind to as a challenge. If I want something, I know I'm going to get it, and I wont stop till I do. I am more persistent that other people.

I am also more pragmatic and organized than my 7w6 ENFP friends. I plan things I advance and become proficient at everything I set my mind to. I have a nice CV to show for it (and the same time, I couldn't give a shit about being good at something - my drive is not success like a 3 would, but more the ability to find ways to have money and thus continue to have freedom and independence to do what I want and explore what I want).

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] [MENTION=24829]Masokissed[/MENTION] (I like your name )


Thanks! Except I know a couple of 7w6 and they are generally more happy-go-lucky than me.

I am somewhat more serious (although I can also goof around, I guess I'm both). I'm also very headstrong (and weak hearted), and will see everything I put my mind to as a challenge. If I want something, I know I'm going to get it, and I wont stop till I do. I am more persistent that other people.

I am also more pragmatic and organized than my 7w6 ENFP friends. I plan things I advance and become proficient at everything I set my mind to. I have a nice CV to show for it (and the same time, I couldn't give a shit about being good at something - my drive is not success like a 3 would, but more the ability to find ways to have money and thus continue to have freedom and independence to do what I want and explore what I want).

When you first arrived here I was doubtful of your ENFP status but I think you are passable and so just stopped thinking of it. How do you test?

What are the chances you are 8w7? 6w5? (Not 6w7)

 

[pinkgraffiti]

When you first arrived here I was doubtful of your ENFP status but I think you are passable and so just stopped thinking of it. How do you test?

What are the chances you are 8w7? 6w5? (Not 6w7)

I don't know, you tell me..! And why were you doubtful of me being an ENFP? What else would you see me as?

 

[Starry]

I don't know, you tell me..! And why were you doubtful of me being an ENFP? What else would you see me as?

I honestly don't know how to explain it in any other way than to go all "high iq ravenclaw" on you with this technical response "you're not hitting all the notes"...but you're hitting enough of the notes and are not presenting yourself as *the most mature and healthy ENFP to have ever existed* while doling out relationship advice that will only work in Fe-neverland...I had no reason to consider it.

And I'll tell you I'm not sure either way for my opinion...perhaps you are ENFP but there are other members here that at the very least seem more like you...hold on

 

[uumlau]

Focus on how you disintegrate. Do you have a 7's problems? Or do you have a 6's problems? Personality-wise, Ne is going to map to a "type 7" personality. But personality traits aren't really what determines type - rather, type generates tendencies to a particular personality. So you could have an "Ne personality" and a "type 6" set of coping mechanisms, for example.

 

[Duffy]

OP vibes more 6w7 to me. I do acknowledge parental upbringing can have a noticeable impact on the innate personality.

I have a 7 friend I like to use as reference whenever 7-ish topics arise. He can be just as rebellious, testing & baiting, or classically anxious about stuff (whenever his autonomy is threatened). The key characteristics that put him in the 7 camp is his impulsiveness, overestimation of abilities, and general obviousness to how people receive him (this could be social-last indicative). I feel 6s are more aware of how they are standing apart from people, and react in response to this. I've noticed a tendency for for them to overstate their quirkiness and "weirdness," albeit the FJ variety especially. Standing apart registers loudly to them.

For me, my anxiety comes from not having what I want, from having a cheap knockoff brand of chocolate when I wanted something better, then getting sick from that shitty, shitty ass chocolate. I don't know if I can speak for 6s, but I know their anxiety is different. My anxiety drives me to look for my perfect chocolate and try to cure my sickness and make up for the chocolate with anything else if I can't find the right chocolate.... all at once. And a 6 I knew thinks this is weird. They don't want the most out of life like me; they just want the most security. I've been mad at that 6 cuz they don't see the point of doing all the things I want to do with me.... She got mad at me because she didn't find the security she wanted in me.[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]. 7w6

Great post. This is what 7s and 4s have in common despite being on opposite sides of the clock > constant frustration, perpetual never enoughs.

 

[Starry]

One of the things that is difficult with you is how changeable you are. I mean, you're in the right e-place ...6w5, 7w6, 7w8 or 8w7... But like you have a lot of contradictions. Which is entirely normal it's just that you are contradictory with a lot of the stuff a person uses to type. Like you start this thread with obvious e6 sentiment...and then a couple of posts down...all those e6 indicators get cancelled out with a post of all e8 indicators. Again, not that you won't have both in you...I do. But usually not so equally with the defining either/or indicators.

With individuals like you it's like you really need one piece of the puzzle before solving for the other because you need to truly understand how you mean these things. For example when you say "you want a lot of reassurance" now I'm starting to rule out 8...not because 8s don't want reassurance but there's no way in fuck they will say that out loud or in writing...and that's if they've evolved to a place where they have an awareness and are not still projecting their own needs onto others and caring for those others instead. Now, evolved 8s will admit to having human needs just like everyone else but usually not with the same level of emo as you. How many evolved feeler 8s do you know though?

Unlike what you've hit on with 6 and 8...the reasons you list for 7 are not necessarily defining...at least here. A desire for adventure, etc. Variety...these are common to 6 and 8 too.


Edit: I should say that my phone died and I did a restore content prior to reading the new posts from uumlau and Duffy.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

LOL come on [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] Im sorry for being contradictory. But who isn't? I'm starting to thing the enneagram is bullshit.
Anyway, I just don't see myself in the disintegration points of type 6. At all. It's like - becoming competitive? Nope. And the opposite, I'm supposed to be healthy when at peace (9)? Nope. I'm happiest when I'm active and juggling multiple projects at once. When I change my day or things happen that I didn't expect and my day ends in a matter that I didn't predict.
Does this mean Im a 7w6?? But I just don't see myself in the happy-go-lucky description of this subtype. And where do I put my anger-type personality? Just so confusing....

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] I was thinking maybe there are questions I can answer that would help you help me? Wasn't there someone that asked for help typing but replying to answers!?

 

[Starry]

LOL come on [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] Im sorry for being contradictory. But who isn't? I'm starting to thing the enneagram is bullshit.
Anyway, I just don't see myself in the disintegration points of type 6. At all. It's like - becoming competitive? Nope. And the opposite, I'm supposed to be healthy when at peace (9)? Nope. I'm happiest when I'm active and juggling multiple projects at once. When I change my day or things happen that I didn't expect and my day ends in a matter that I didn't predict.
Does this mean Im a 7w6?? But I just don't see myself in the happy-go-lucky description of this subtype. And where do I put my anger-type personality? Just so confusing....

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] I was thinking maybe there are questions I can answer that would help you help me? Wasn't there someone that asked for help typing but replying to answers!?

Dude, I love you because you are contradictory! And I mean that so massively (you know I do you living-breathing-ball-of-interesting. Also, people that are easy to type? *yawn*)

What you said about 6 pathways was kinda interesting to me though and I hope you don't write it off just yet. Sit with it a little longer because when you dismissed 9 integration by saying...
I'm happiest when I'm active and juggling multiple projects at once... <-Thats happy, healthy 9 right there (7s are supposed to slow the fuck down and give reflection a try). Letting go of bullshit and being in the moment with purpose is the Peacemaker. 9 integration isn't about going to sleep for a thousand years. It's being awake and grounded and unafraid. Connected, present, mindful and yes, engaged. Not saying you are a 6 but that you have given reason to consider it further not rule it out.


I'll just tell you that you sometimes remind me a little of [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] which is probably one of the biggest compliments typoc could ever manifest. She's pure gold.

And I will return very soon here...

 

[Masokissed]

Dude, I love you because you are contradictory! And I mean that so massively (you know I do you living-breathing-ball-of-interesting. Also, people that are easy to type? *yawn*)

What you said about 6 pathways was kinda interesting to me though and I hope you don't write it off just yet. Sit with it a little longer because when you dismissed 9 integration by saying...
I'm happiest when I'm active and juggling multiple projects at once... <-Thats happy, healthy 9 right there (7s are supposed to slow the fuck down and give reflection a try). Letting go of bullshit and being in the moment with purpose is the Peacemaker. 9 integration isn't about going to sleep for a thousand years. It's being awake and grounded and unafraid. Connected, present, mindful and yes, engaged. Not saying you are a 6 but that you have given reason to consider it further not rule it out.


I'll just tell you that you sometimes remind me a little of [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] which is probably one of the biggest compliments typoc could ever manifest. She's pure gold.

And I will return very soon here...

So how would a 7 integrating to 5 differentiate from 4 to 1? Both slow down, yes?

 

[á´…eparted]

Based on what's been said so far I lean much more to 7w6 than 7w8.

 

[Mole]

[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION]

Comments please? I feel a bit naked now.

Neither astrology nor mbti are based on evidence and reason, rather they induce a trance where our critical minds go to sleep and we become suggestible.

When we are in emotional pain, trance is an escape from our pain.

And our trance is strongly enhanced when we do it as part of group such as Typology Central.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I'm leaning toward 7w6 although I am curious to how a CP6 wing would look on this type. I will have to do more research on the specifics.
---

My SO is an ENFP 7w6, and he has quite a bit of trouble with anxiety. His 6 wing comes out in a constant background state of mental busy-ness.

While he avoids discomfort, he does nothing to diminish his anxiety by setting up safeguards like a phobic 6 would nor does he try to head anxiety off at the pass like a CP6 would.

So the anxiety isn't predominantly what is being avoided (phobic) or pre-emptively dealt with (CP) but the discomfort itself!

It doesn't care what is causing the discomfort/pain, the 7 only seeks to diminish those unpleasant feelings.

In a way, I can see how a 7 could confuse themselves with a lot of different types if they have issues with anxiety (6) or anger (1) but the 7 doesn't distinguish as all of those things can cause discomfort or pain for the 7 and that is intimately what is to be avoided and so they plunge into something that causes them to forget those things.

7's are good at treating symptoms and smoothing it over on the surface and not actually dealing with root issues. This is different than a lot of other E types, IMO. Which is why they can look superficial.

They are the kings/queens of "quick fixes". They are experts in emotional duct tape.

----

I will come back with more later. Interesting thread.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] I really thought about this, and read stuff and so on and I cannot be a 6. I mean, there's a lot of things I identify with, but my core motivation, my main aspects are not 6-like. I don't identify with famous 6w7, they are too nervous for me, I don't have all that nervous energy. And I don't identify with the description of the 6 as a child. It's just really that I identify with a lot of 6 things, but they aren't my main fear nor motivation. I am not cautions, Im super impulsive (lol) and I don't think about all the things that can go wrong, I'm imprudent I don't think before I do. My biggest fear is to be put in a room for hours with nothing to do. Like, lack of excitement scares the shit out of me.

I didn't even feel anxiety ever in my life until I was 24, which is when I had a major love disappointment and the world stopped making sense to me. Even then, my reaction to my anxiety was to always keep moving, I couldn't be still. Isn't that what a 7 would do? Before that age, I was really too imprudent and I never doubted myself and didn't care about other people's opinions at all. I never had anxiety, but I did experience anger episodes (mostly connected with one person, which was my father). Is it possible that I was 7w8 and then became 7w6 or even 6w7? Can the enneagram change during one's life?

In short: I'm whatever type Robbin Williams is. I really identify with that guy. I am not the type Ellen DeGeneres or Ellen Page are... too nervous and too much of a puppy, I'm more independent.

 

[uumlau]

I didn't even feel anxiety ever in my life until I was 24, which is when I had a major love disappointment and the world stopped making sense to me. Even then, my reaction to my anxiety was to always keep moving, I couldn't be still. Isn't that what a 7 would do? Before that age, I was really too imprudent and I never doubted myself and didn't care about other people's opinions at all. I never had anxiety, but I did experience anger episodes (mostly connected with one person, which was my father). Is it possible that I was 7w8 and then became 7w6 or even 6w7? Can the enneagram change during one's life?

I don't think Enneagram can change, but tritype kind of covers the bases of how different Enneagram types can appear to manifest from time to time. My main type is 9, but I can totally get into type 5 or type 3 modes of reacting from time to time. With 748, and your first anxiety arising from a romantic disappointment, that totally maps to the type 4 fix.

Moreover, if you keep track of gut vs head vs heart, the head center is associated with fear and anxiety is a kind of fear. So 5, 6, and 7 are all about fear. 5 handles fear by trying to be in control of one's life by isolating oneself and controlling one's local environment. 6 handles fear by being almost paranoid and taking many precautions. 7 handles fear by avoiding the sources of fear: the search for that which is new is underpinned by an anxiety/fear about that which is already familiar. If you handle fear/anxiety in a 7 way instead of a 6 way, that would make you a type 7.

Enneagram also provides for integration/disintegration, and those are the usual sources of changes. It is possible that you might be moving up or down that scale, and becoming more conscious of feelings of anxiety arises from that. I can't tell based on your descriptions which it might be, though, and it's kind of only up to you to determine that for yourself. If you feel like you're becoming more aware of anxiety AND feeling more helpless about it, that might be disintegration. If you are becoming more aware of your anxieties precisely because you need to be aware of them in order to handle them, then that would represent integration. That's a fairly broad brush, but I hope it helps you resolve your riddle.

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] I really thought about this, and read stuff and so on and I cannot be a 6. I mean, there's a lot of things I identify with, but my core motivation, my main aspects are not 6-like. I don't identify with famous 6w7, they are too nervous for me, I don't have all that nervous energy. And I don't identify with the description of the 6 as a child. It's just really that I identify with a lot of 6 things, but they aren't my main fear nor motivation. I am not cautions, Im super impulsive (lol) and I don't think about all the things that can go wrong, I'm imprudent I don't think before I do. My biggest fear is to be put in a room for hours with nothing to do. Like, lack of excitement scares the shit out of me.

I didn't even feel anxiety ever in my life until I was 24, which is when I had a major love disappointment and the world stopped making sense to me. Even then, my reaction to my anxiety was to always keep moving, I couldn't be still. Isn't that what a 7 would do? Before that age, I was really too imprudent and I never doubted myself and didn't care about other people's opinions at all. I never had anxiety, but I did experience anger episodes (mostly connected with one person, which was my father). Is it possible that I was 7w8 and then became 7w6 or even 6w7? Can the enneagram change during one's life?

In short: I'm whatever type Robbin Williams is. I really identify with that guy. I am not the type Ellen DeGeneres or Ellen Page are... too nervous and too much of a puppy, I'm more independent.

Yah, I don't think you are a 6w7 and didn't include it in the types I listed as possibilities which [MENTION=7134]mas[/MENTION]sokissed questioned. My understanding of e6 is more Tom Condon (a cp6 himself) less whatever everyone else likes to refer to (?) and I should reveal myself as a real minority in this regard. But it gets weirder...

While what you say with regards to the 6w7 appears to reflect my own understanding of it... and is precisely why I didn't even consider it for you (6w7s use manipulation to get their needs met and yet I see you as being very straightforward and honest)...I absolutely believe Robbin Williams was an ESFJ 6w7.

The short of it is our wings emerge around early adulthood. The fact you say your first anxiety attack occurred at 24...basically I'm once again confident you're a 7w6. Haven't you read all the threads where we've ( typoc 7w6s) have talked about this phenomenon? Feeling like all things are possible in life until right around the time you are finally old enough to go out and make it all happen...and then you get side-swiped by the e6 train...

I had my first panic-attack at age 20...but as luck would have it...thought I was dying of a heart condition for a couple of years until properly informed. Good times.

Robbins Williams spent his entire childhood in a fearful, depressed state and only became "confident" as an adult after discovering he had the gift of comedy...(or after his 7 wing hit)

The good news though is most people type Williams as 7w6...so you've got your bases covered either way... The powerhouse qualities you describe though...being unstoppable in the face of a challenge...all of that completely throws me. I'm in no way ruling out 7w6...but I've never encountered or read a 7w6 describe themselves in that way...only 8 winged 7s. I mean, I'm 7w6cp w/an 8 fix and I can be stopped by a change in the light breeze. I have to have a cause that involves humans and wrongs that need righting so that cp6 engages <-then I'm unstoppable. But in no way do I have the discipline to rise to the "I will make a lot of money so I can be free" challenge. So now I kinda feel like you're bragging about yourself. (haha)



Edit: Okay, I just caught something that changes the game for me. You indicated you first experienced anxiety at age 24...but under conditions that would cause anyone to feel anxiety. The common experience that I'm describing for 6 wing emergence in 7w6s is the anxiety is unexplainable because the individual isn't going through a negative/bad time. The 7w6 doesn't know what the hell is going on so...

I'm back to having no clue. Ill bow out here and let you converse with the experts.