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[Traditional Enneagram] 1's and Anger

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Question:

If it happens that in your enviroment a number of things that are obviously wrong drastically goes up would you give your anger more freedom ?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,445
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
1's kind of scare me a little bit, which is probably unwarranted. 8's, on the other hand, don't really bother me that much.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,445
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Since you are placed this on a plate just like that .... why ?

I'm just stating my own opinion. I think my preferences are for my own enneagram. I also find that I tend to relate to 9's, followed by 7's. I get along well with 4's about half the time, and the other half....

3's and 2's I don't feel like I associate with enough to have any opinion on them.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Question:

If it happens that in your enviroment a number of things that are obviously wrong drastically goes up would you give your anger more freedom ?
To answer this question and simultaneously re-frame it:
If that happened, I would do something about the situation, as soon as possible. And I would be angry while I was trying to fix the situation. So it'd be less that I was giving my anger freedom to act, and more that my anger would be giving ME freedom to act. Motivating me to get out there and fix the problems.
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
As per the e1 parts of me, I find their anger to be more obvious and heated than the core 1s are describing theirs. In chains and kept often to myself (at this time in my life anyway...the past was quite different), but there's no hiding it or mistaking it for anything else.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
I'm just stating my own opinion. I think my preferences are for my own enneagram. I also find that I tend to relate to 9's, followed by 7's. I get along well with 4's about half the time, and the other half....

3's and 2's I don't feel like I associate with enough to have any opinion on them.


True, but as the person that is soul searching if his gut fix is 1w9 or 8w9 I get attracted to posts that say "1 scare me but 8 do not"


To answer this question and simultaneously re-frame it:
If that happened, I would do something about the situation, as soon as possible. And I would be angry while I was trying to fix the situation. So it'd be less that I was giving my anger freedom to act, and more that my anger would be giving ME freedom to act. Motivating me to get out there and fix the problems.


As I said to the Vulcan already I am here because I am bothered by what is my gut type and this is eating me since this is related to some deep issues. The reason why I am poking people with this is becuse as a non American I do not trust descriptions or tests since they are obviously culturally biased. They are all written for a person that lives in a sane place and no one says much for the people that live in a insane place. Therefore I came with the question about what would happen if the scale of problems goes through out roof. I keep 8w9 as fix since I do not find anger/energy to be something bad while 1w9s should be ashamed of that for the most part ... while the facts and motives simply SCREAM 1 in my case. Everyone that knows me knows that 1ish anger just radiates out of me on daily basis and I am so comfortable with the concept of anger that I give myself an 8 fix. However I keep almost all of the frustrations for my self and I am person that does not snap at all but my actions or rethoric can show clearly that I am completely pissed off.



The tricky part: Imagine this.
Imagine that your parents are two artistic FPs that are constantly late to everything they do, they both dropped out of school because of lazyness/fear and that the house you grew up looks as junkyard. You also grew up right next to the war zone where entire cities were leveled as if it were WW2 all over again and something like 100 000 women were raped there. However to the pollitical reasons most of people who did bad things got collective forgiveness. What means that if your neighbour killed your husband and raped you for 2 months in his garage that today that same person will still be your neighbour that you will see on a daily basis. You will also know his wife and kids that play in garden, his new car ... etc. What is totally unatural or even sureal situation.

The economy of the place where you grew up was so messed up that by the elementary school age you were already a trilionare.
Just in case you think I am BSing you.






Also your entire education was a big joke. At school starting age you spent more time hidding in a basements due to war and you were sleeping in a bathtub with your 5 year neighbour since that is the place that your parents considered safest. Later government had no money for education so there was no lectures and you even had weeks of free time right in the middle of school year. However due to this the grading system got broken and grades were decided on who is more likable and has the most persistant mother in convincing teachers to give their child a better grade. (in my class 2/3 of students were A class students, half of them straight A) What has resulted in techers going crazy since they did not get paid or could do their jobs due to pressure. Therefore the scenes where they were throwing chairs across the classroom and calling us "the worthless pile of shit" were not uncommon. Later when I came to collage level after a year the school administration has determined that they have let me in by mistake and throw me out. (and all of this is just the tip of iceberg of what I experienced in education)



Also here it is not strange that trains are hours late and crossing the street on red light is national sport. Actually since planty of people do not care about laws the streets are full of piss and shit since drunk teens, cronical drunks and pets are free to do it wherever they want. Here lawsuits usually last at least 3-4 years so people usually do not even try go to court. Especially since often even if you won you will have to spend more on Lawers than you will get in the court. (since some cases last for decaded) The entire society is basically pure chaos ... we even had head of state that was porn producer before he got into politics (and the person was in charge of conservatives to make things more apsurd), we also had a guy that was trialed for bombings as well as the guy that was president of the country that had lunched full scale invasion on us. (I know how counter-intuitive this sounds) The problem is that here there is no permanent stability since the collapse of Roman empire and therefore everthing can pass if you try hard enough. Morals or common sense simply do not exist for the large part of this place.


Etc etc.
I can litteraly write the whole book on the topic "Would you believe me what I just saw ... ? "




What would probably happen to 1 or person that has strong 1 fix if they got life cards such as this ? (everyone can answer)
 

Lunar Light

New member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
114
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Not core 1, but strong 1 fix so yeah (though that said this is heavily influenced by 6, and to a lesser extent 2).

[snip] I keep 8w9 as fix since I do not find anger/energy to be something bad while 1w9s should be ashamed of that for the most part ...
This is hard to say because I can't say confidently that I'm necessarily "ashamed" of my anger, but I can't totally contradict that. It's much easier for me to say that I struggle with my anger, however, and going in circles with the anger is not uncommon for me.

When I feel like my anger is well-placed, especially in regards to the justice of something, I allow my anger to flow freely through me. I'm right to be angry. It feels justified and I feel empowered to use it.

The times I struggle with my anger is when I feel like I "shouldn't" be angry but I am anyway, when I feel like I don't have control over the anger. It's spreading like a wildfire and I'm being unfair and unnecessarily harsh to others, even if it's only in my mind and not spoken aloud. And the "going in circles" thing happens in that I go back and forth on the "rightness" of my anger and then I get angry that at my own self-imposed limitations and inhibitions.

I feel like I deserve to be angry, but at the same time it doesn't feel quite right.

At the same time, I feel ashamed if I've wrongfully hurt another person while struggling with this.

So yeah, it's not that anger in itself is something to be ashamed of. It's "wrongful" anger, untamed. Because if I let that happen, I let it corrupt myself and my environment, and then I feel at a loss because I feel "bad."

while the facts and motives simply SCREAM 1 in my case. Everyone that knows me knows that 1ish anger just radiates out of me on daily basis and I am so comfortable with the concept of anger that I give myself an 8 fix. However I keep almost all of the frustrations for my self and I am person that does not snap at all but my actions or rethoric can show clearly that I am completely pissed off.

How would you differentiate 1 and 8 anger, in more detail please?

Btw, I wouldn't say I'm totally uncomfortable with anger the way 9 might be. Like I said, if it's justified, I'm okay with it, though I might still tame it externally. But I've noticed in my 8-fixed SO, he does tend to be more at ease with his anger. He doesn't have to lean on a superego feeling that his anger is right, based on objective standards of goodness. Not sure how to explain it better, but hmm.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Not core 1, but strong 1 fix so yeah (though that said this is heavily influenced by 6, and to a lesser extent 2).


How would you differentiate 1 and 8 anger, in more detail please?


Btw, I wouldn't say I'm totally uncomfortable with anger the way 9 might be. Like I said, if it's justified, I'm okay with it, though I might still tame it externally. But I've noticed in my 8-fixed SO, he does tend to be more at ease with his anger. He doesn't have to lean on a superego feeling that his anger is right, based on objective standards of goodness. Not sure how to explain it better, but hmm.




If I could tell the difference I would not even be in this thread. I do not know if you went through my entire last post but my life was mostly wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and I dare to say that this can be determined by objective standards. The situation is that I believe I am actually a person with 1 fix that had to develope 8ish behaviour since the amount of shit was and still is overwhelming. I mean the amount of problems is pushing the anger/energy out of me to such degree that my 5ish core feels as if it is loosing control/balance. Plus since I am surrounded by Ps I have to establish control if I want to get something collectively done. For example in collage I was always the one that was in control of the group during the group assignemnts ... and the others actually prefered it that way due to efficiency and low drama.



I relate to both 8 and 1 on many deep ways. I have that 8ish loss of innocence attitute and I make my own justice but I also have 1s deep frustration with reality and ability to heal/repair. However it is certain that my gut type has a 9 wing even if it certain that 9 is not my gut type. The problem is that I am from different culture than the enneagram descriptions and the society here is more collectivistic and homogeneous, so our 8s actually look a lot like 1s. However since the far left was in power for 45 years the religion lost its influence so our 1 are often not tied to religion as much as many description would say and have they own sense of justice. Telling a difference between 8w9 and 1w9 can be quite hard under these conditions, especially if they are just a fix of 5ish core.



The reason why this thread is so interesting to me is that I seem to have typical problem of ones: I think like an 8 and act as 1.
Perhaps the best conclusion is that I am a person with strong 1 fix and 8ish element came out of my 5 core as growth. Therefore I wield both energies that I have to constantly balance in myself and be careful that they do not overrun the 5 core. (what is the reason why I am even thinking about this since I feel as am losing my identity)



For the sake of context this is how my enneagram scores look like.


 
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