[Traditional Enneagram] 1 vs 3

[fetus]

Both are perfectionistic. Both can be extremely hardworking. I have trouble distinguishing the two. What are the differences?

I am trying to discover which type I lean more to, in order to find out my Enneagram wing. I feel very self-centered and embarrassed making yet another thread that ultimately comes back to myself, because I feel annoyed with people who are obsessed with type-me threads. Please know that I am not trying to make another of these threads (and I hope I don't come across as that way). I am not asking for your opinions on my type; I am asking for information on the two types so I can decide for myself. Self-discovery is fun. And I do have a strong interest in Enneagram, so all the better. Thanks.

Here are the 16 statements from the time in my life when I was a self-hating, compulsive perfectionist (I have since overcome it).


1. "If I'm not perfect, I will not live up to my family name."
2. "I have an unrealistic vision of an idealized self, and I need to be perfect to achieve it."
3. "I don't celebrate my achievements. I criticize myself for what I don't achieve."
4. "I'm tired of blaming myself, but I don't believe in blaming other people. I try to blame my perfectionism, but then I realize it's my fault after all."
5. "I am ruthless to myself when I fail. I am a bad person if I make a mistake, in any area of life."
6. "The only way to combat my lazy nature is to work myself to death."
7. "People were very hurtful to me when I was young, so I work to be perfect in order to prove to them that I have changed."
8. "If I want to achieve my dreams, I cannot make any mistakes."
9. "I have built my entire identity on the things I achieve. When I do not do these things perfectly, then I lose myself."
10. "All love is based on performance. If I perform perfectly, I will get more love than if I had not."
11. "My perfectionism is rooted in inferiority. I am naturally worse than other people, so I have to be perfect."
12. "Life is a ladder. Whenever I perform badly, I am knocked down a rung."
13. "I have to make up for all the years I didn't do well by being perfect."
14. "I need to prove to myself and the world that I can do well."
15. "I would rather have a false sense of accomplishment than a very real sense of failure."
16. "Being kind to myself leads to laziness. I must hate myself in order to do well."

I'm interested in which statements correlate with each type, because I feel like there are both in there.

 

[Tilt]

It's really more about the motivation behind the perfectionism. 3s want to project an ideal image while 1s want to do things correctly, properly out of a drive to uphold integrity. 3s are more focused on efficiency, pragmatism while 1s are more focused on making sure to do things the proper, right way however they define it. Both strive for competency.

You scream w1.

 

[Kullervo]

It's really more about the motivation behind the perfectionism. 3s want to project an ideal image while 1s want to do things correctly, properly out of a drive to uphold integrity. 3s are more focused on efficiency, pragmatism while 1s are more focused on making sure to do things the proper, right way however they define it. Both strive for competency.

This is a very good distinction.

E1: I must be competent to be morally consistent (gut focus)
E3: I must be competent to be attractive (image focus)

 

[á´…eparted]

One thing to bare in mind (and this is much more so for 1 as a wing), the perfectionism of E1 does not have to be outwardly directed.

 

[Virtual ghost]

1s are much more concrete, direct, principled and emotionally detached than typical 3s.

 

[Tilt]

1s are much more concrete, direct, principled and emotionally detached than typical 3s.

I would debate the bold. 3w4 is known as "the professional" for a reason. From my perspective, viewing things in terms of principles typically comes off as emotionally charged. It really depends on the wings and the individual.

 

[fetus]

I would debate the bold. 3w4 is known as "the professional" for a reason. From my perspective, viewing things in terms of principles is fairly emotionally charged. It really depends on the wings and the individual.

Did some more research, and I read that 3's detach from their emotions, and 1's suppress it.

And 3's are more concerned about people *seeing* them succeed...right?

 

[Tilt]

Did some more research, and I read that 3's detach from their emotions, and 1's suppress it.

And 3's are more concerned about people *seeing* them succeed...right?

yes. Pretty much. 1s to me are anything but "emotionally detached"... they may suppress anger but people around them can still it. 3s, on other hand, may come off more emotionally expressive but they basically conceal/detach from their true emotions... like a mask.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I would debate the bold. 3w4 is known as "the professional" for a reason. From my perspective, viewing things in terms of principles typically comes off as emotionally charged. It really depends on the wings and the individual.

Ok, that can perhaps be the case. After all I have 1w9 and 3w4 fixes a therefore I am biased when it come to this topic.

 

[thoughtlost]

Did some more research, and I read that 3's detach from their emotions, and 1's suppress it.

And 3's are more concerned about people *seeing* them succeed...right?

I am not sure about the top part. I know 3s that are pretty emotional. I know a 3, she isn't expressive with her emotions because her emotions are about her worrying about what people think about her. It's not something she wants to show. She looks "put together."

...Then of course, there are people like Tyra Banks... a super expressive 3 haha.

The last part I'd agree with from my experience. Whatever it is they do (it really doesn't matter what they do), they generally want to look good in the eyes of others (AND in their own eyes). I've noticed that my mom will whine about not looking good in front of others; she generally doesn't like being embarrassed/hates feeling shamed. She SAYS she hates bragging ...but she'll brag about things occassionally (not in a bad way) about being a good daughter to her mother, a good student, a good worker or just simply about being a good person.

 

[Tilt]

I am not sure about the top part. I know 3s that are pretty emotional. I know a 3, she isn't expressive with her emotions because her emotions are about her worrying about what people think about her. It's not something she wants to show. She looks "put together."

...Then of course, there are people like Tyra Banks... a super expressive 3 haha.

And that is the nuance.... But how close are you to the person? 3's will tend to show you a polished mask until they get close to you.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Btw OP to me sounds much more as w1 than w3.

 

[thoughtlost]

And that is the nuance.... But how close are you to the person? 3's will tend to show you a polished mask until they get close to you.

You see, that is what I am not sure of. She is a natural born mentor. She loves advising people, but in a personal way. She was my mentor for an internship that I did. She knows how to get to the "emotions" of things really quickly. She advises me based on who I am psychologically and not on things like my transcript or job experience. We talk about our relationships with our family, our relationships with professors, how we feel about our work and stuff. She advises me based on my mindset, feelings and psychological state.

She has a very personal style and will also share her "not shining" emotional experiences with me and how her health problems and how it relates to her feelings and work and stuff.... so I feel like either she really trusts me or she knows that is just how I connect with people and can adapt to that.


And wit the OP, it's hard. 2w1 sounds like it from the OP, but you'll have to look more broadly at your life. I also find that wings can be pretty hard to pin down until you look at the unspoken pattern of your life. I feel like words do me a disservice sometimes.

 

[KitchenFly]

Both are perfectionistic. Both can be extremely hardworking. I have trouble distinguishing the two. What are the differences?


Here are the 16 statements from the time in my life when I was a self-hating, compulsive perfectionist (I have since overcome it).


1. "If I'm not perfect, I will not live up to my family name."
2. "I have an unrealistic vision of an idealized self, and I need to be perfect to achieve it."
3. "I don't celebrate my achievements. I criticize myself for what I don't achieve."
4. "I'm tired of blaming myself, but I don't believe in blaming other people. I try to blame my perfectionism, but then I realize it's my fault after all."
5. "I am ruthless to myself when I fail. I am a bad person if I make a mistake, in any area of life."
6. "The only way to combat my lazy nature is to work myself to death."
7. "People were very hurtful to me when I was young, so I work to be perfect in order to prove to them that I have changed."
8. "If I want to achieve my dreams, I cannot make any mistakes."
9. "I have built my entire identity on the things I achieve. When I do not do these things perfectly, then I lose myself."
10. "All love is based on performance. If I perform perfectly, I will get more love than if I had not."
11. "My perfectionism is rooted in inferiority. I am naturally worse than other people, so I have to be perfect."
12. "Life is a ladder. Whenever I perform badly, I am knocked down a rung."
13. "I have to make up for all the years I didn't do well by being perfect."
14. "I need to prove to myself and the world that I can do well."
15. "I would rather have a false sense of accomplishment than a very real sense of failure."
16. "Being kind to myself leads to laziness. I must hate myself in order to do well."

I'm interested in which statements correlate with each type, because I feel like there are both in there.

Both can be extremely hardworking. I have trouble distinguishing the two. What are the differences?

Type's 3's and 6's and 9's are primary types and they have subsidiary wings. The two type three's have a Point:5 and Point:1 as there two subsidiary wings.

Types's 1's, 2's, 4's, 5's, 7's, and 8's are secondary types and they don't have subsidiary wings like the primary types do.

The primary types are more aware off and place more consideration upon the three primary actions of considering the inner actions of Sensing from the hart centre (type three's), Feeling from the head centre (type six's), relating from the gut centre (type nine's) when taking others action into consideration.

We're as the secondary types are more focused on primarily negotiating via actualising via projecting via the three influential drives of supper ego negotiating via 1's and 2's, Id 4's and 5's, ego 7's and 8's.

The sets of variations overlap because Points 3, 7, and 8 belong primarily to the ego drive. Points 6, 1, and 2 belong primarily to the supper ego drive. And Points 9, 4, and 5 belong primarily to the Id drive.

1. "If I'm not perfect, I will not live up to my family name."
The line between 1 and 7 at the instinctive level. type:3 Sp/So.

2. "I have an unrealistic vision of an idealized self, and I need to be perfect to achieve it."
Fe -- Si -- Ne

3. "I don't celebrate my achievements. I criticize myself for what I don't achieve."
Line 1 to 4 at the instinctive level.

4. "I'm tired of blaming myself, but I don't believe in blaming other people. I try to blame my perfectionism, but then I realize it's my fault after all."
Sp Point:1 /So Point:8 relate thing Point:9. Line 3 to 9.

5. "I am ruthless to myself when I fail. I am a bad person if I make a mistake, in any area of life."
Line between Points 4 and 2. Self-Image Point:3.

6. "The only way to combat my lazy nature is to work myself to death."
Influence of subsidiary wings 5 and 1 lines between 5-7 and 1-4 influenced by Point of stress Point:9.

7. "People were very hurtful to me when I was young, so I work to be perfect in order to prove to them that I have changed."
Wings 2 and 4.

8. "If I want to achieve my dreams, I cannot make any mistakes."
SP -Self Preservation, Instinctual energy.

9. "I have built my entire identity on the things I achieve. When I do not do these things perfectly, then I lose myself."
Sp/So/Sx losing the balance from inner completeness of the team work Instinctual triangle Points (-2-5- the Instinctual triangle preferred is The Personal (-1-7-4-).

10. "All love is based on performance. If I perform perfectly, I will get more love than if I had not."
Possibly 3w2w4 energy. Counterbalancing overcompensation from the inner Sp/Sx/So energy.

11. "My perfectionism is rooted in inferiority. I am naturally worse than other people, so I have to be perfect."
Mood wing, - Point:4.

12. "Life is a ladder. Whenever I perform badly, I am knocked down a rung."
Sx from Sp/So/Sx (Sx/sense/Sp) seesaw Points:4/3/2.

13. "I have to make up for all the years I didn't do well by being perfect."
So from Sp/So/Sx (So/feel/Sx) seesaw Points:7/6/5.

14. "I need to prove to myself and the world that I can do well."
Point: 3 - The passion.

15. "I would rather have a false sense of accomplishment than a very real sense of failure."
The Passion at Point:3 Deceit.

16. "Being kind to myself leads to laziness. I must hate myself in order to do well."
Ne-Se

 

[Bush]

Well, I happen to know a 3 pretty well. Some genuinely do. Some others think they might, but they're seeing whatever side they need to see.

This particular 3..

• has absolutely no qualms about cutting corners at times.
• is notorious for breaking or skirting around rules for his/her family's needs.
• sees virtue as a tool (or a mere guide toward self improvement--they're not all bad people) than as a given
• can hide, say, rage with a pretty good poker face.. and maybe slam his fist against a cabinet on his own time.
• has mistyped about 18 times in an effort to figure out "what the hell --", which is pretty impressive because there are only 16 types. (They might be working on #19.)

Okay, okay. These are exaggerations. But they're more true than not true.

 

[Tilt]

Well, I happen to know a 3 pretty well. Some genuinely do. Some others think they might, but they're seeing whatever side they need to see.

This particular 3..

• has absolutely no qualms about cutting corners at times.
• is notorious for breaking or skirting around rules for his/her family's needs.
• sees virtue as a tool (or a mere guide toward self improvement--they're not all bad people) than as a given
• can hide, say, rage with a pretty good poker face.. and maybe slam his fist against a cabinet on his own time.
• has mistyped about 18 times in an effort to figure out "what the hell --", which is pretty impressive because there are only 16 types. (They might be working on #19.)

Okay, okay. These are exaggerations. But they're more true than not true.

Can relate 100% to all the points... I bend the rules using technicalities and cut corners... but didn't want to imply 3s were immoral so I put pragmatic/efficient.

 

[fetus]

So 1's can still be concerned with how they come across or proving their worth? But just more moralistic?

 

[Ursa]

So 1's can still be concerned with how they come across or proving their worth? But just more moralistic?

1s may carry that concern; only inasmuch as it helps them "correct" the perceived corruption in whatever system they've set their crosshairs on. Due to their basic desire to be incorruptible and their orientation towards society, however, 1s can even be iconoclastic in their criticisms, which is what I think a 3 would wish to avoid (unless they believe that reputation is attractive). 3s may care about morals because they may believe that personality will accrue social points as a "success."

1s, at bottom, want to be incorruptible; to correct corruption. 3s, bottom line, want approval and to be seen as a success. Essentially, what matters is each type's most basic motivation or what each type considers the ultimate intrinsic reward.

I read somewhere that it's important to keep this in mind, because a person can behave like another type, but the behavior can actually be intended to serve another type's need. This indicates the latter is the type that person probably is.

You seem like a 2w1 to me.

 

[Bush]

Can relate 100% to all the points... I bend the rules using technicalities and cut corners... but didn't want to imply 3s were immoral so I put pragmatic/efficient.

Typical 3 twisting failures into successes

 

[Tilt]

Typical 3 twisting failures into successes

In the famous words of my good 3w2 friend, "I never fail at anything. “