[Traditional Enneagram] Narcism and the Enneagram

[greenfairy]

Are there connections and patterns?
Are they completely unrelated because narcissism is a psychological disorder?
Can narcissists be typed?
Do they manifest more frequently in some types more than others?

 

[greenfairy]

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(since I forgot to tag people)

 

[Ene]

I would think it could manifest in different facades within any type.

 

[Amargith]

It's basically a lack of appreciation for someone else pov and, subsequently their pains and frustrations in life

It doesn't matter which type you are, yourself, as such. Even 2s who normally are all about helping others. I could totally see them being inverted narcissists (narcissists that exclusively date other narcissists to recreate the bond they had with their narcissistic parent, and get their needs met by being completely at the service of someone else - not because they show empathy towards or want to fulfil the needs of the other narcissist but because that is what passed for love in their childhood which informed their love map and their needs)


Some enneagram types struggle with more typical, and therefore more recognisable narcissistic traits than others, perhaps, though.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

I don't think it's unrelated. I've read many articles about how enneagram correlates with personality disorders, even when you read the casual descriptions of the types, you often can find what happens when the type is unhealthy and with which disorder it might correlate. So I think they are related. Riso and Hudson talked alot about how enneagram relates to DSM and Nardi tried as well.

The most typical narcissist are 3s, followed by 4s, 7s and 8s (although 8s are more sadistic/antisocial and 7s could be more addictive, but they all do have narcistic tendencies.)

 

[Z Buck McFate]

It depends on how you're defining narcissism.

It can mean really self-absorbed: a preoccupation with placating one's own feelings. This can even take the guise of focusing on placating others' feelings (e2 style, as Amargith mentioned). When a person lacks awareness of their own needs- and so, can't really make sure their needs get filled in a direct way- the urge to fill one's own needs (when coming from a place of existential scarcity) can become so distracting/strong that it becomes a sort of puppet master to their conscious thought. Their* minds unconsciously distort information, they aren't aware of their underlying motivations to basically use other people to serve their own needs. I think all enneagram types are equally prone to this kind of narcissism- where some kind of existential scarcity can push us into treating other people like objects to use, to make ourselves feel better.


If you're going with the more traditional meaning- which would be an inflated sense of self-worth/entitlement, along the lines of delusions of grandeur- then I'd agree that 3s, 4s, 7s and 8s are the most narcissistic in that sense. Only I'd put 7s in the lead. (But that's just based on my personal experience of those types- not a very big sample size.)

*I should maybe say "Our minds", since I think falling into this kind of existential scarcity is a very universal human frailty.

 

[highlander]

I don't think it's unrelated. I've read many articles about how enneagram correlates with personality disorders, even when you read the casual descriptions of the types, you often can find what happens when the type is unhealthy and with which disorder it might correlate. So I think they are related. Riso and Hudson talked alot about how enneagram relates to DSM and Nardi tried as well.

The most typical narcissist are 3s, followed by 4s, 7s and 8s (although 8s are more sadistic/antisocial and 7s could be more addictive, but they all do have narcistic tendencies.)

I have known one person who I am fairly certain suffered from narcissistic personality disorder. She was an ENTP. As to Enneagram type, I am not entirely certain but I would say it was most likely 7 or 3 so that syncs up with what you are saying.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I've struggled with narcissism my whole life. The males in my paternal lineage all seem to have been narcissists (or had tendencies) and I've made a conscious effort to break the cycle.

 

[HongDou]

I'd agree that 3s, 4s, 7s and 8s are the most narcissistic in that sense. Only I'd put 7s in the lead.

 

[Mal12345]

What is narcism, a belief in narcing?

 

[greenfairy]

What is narcism, a belief in narcing?

Yeah, I noticed that typo too late to correct it. Sure. It's whatever you want it to be.

 

[grey_beard]

Are there connections and patterns?
Are they completely unrelated because narcissism is a psychological disorder?
Can narcissists be typed?
Do they manifest more frequently in some types more than others?

In reading the discussion, I find it fascinating that the discussion has centered upon Enneagram rather than MBTI.

I'd agree: 2, 3, 7, 8 in the lead: 4s might not take care for others, but that's not because the 4 innately feels superior, it's just that they're too focused on their internal *lack* -- the Gordian knot of worth. And a 5 might resemble it, but only because they're memorizing irregular Latin verbs or doing partial differential equations in their head, and simply forget to look up and notice the other people around them...



Aside from the conventional narcissist, the 2 who "needs to be needed" is one to be aware of. C.S. Lewis had a quote about that kind of person:
"She's the type who lives for others. You can always tell the others by their hunted expression."