[Traditional Enneagram] How do I tell if I'm a 6 or an 8?

[miss fortune]

I agree with this. Most of the time, authority isn't something I even acknowledge.

SO true


also another point related to this... my boss is a 6 and I'm an 8 and it makes for some interesting comparisons... when something goes wrong my first impulse is to go and fix it in the most direct manner possible, protocol be damned, that problem is getting fixed and dealing with higher ups who may question my actions can be done after I've fixed the problem and their questions will merely be answered with "well, it's fixed isn't it?"

he is always a bit concerned about protocol and making sure that we have the permission to follow that path of action and will be trying to contact someone to get permission while I'm off actively working on the problem to fix it, he'll support my actions but be nervous about what the bigger bosses will say about me taking action without permission... he respects/fears authority while I rarely consider it

 

[Thalassa]

I read type was inborn. I bet the answer lies somewhere in the middle. My 7 friend came from a very abusive background, and can seem 6/8-ish. This can conveniently be attributed to his wings, or perhaps, it's simply the type of upbringing which creates violent and anxious tendencies, and can seem 6/8-ish. Whatever it is, what's striking about him is how 7-ish he is despite of.... all that impulsivity, floundering about, craving, and consuming.

Jungian type is more likely inborn, like MBTI, Keirsey....enneagram in my understanding is more related to environment and reaction to it. Yes a person can react to an abusive environment by fleeing anything serious, by running, by developing a kind of "fuck the world" attitude as well...it's a combination of factors. I can look for the source so I can give you a clearer reference.

 

[Thalassa]

Interesting. In my experience of parental orientation theory, e6's usually connect with the patriarchal model in early years. Which aligns with my own experience. However, I am a member of a few e6 specific groups (outside of typeC) and I did pose the question a few years back. My goal at that time was to actually stomp out the myth that e6 always arises from difficult/traumatic roots. More notably, child-abuse, care-givers with substance-abuse issues, bi-polar and BPD mothers, abandonment, etc. This was something that someone very knowledgeable of 'all thing e-gram' had indicated to me. I simply couldn't accept that ALL e6 had traumatic childhoods, and set out to prove said person wrong.
I posed a few questions and polls, small samples, btw. The pattern that I picked up was across the board. In years 1-5 a stronger connection to father. Some experiencing a connection to both in early years, but strong conflict with both by adolescence. A very small subset indicating difficulties with 'father' in early years. I never made heads or tails with it.



Absolutely agree, unless I misunderstand you. This explains why a mother and father can have multiple children with varying e-grams, and mbti. There is something present prior to the interaction itself, that sets a person up to perceive the interaction the way they do. A biological basis, or perhaps some would all it destiny.

I have never seen 6 directly correlated to trauma, but to inconsistent parenting. You can have inconsistent parenting from two very different parents, or one parent who perhaps has issues with being inconsistent. In my case I believe it relates to my mother being a very laissez-faire and kind of incompetent but deeply loving e9, and my grandparents being strict and authoritarian. And yes in my early years I found more security in the "patriarchal style " of my retired military grandfather, but later in my teens preferred my mother because she accepted me for who I am and I could be honest with her (my 4 heart fix likely came from feeling misunderstood by the people I thought were most secure earlier in life).

 

[Santosha]

I have never seen 6 directly correlated to trauma, but to inconsistent parenting.

Ditto. And the feedback I received (from again, small sample) supported this. Many e6's perceive their childhood as being fairly normal, or at least no serious traumas or abuse sticking out.

You can have inconsistent parenting from two very different parents, or one parent who perhaps has issues with being inconsistent. .

Yep. I think this is more commonly the case, as well. Though, I was a bit surprised of the number that did have extremely difficult childhoods. There was a trend, but really that could be for a number of reasons. I think people who have endured abuse/trauma are more likely to respond to a post asking specifically about it (just comes in on the radar more) but also, there will be some overlap in dysfunctional environments and 'inconsistency'.. so that it falls into a subcategory of 'type of inconsistency'.

In my case I believe it relates to my mother being a very laissez-faire and kind of incompetent but deeply loving e9, and my grandparents being strict and authoritarian. And yes in my early years I found more security in the "patriarchal style " of my retired military grandfather, but later in my teens preferred my mother because she accepted me for who I am and I could be honest with her (my 4 heart fix likely came from feeling misunderstood by the people I thought were most secure earlier in life).

Yeah, that makes sense. My mom definitely had issues with consistency, but they were more along the lines of poor emotional control and perfectionism, which I've made my peace with overtime. From her childhood, she absorbed the belief that to be a good parent, one must completely submerge their own identity into sacrifices for the child and family. So we'd get long periods of her being ridiculously attentive, obsessive in crafts/projects, baking, attending activities, household work, PTA.. and then every so often she'd lose her shit and lash out on all of us for our 'ingratitude'. But in the end, I'm actually thankful that I got to see this kind of mental-bondage in action.. because then I was able to understand that what you can do and give for other people is directly related to how full your own cup is. And now as a parent, I don't everfeel bad for leaving my kid with a babysitter to get a massage, or booking a trip with friends. I think the most important thing a parent can teach a child is self-love, reflected back through the parent. Too many moms will run themselves ragged, attempting to fulfill every wish and want. But they don't know how to model what self-love really looks and feels like.

Ah, parenting is some tough shit. It deserves the greatest compassion.

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=27203]zaluel[/MENTION]
I'm not sensing much reactiveness from this post. have you considered 5 or 3w4?