[Traditional Enneagram] 6w5 and 'Mansplaining'

[five sounds]

I know a very lovely ISFP 6w5 sp/sx. She's amazing at retaining information and going deep into it. Does much more thorough research on topics than I have the patience for, and also is excellent at recognizing areas of weakness in herself, and doesn't fake expertise on those subjects. But when she does know something, she gets reeeeal mansplainy about it. There's probably a better word since she's not a man, but it reminds me of a 5w6 I know, and I was annoyed with him for the same reasons.

Basically, it turns into this monologue about whatever the thing is, assuming you have zero knowledge, and it feels pretty demeaning. Like just cuz you spent an inordinate amount of time learning this, doesn't mean I have no knowledge in the area and need you to explain it to me like I'm an infant who would be lost without your expansive knowledge. I KNOW this isn't their intent or mindset, but I can't help but get defensive and annoyed in those moments. It also turns into my suggestions/ideas being dismissed since they 'know better' (on things like where to eat, how to do a thing, etc.)

Any advice on getting along better with this type? I don't wanna be a jerk but I feel like it's hard not to be in the face of this.

 

[GIjade]

Advice: Tell her that you already know the information she's giving you. simple.

 

[five sounds]

Advice: Tell her that you already know the information she's giving you. simple.

The thing is, I don't know ALL of it. And I actually love to learn from people who are more research minded than me. But I don't know NONE of it and I don't appreciate being talked down to.

 

[Amargith]

Tell her that.

Interrupt her and say:

'ISFP, I love how you can go so in depth into a topic with such vigour and passion. And I do enjoy learning from you - i really do. Unfortunately, I somehow always end up feeling like I'm 5 years old, when you do, which is kind of a downer. Is there any way you could adjust your delivery regarding (insert examples) to for instance this way (insert examples)?'

And then give her some concrete examples of what you mean.

Then reiterate that you really do love and appreciate everything she teaches you.

It's called the 'sandwich feedback technique'

Basically, the formula is as follows:

Start with the stuff you absolutely loved

+ Feedback without but, however, or anything that is a 'negative' linking word + formulated from your pov aka 'I' as 'you' can sound too accusatory

+ reiterate what you definitely did love

 

[Starry]

I've never noticed this with 6w5...but I have with some ISFP.

edit: I didn't see [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]'s post but she's saying what I have observed in beautiful language.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

The thing is, I don't know ALL of it. And I actually love to learn from people who are more research minded than me. But I don't know NONE of it and I don't appreciate being talked down to.

Sounds more like your own insecurities. I never was bothered by someone teaching me and educating me on a subject they had more knowledge, friend, teacher, coach, salesperson, etc.

Usually when something really bothers us in others, it is because triggers something in ourselves that needs work on.

No one can talk down to you unless you let them. But the feeling of "being talked down to" is all your own.....

 

[five sounds]

I've never noticed this with 6w5...but I have with some ISFP.

Maybe I'm confused about her type then. No question about ISFP. Or 6 or instinctual variant. But I had her pegged at 6w7 until I noticed this obsessive research side of her. Then I attributed the love of pleasure to Se and thought maybe it was a 5 wing?

 

[five sounds]

Sounds more like your own insecurities. I never was bothered by someone teaching me and educating me on a subject they had more knowledge, friend, teacher, coach, salesperson, etc.

Usually when something really bothers us in others, it is because triggers something in ourselves that needs work on.

No one can talk down to you unless you let them. But the feeling of "being talked down to" is all your own.....

Yeah, I'm aware that I'm sensitive to this kind of thing which is why I made this thread tbh. I think it's more of a type to type interaction thing than like her problem. Thank you for your input.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I've never noticed this with 6w5...but I have with some ISFP.

Inferior Te can be very condescending, even unintentionally.....

 

[EcK]

I know a very lovely ISFP 6w5 sp/sx. She's amazing at retaining information and going deep into it. Does much more thorough research on topics than I have the patience for, and also is excellent at recognizing areas of weakness in herself, and doesn't fake expertise on those subjects. But when she does know something, she gets reeeeal mansplainy about it. There's probably a better word since she's not a man, but it reminds me of a 5w6 I know, and I was annoyed with him for the same reasons.

Basically, it turns into this monologue about whatever the thing is, assuming you have zero knowledge, and it feels pretty demeaning. Like just cuz you spent an inordinate amount of time learning this, doesn't mean I have no knowledge in the area and need you to explain it to me like I'm an infant who would be lost without your expansive knowledge. I KNOW this isn't their intent or mindset, but I can't help but get defensive and annoyed in those moments. It also turns into my suggestions/ideas being dismissed since they 'know better' (on things like where to eat, how to do a thing, etc.)

Any advice on getting along better with this type? I don't wanna be a jerk but I feel like it's hard not to be in the face of this.

She's not a man but its still mansplaining...? Of course.
Yes lets blame stuff on men, never gets old.

 

[five sounds]

Inferior Te can be very condescending, even unintentionally.....

Ohh interesting! Is it out two weak Te functions going up against eachother? Lol that's kind of hilarious and pathetic. But it means I win, right

 

[Starry]

Maybe I'm confused about her type then. No question about ISFP. Or 6 or instinctual variant. But I had her pegged at 6w7 until I noticed this obsessive research side of her. Then I attributed the love of pleasure to Se and thought maybe it was a 5 wing?

If I know of this ISFP my hit was 9w8

 

[five sounds]

She's not a man but its still mansplaining...? Of course.
Yes lets blame stuff on men, never gets old.

It's just the best word I had for that feeling. I admitted it was probably a poor word choice in my op. Sorry to offend, eckie baby.

- - - Updated - - -

If I know of this ISFP my hit was 9w8

Fucking 9! *hits the enneabooks*

 

[Starry]

She's not a man but its still mansplaining...? Of course.
Yes lets blame stuff on men, never gets old.

haha. omg this made me laugh

 

[Amargith]

Ohh interesting! Is it out two weak Te functions going up against eachother? Lol that's kind of hilarious and pathetic. But it means I win, right

Ime, it's the insecurity and inexperience of using Te (especially if you feel you have something to prove - to others or to yourself and are in essence in 'convincing mode') while sharing factual knowledge that makes us less likely to apply 'social niceties' as we're too busy keeping our facts straight and trying to sound 'authoritative'. Having someone just gently tapping on that and making you aware of it can help you get out of that mindset - provided you feel safe with the person, it's done in not too face-losing way and your ego isn't invested in it all.

 

[Starry]

It's just the best word I had for that feeling. I admitted it was probably a poor word choice in my op. Sorry to offend, eckie baby.

- - - Updated - - -



Fucking 9! *hits the enneabooks*

^^Okay that was totally stupid of me though because I didn't respond to what you said properly (someone is fascinated with only typing).

It's a "some ISFPs" thing...most likely unrelated to enneagram.

 

[indra]

When I'm explaining something an image forms, and as I'm talking I'm "running my fingers" over all the facets I can see. Sometimes that means touching familiar areas.

I'll quote bomb the Jung psych types Ti profile later where he talks about this - basically that they make poor teachers in actuality because their mind is NEVER disengaged from the information being presented.

 

[Forever]

She's not a man but its still mansplaining...? Of course.
Yes lets blame stuff on men, never gets old.

May sound 4'ish to say, but I have transcended gender.

So you're not offending me [MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] .

 

[á´…eparted]

I doubt this has much bearing on type. If just because I used to do this sort of thing ALL the time when I wad youngsr. Though it wasn't called manspalining (I honestly hate that term anyway), but just being a knowitall. It runs in my family actually. My dad was the first one to explicitly point it out in a way that clicked when I was 18, largely because he instinctively does it too (for reference he is an ESTJ 1w2).

Basically if I hear someone ask a question, or bring up a topic, or say something factually wrong, without thinking I will offer up information on it. It is automatic and innate. I simply like sharing things I know with people, in particular if the information isn't common. I also like teaching people things I find interesting. There is no bad intent by it atall, and in my experience most people enjoy this trait of mine. Quite a few will correct me back or add more information as I go along, which I readily accept.

I have had some friends get upset about this in the past. Oddly, the one that stands out the most is an ENFP 7w6 friend fr college. She took it as I was talking down to her, which is so far from the truth. My father had warned me if I was not careful people would interpret it this way. Since her and others, I try to be more mindful of it, and try to assume a more neutral state when I do this. I rarely have problems anymore, partly cause I filter out things that are more opinion based, and stick to things that are more fact based. Granted, if someone gets upset at me for correcting them on a fact (for example, correcting someone on the last element that gets fused in a star), I am kinda gonna put the blame on them if they take it personally.

 

[five sounds]

^^Okay that was totally stupid of me though because I didn't respond to what you said properly (someone is fascinated with only typing).

It's a "some ISFPs" thing...most likely unrelated to enneagram.

Wait now I'm confused... :/