[Traditional Enneagram] Idealized self-image and type 4

[hjgbujhghg]

Dear 4s, how much do you relate to your idealized self image? How important this image is for you? How important is it for you to reach your ideal? Are you your ideal?

 

[Forever]

Well my image is to be someone special and remarkable but treated as an equal. Unfortunately in real life I look like an outcast or an edgy teen. Which I'm like none of those lol.

I realized my image of getting my hair messed up was to want to adapt to the band scene of music that I liked a lot in middle school. The problem was is that I didn't have musical prowess to play a guitar and rock the look so I was more ridiculed.

If 4's realize that while they can make a unique contribution to the world and realize that they share a lot more in common with everyone else. They can grow and produce artful works appealing to both everyone and themselves.

I often felt melancholic because I was so fixed on this band/rocker image that nobody wanted to accept me for who I was and what I liked.

That was until I came to realized not by advice but by knowledge of how human group dynamics worked, I was too focused on the psychology of the individual. When people work together, they're happier than always being alone. I used to despise group and mass conformity like they were mindless. Now I see grouped people as a superorganism ready to achieve bigger goals and those in the group even feel larger in energy and in spirit.

That image was the most irrational thing to me because it looked so pleasing when all it was is an a illusion.

I know I am my own person anyway when I adapt to others looks, I realize I don't necessarily show myself to be myself.

 

[Dreamer]

I'm probably not a 4, but I definitely have this idealized version of myself, and it's frustrating for me because it's ever present and really, more a reminder of what I'm not, versus what I aspire to be. Definitely seen from a negative viewpoint, than a positive, let's work towards this ideal image sort of thing. I tend to look to others, mmm, not necessarily with envy, but I will look at strangers for one reason or another, see something in them that I feel I am lacking, and wish I had that quality of theirs, which I perceive them to have.

What bothers me most about this idealized version of myself, is that it is constantly changing and evolving, and no matter how much I actually improve, I can never obtain that version of me I so badly wish for.

The thing that leaves me thinking I am NOT a 4, is that I feel this is more a self-esteem issue, and in that case, everyone tends to nitpick themselves and wishes for more through this manifestation, it's nothing unique.

 

[Galena]

If I related to it too much, if it didn't feel far away - it wouldn't be my idealized self-image, now, would it be?

 

[hjgbujhghg]

I'm probably not a 4, but I definitely have this idealized version of myself, and it's frustrating for me because it's ever present and really, more a reminder of what I'm not, versus what I aspire to be. Definitely seen from a negative viewpoint, than a positive, let's work towards this ideal image sort of thing. I tend to look to others, mmm, not necessarily with envy, but I will look at strangers for one reason or another, see something in them that I feel I am lacking, and wish I had that quality of theirs, which I perceive them to have.

What bothers me most about this idealized version of myself, is that it is constantly changing and evolving, and no matter how much I actually improve, I can never obtain that version of me I so badly wish for.

The thing that leaves me thinking I am NOT a 4, is that I feel this is more a self-esteem issue, and in that case, everyone tends to nitpick themselves and wishes for more through this manifestation, it's nothing unique.

What you described sounds very 4-ish and I can relate a lot.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

If I related to it too much, if it didn't feel far away - it wouldn't be my idealized self-image, now, would it be?

3s have idealized image too, the difference is that most of them feel like they are their ideal self or at least feel very close to that even though reality might be different. If you perceive something to be close to you in your own subjective idea of the self it still can be an illusion or a distant idea to the objective reality.

 

[small.wonder]

I'm constantly failing my idealized self, doing her justice only on occasion-- and then it's real emotional and spiritual progress, which means embracing action. That's the funny thing, I think all that is required to step into the Idealized Self shoes is action. So so many times that I fail, or miss the boat, it's been because I let shame and fear keep me from actively standing up in my gifts. I'm literally just like, "oh, but no one will think that's good, so I won't put it out there", or "they don't need me, of all people, to contribute. So I won't." Instead, when I act and submit my work, or send the email, or ask the person to coffee, then my I'm living as my idealized self because I'm putting myself out there. And it's crazy, people actually don't reject me the way they do when I recluse and hamstring myself.

That's me anyway. Idealized self can be an unhealthy fantasy, but it can also be our realized purpose and potential-- all a 4 really wants, you know?

[MENTION=18559]Inis Mona[/MENTION] You might experience that differently, with a 3 wing. I'd be curious to hear. I guess I'd just assume the 3 component would make action not a trouble spot for you at all. For me, 5--->8 means action. For you, 3--->6 could mean focus on loyalty, honesty or honor?

Of course, 4--->1 kind of means action too. Or physical realization?

 

[hjgbujhghg]

I'm constantly failing my idealized self, doing her justice only on occasion-- and then it's real emotional and spiritual progress, which means embracing action. That's the funny thing, I think all that is required to step into the Idealized Self shoes is action. So so many times that I fail, or miss the boat, it's been because I let shame and fear keep me from actively standing up in my gifts. I'm literally just like, "oh, but no one will think that's good, so I won't put it out there", or "they don't need me, of all people, to contribute. So I won't." Instead, when I act and submit my work, or send the email, or ask the person to coffee, then my I'm living as my idealized self because I'm putting myself out there. And it's crazy, people actually don't reject me the way they do when I recluse and hamstring myself.

That's me anyway. Idealized self can be an unhealthy fantasy, but it can also be our realized purpose and potential-- all a 4 really wants, you know?

[MENTION=18559]Inis Mona[/MENTION] You might experience that differently, with a 3 wing. I'd be curious to hear. I guess I'd just assume the 3 component would make action not a trouble spot for you at all. For me, 5--->8 means action. For you, 3--->6 could mean focus on loyalty, honesty or honor?

Of course, 4--->1 kind of means action too. Or physical realization?

I am not very focused on loyalty, never been that way. 3 wing for me means that I more than other 4s strive to achieve success, to reach my goals and to be socially accepted for my work and my gifts.
There's a tension between my feelings of shame and social insecurity and my need to be noticed and exposed. I often go outside, talk to people, show my art, work, music, get attention while feeling shame and insecurity and fight with low self confidence while performing or interacting with people. It doesn't stop me from being active though.

It's like I want the spotlight so badly, but the light burns more than I can handle, I wish to escape the burning sensation but it's always too cold in the shadows.

 

[small.wonder]

I am not very focused on loyalty, never been that way. 3 wing for me means that I more than other 4s strive to achieve success, to reach my goals and to be socially accepted for my work and my gifts.
There's a tension between my feelings of shame and social insecurity and my need to be noticed and exposed. I often go outside, talk to people, show my art, work, music, get attention while feeling shame and insecurity and fight with low self confidence while performing or interacting with people. It doesn't stop me from being active though.

It's like I want the spotlight so badly, but the light burns more than I can handle, I wish to escape the burning sensation but it's always too cold in the shadows.

Yeah, I get what 4w3 looks like (and I think your experience is a great example of that). What I meant about loyalty is that the 3 component might integrate (integration=idealized self?)-- so your health points are 1 and 6. I've wrapped my mind around what my own integration points, together, look like, but hadn't thought about 4w3's. I know some people don't experience wing integration, though. I've always chalked mine up to having a really heavy wing.

I'm curious about your performance, shame thing, because I actually struggle with that too. I have pretty much my whole life, but generally could never get myself to volunteer my work/gifts. Until the last couple of years, anyway. I auditioned for a lead in a musical in the fall (I almost didn't) and got it-- doing that performance made such a difference for me, because I felt allowed to perform (since I got the part). Does that make sense? Idk, but I'd love to hear more about your own experiences there. So as not to derail, maybe a PM?