[Traditional Enneagram] Tell about something you know about enneagram 2.

[bradly00]

I know that I'm an enneagram 2 with a wing of 3. Tell me something about 2 that I do not know.

 

[geedoenfj]

I'm also 2w3 and I help people only when I feel like helping or it involves something that I'm personally interested in, I prefer that people help themselves, I have a sense of responsibility but don't necessarily trying to satisfy people or be up to their standards, although I wish I could be up to my own standards

 

[ZNP-TBA]

I don't know much about enneagram but I think e2 most correlated with Fe in Jungian typology.

 

[Captain_Invincible]

When e2 reaches unhealthy levels, users become the Overly Attached Girlfriend:

 

[Pionart]

1 and 3 wings and 4 and 8 intedisintegrals

 

[fetus]

We care immensely about being loved. Our main fear is of being unloved and unwanted.

We can very offbeat and dramatic, which are traits usually assigned to 4w3's. Introverted 2's can type as 4's at first.

I'd be happy to answer more questions.

Edit: [MENTION=27407]bradly00[/MENTION] I just realized that we are both SFJ, with the same tritype, just with different wings.

 

[small.wonder]

[MENTION=27407]bradly00[/MENTION] 2's tend to "help" and do things for others. They believe this is benevolent and out of "love" but at the core that's is a self deception. 2's actually serve and do good things for others because they believe it earns them love (or that they can only be loved if they are helpful). "I did this helpful thing for you, so now I deserve to be loved." The main issue with this thinking is that it makes love out to be transactional, and is rooted in shame-- 2's have self worth issues (as all of the heart types do) that they think they can solve by being "helpful" or good people. One main indicator of a type 2 is the reaction that happens when a 2 thinks they are "owed love" by someone they've helped-- resentment, anger and entitlement when the subject of their interest doesn't reciprocate. This of course is not how love really works, so many 2's live with a victim mentality, believing they are always wronged (when really, their view of love is skewed).

Health seeking 2's realize that their intrinsic value is not in what they do for others but in who they are as an individual (hence why they integrate to 4, The Individualist when healthy).

Here's some of my work on 2, if you are interested.

 

[bradly00]

[MENTION=27407]bradly00[/MENTION] 2's tend to "help" and do things for others. They believe this is benevolent and out of "love" but at the core that's is a self deception. 2's actually serve and do good things for others because they believe it earns them love (or that they can only be loved if they are helpful). "I did this helpful thing for you, so now I deserve to be loved." The main issue with this thinking is that it makes love out to be transactional, and is rooted in shame-- 2's have self worth issues (as all of the heart types do) that they think they can solve by being "helpful" or good people. One main indicator of a type 2 is the reaction that happens when a 2 thinks they are "owed love" by someone they've helped-- resentment, anger and entitlement when the subject of their interest doesn't reciprocate. This of course is not how love really works, so many 2's live with a victim mentality, believing they are always wronged (when really, their view of love is skewed).

Health seeking 2's realize that their intrinsic value is not in what they do for others but in who they are as an individual (hence why they integrate to 4, The Individualist when healthy).

Here's some of my work on 2, if you are interested.

Thank you for the information.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

[MENTION=27407]bradly00[/MENTION] 2's tend to "help" and do things for others. They believe this is benevolent and out of "love" but at the core that's is a self deception. 2's actually serve and do good things for others because they believe it earns them love (or that they can only be loved if they are helpful). "I did this helpful thing for you, so now I deserve to be loved." The main issue with this thinking is that it makes love out to be transactional, and is rooted in shame-- 2's have self worth issues (as all of the heart types do) that they think they can solve by being "helpful" or good people. One main indicator of a type 2 is the reaction that happens when a 2 thinks they are "owed love" by someone they've helped-- resentment, anger and entitlement when the subject of their interest doesn't reciprocate. This of course is not how love really works, so many 2's live with a victim mentality, believing they are always wronged (when really, their view of love is skewed).

Health seeking 2's realize that their intrinsic value is not in what they do for others but in who they are as an individual (hence why they integrate to 4, The Individualist when healthy).

Here's some of my work on 2, if you are interested.

I respectfully assert that this applies to unhealthy 2’s.

That healthy 2's can overcome this without morphing into 4's.

This link from the Enneagram Institute:

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-2/

Elucidates that at their worst 2’s are...possessive and unaware of their own needs. (A place I inhabited in the past, absolutely resulting in resentment). However, at their best are altruistic and unselfish. (Ongoing ‘work in progress’ as we all are, I do however relate to this now).

This site puts it well:

https://www.enneagram.net/type2.html

Giving with expectation is a veiled form of taking. True altruism is selfless. Spiritual growth will come to you when you can acknowledge your own needs and learn to give freely without expecting anything in return.

Experience, receptively encouraging feedback from loved ones and seeking clarity from professionals helped me to move beyond a ‘quid pro quo for kindness’ mentality into examining my motivations. Leading to = giving without expectation.

 

[small.wonder]

I respectfully assert that this applies to unhealthy 2’s.

That healthy 2's can overcome this without morphing into 4's.

This link from the Enneagram Institute:

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-2/

Elucidates that at their worst 2’s are...possessive and unaware of their own needs. (A place I inhabited in the past, absolutely resulting in resentment). However, at their best are altruistic and unselfish. (Ongoing ‘work in progress’ as we all are, I do however relate to this now).

This site puts it well:

https://www.enneagram.net/type2.html

Giving with expectation is a veiled form of taking. True altruism is selfless. Spiritual growth will come to you when you can acknowledge your own needs and learn to give freely without expecting anything in return.

Experience, receptively encouraging feedback from loved ones and seeking clarity from professionals helped me to move beyond a ‘quid pro quo for kindness’ mentality into examining my motivations. Leading to = giving without expectation.

Agreed, though the "dark side" (or stress prompted) behaviors are really the trademark traits of each type, and the Enneagram in general. Most Enneagram sources would pinpoint these traits at "average" health (for any type), it's like the stuff we always have to keep tabs on, or it'll just naturally happen. I have quite a many 2's in my life, and (like any other type and their respective issues) they tend to do things for approval on a pretty regular basis-- for each of us, regardless of type, "healthy" isn't really a place we can exist for very long at. I tend to use the term "health-focused" to describe people who are aware of their negative motivations daily, and check themselves. That's about as healthy as any of us can get, because there's maintenance involved.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

Agreed, though the "dark side" (or stress prompted) behaviors are really the trademark traits of each type, and the Enneagram in general. Most Enneagram sources would pinpoint these traits at "average" health (for any type), it's like the stuff we always have to keep tabs on, or it'll just naturally happen. I have quite a many 2's in my life, and (like any other type and their respective issues) they tend to do things for approval on a pretty regular basis-- for each of us, regardless of type, "healthy" isn't really a place we can exist for very long at. I tend to use the term "health-focused" to describe people who are aware of their negative motivations daily, and check themselves. That's about as healthy as any of us can get, because there's maintenance involved.

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that awareness > practically addressing core fears and motivations is imperative

'Healthiness' and ‘state of maintenance’ is an intriguing topic. I have recently been studying self-efficacy & mental health. Poring over data compiled from usage of the Mental Health Confidence Scale, Herth Hope Index, Community Living Scale, UCLA Loneliness scale etc…

The results point to complex, multi-faceted factors in personal awareness and paths to health. Including relationships among: symptoms, self-concept and social outcomes. Even folks devoted to the studies try to avoid generalizations, feeling more longitudinal data is required before firm conclusions can be reached.

It HAS been found that mental health systems that facilitate a person’s - fostering optimism, learning strategies for coping and advocating for personal needs - are most efficient.

Thus, my concern in giving emphasis to enneagram qualities one displays at one’s worst - over what is possible when one is in a “health-focused” state. (Enjoyed your phrasing there btw).

When preparing for travel I want to know possible pitfalls or dangers that may arise, certainly. But, I would not favour a guide-book that highlights those while downplaying the appeal of local fare, adventure, cuisine etc.

Although being a helper, my personal validation comes more from inward sense of self, than seeking approval from other’s. This was not always the case. Over time it has become my default state. Though I easily admit (as you stated) that I can back-slide in times of stress or duress.

I am a firm believer in loving openly. With a large part of the experience being: joy derived from one’s personal appreciation or value of the other person. To expect or feel entitled to reciprocation can only lead to disappointment. I agree that is indeed: a painful learning experience for a 2 who has yet to make the paradigm shift & continue to self-adjust.

 

[Roars]

they are very focused on helping others for better or worse

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't want to make another thread just for this.


I came across quite a number of times upon the statement that 2s are often very aggressive and dominering. However that is pretty much in contrast with being helper. (unless they completely collapse into 8)


Can anyone say something about this ?

 

[ceecee]

I don't want to make another thread just for this.


I came across quite a number of times upon the statement that 2s are often very aggressive and dominering. However that is pretty much in contrast with being helper. (unless they completely collapse into 8)


Can anyone say something about this ?

I've not found them to be aggressive. Domineering, yes. Nose in everyone else' business and free with advice about that, solicited or not, yes. And resentful to the core, which they deny and ignore until it goes kaboom. A healthy 2 is a good thing but an unhealthy one sucks balls. I think they can be dangerous and damaging to some people who get sucked in by this act. I have never seen a 2 stand up to real aggression and dominance, regardless of sex. I do think 2's and 8's are often a good match, when healthy but unhealthy is probably the enneagram worst case scenario.

 

[Punderstorm]

I'll you 2morrow.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Manipulative is the first word coming to my mind. Hysterical too.

Sorry for all types 2 I've only had the opportunity to meet dysfunctional ones

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I was advised by my enneagram teachers to have a look at the movie called "Bons baisers d'Hollywood".

Doris Mann (Shirley MacLaine) is the typical desintegrated 2.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I also wonder if some disintegrated 2 can be like disintegrated 7 and joke around, tell stories just to get people's attention. What it their attitude in those moments ?


I know they can become very dependant and ill (unconsciously) to receive that "love" they crave about.

I'm also very much interested about the 2 knowing themselves a bit, so please leave a comment, as I don't really get in touch with healthy two !

Actually.... Fe frightens me

Joking of course but... you are a breed I don't dare approaching that much...

 

[human101]

My mum is a 2, when she disintegrates her temper is ferocious. She's the sweetest most selfless person you can imagine but becomes immediately physically violent when stressed.

 

[Galena]

Not at all what you're looking for: I write stories, and my longest-running, most severe case of a recurring character (just with different faces) is a 2. My pet theory is that he is the figure of the older sibling I never had, with sprinklings of the animus. Or, a golem crafted from the kindness I've psychologically excised from my own self-concept. Because I'm working to get back in touch with that class of emotion, his best material may be yet to come. Tangential: if I didn't write as a kid, I'm not sure how much capacity for empathy I would have developed at all.