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  1. #41
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    Quote Originally Posted by Lsjnzy13 View Post
    I redid the mbti test on 16personalities and just realised that unlike the other personality tests where they just tell you what four letters you are, they give you 5 letters, the last letter being either A (assertive) or T (turbulent). So how come the fifth letter never comes up anywhere else? Even on 16personalities, they may give you the 5-letter result (for example I got INFP-T) but when you get redirected to the type description it would just have the first four letters.

    Anyway, according to 16personalities, these are the definitions of Assertive and Turbulent personalities:

    Assertive (-A) individuals are self-assured, even-tempered and resistant to stress. They refuse to worry too much and do not push themselves too hard when it comes to achieving goals.
    Turbulent (-T) individuals are self-conscious and sensitive to stress. They are likely to experience a wide range of emotions and to be success-driven, perfectionistic and eager to improve.

    So my question here is, how come we only use the first four letters when identifying our personalities using MBTI? Judging from the definitions above, an assertive individual is extremely different from a turbulent person. For example, wouldn't an INFP-A be very different from an INFP-T? So why is it that usually only the first four letters are used?

    And also, aren't there certain mbti types that are more success-driven, or more even-tempered than others? (Whenever I hang around my ESFJ or ESTJ friends it's obvious that they are way more success-driven and more sensitive to stress than me. I've also realised that perceivers are less likely to push themselves when it comes to achieving goals.)

    Can anyone explain it to me please thanks!
    Well @Eric B

    I think your Assertive -A and Turbulent -B are related in the 4w3 and the 4w5 with points 8&7.

    I thought you would have picked the bones of it in my pic.

    There is chaos in order and order in chaos

    I suppose you never bothered to read and take my post seriously Eric B

    If that is to hard to interpret at the visceral level then it may go like this:

    ((4) 8&7&9&1)
    ((5) 9&8&1&2)
    ((6) 1&9&8&3)
    ((7) 2&1&3&4)
    ((8) 3&2&4&5)
    ((9) 4&3&5&6)
    ((1) 5&4&6&7)
    ((2) 6&5&7&8)
    ((3) 7&6&8&9)

    Don't ask me to explain the patten,work it out your self.

    If you don't get to 6 and twelve over all then keep going.

    ______________ 12
    ______ 12 _____________12

    _ 12 ______________________ 12

    __ 12 ____________________ 12

    ________ 12 ________ 12

    Yes isn't it amazing, it tallies to 108.

    I suppose now you want my number pattern relating to this diagram.

  2. #42
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    (( ) four dimensions) needed , Edward doc

    108 divide by 4 = 27
    Primary basic brace line instinct, (idea)

    Note to self, eleven pattern thought of while watching and The 11 spoken of.

    Supper cemetery 11+1 = 12

    11+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 21

    Note to self:

    12-21 , 21-12

    42 , 24



    _______ 66

    42 ___________ 42

    54-45 , 45-54

    18 , 108 , idea manifold.

    ______________ 12
    ______ 12 _____________12

    _ 12 ______________________ 12

    __ 12 ____________________ 12

    ________ 12 ________ 12
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 01-22-2016 at 12:00 PM.

  3. #43
    kaleidescope Forever's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    1w9 sx/sp
    IEI Ni


    How I feel when reading your blog at midnight:

    Forever Flowing
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  4. #44
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    Make it ok and sleep on it and your own.... Intuitions of a spiritual order may serve you well.
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  5. #45
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    I was re watching these videos because supper symmetry and other things partly explained in these videos mirror functions, structural dynamics I see in the working of the enneagram and MBTI at the subtype level, and after thinking about:

    Assertive (-A)
    Turbulent (-T)

    And my identifications of the symmetry between ((4) 8&7&9&1). I chose to re watch Edward Witten's explanations below because I see mirrored in those structures he in part explains in a basic language structural links to some dynamics I see, so I was writing little notes to be able to re remember conceptual structures I formed in mind as I was watch and listening to his explanations.

    Like we have our awake time and or sleep time we are also linked between the quantum world and the physical world do tangible things we live with and relate to.

    It is that link and the structure between mind and the quantum and the relative world I am working to ward understanding the structural connection via formulation at a psychometrics level of personalities structural dynamical workings.

    "It takes three individual lines of force to make a new arising"
    -The Holy Trinity Of The Law Of Three:discovering the radical truth at the hart of christianity. Page26

    -1) Mind
    -2) relive world
    -3) quantum

    I was doing my thing constructively minding my own business looking for correlations and recording memory recollection statements for my self on my own work page,thanks for stuffing up my train of focus.

    Edward Witten on modern physics I -

    Edward Witten on modern physics II -

    Edward Witten on modern physics III -

    Edward Witten on modern physics IV -

    Edward Witten on modern physics V -

  6. #46
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Pluto's spinning moons And The Six Instinctual Variants.

    Well the time has come to think about appointing a posable order to a one to one relationship between Pluto and its five moons.

    I have intuitively thought about this image below of Pluto's spinning moons. And reflecting on the nature of the six instinctive variant energies I tend to think the order if there is a one may de as follows.

    The central Pluto = Sp/So
    The second from the centre = So/Sp
    The third from the centre = Sx/Sp
    The fourth from the centre = Sp/Sx
    The fifth from the centre = So/Sx
    The sixth from the centre = Sx/So

    Closer to home are the six Astroid belts. I also think these six Astroid belts are linked to the six instinctual variants.

    My ideas of how Pluto and its moons and the six Astroid belts are linked as a working mechanism involves ideas linked to M theory.

  7. #47
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    An interesting coincidence.

    If we count the Sun and the eight planets we have a number value of nine. The number nine is interesting from an enneagram perspective because the enneagram symbol has nine points.

    Two numbers I find that are of great interest to me are the numbers 54 and 108. And if we place in mind the six Astroid belts and Pluto and its moons we have a number value of twelve.

    So the interesting coincidence I find in this simple patter is the number value we can generate if we multiply twelve by nine and the sum we gain is one hundred and eight.

    ______________ 12
    ______ 12 _____________12

    _ 12 ______________________ 12

    __ 12 ____________________ 12

    ________ 12 ________ 12

  8. #48
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    If there is a left and a right in nature and the the number value 54 is linked to the symbol of the absolute, could the number value 108 be linked to the left and the right of the symbol,of the absolute?

    If so, the six Astroid belts and Pluto and its five moons could be two parts of a mechanical process that have a relationship with the left and right principle in nature.

    One part could be Pluto and its five moons and the other part could be the six Astroid belts.

  9. #49
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    Quote Originally Posted by KitchenFly View Post
    I decided to go deeper into the structure of my one to one correlation and have completed one of twelve examples for the twelve Sub-Types at Point:9

    Example: 9w1 Sx/Sp , F-N,S,T , Fi-Ne,Se,Te , Fi-Ni , Te-Fe , Te-Si ,

    This example hits the First shock with out successfully proceed to the second shock. Probiotic actions flux between the actions of the three dynamics ( Fi-Ni , Te-Fe , Te-Si ). These dynamics combined add to the difficulty of understanding and viewing the one to one correlation between the two components 9w1 and INFP witch has more than one four letter order in its four letter order as a combination.

    Fi = 9 = Preferred function for the 9w1.
    Te = w1 = 1w2 Preferred function Te.
    Fe = w8 = 8w9 Preferred function Fe.
    Ni = 6w5's = Point of Stress 6w5's Preferred function = Ni.
    Te = 9w1's fourth/ Lest preferred function fourth function = Te.
    Si = 3w2's preferred function Si.

    Note six actions.

    I think for the 9w1 Sx/Sp/So the order of the six variant heads is:

    Fi = Sx/Sp
    Te = Sp/So
    Fe = Sx/So
    Ni = So/Sx
    Te = Sp/Sx
    Si = So/Sp

    In my model the point of integration is also the point of neurosis for the type, this example is for the 9w1 Sx/Sp who's Point of Integration/Neurosis is at Point:3 , 3w2. In the example the neurotic energy will be Fi-Si the Fi comes from the first preference of the 9 energy in the 9w1 So/Sp and the Si comes from the first preference from the 3w2's first function.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostlovescore View Post
    Hi, I am an ISFP 9w1, 4w5, 6w5 SX/SP. Seems to be accurate for me at least.
    That's interesting.

    You say; "Seems to be accurate for me at least."

    I'm not really into challenging people and asserting that they have misread there actual cognitive activity, but if you are open to my understanding as to why 9's score highly as ISFP's I am happy to shear with you the structure that I believe makes it so that many 9's believe them selves to be and do score as ISFP's.

    It's slightly complex but if you are interested I will explain it for you, and also shear a structure that dose work in unison with this dynamic that is closer to the workings of the sleeping mind and its trance. In other words I will show to you the structure of the mind as it operates while lucid dreaming and operating within the dream state.

    But if you are not really interested that's cool with me because I am kinda wanting to save that structure for when the enneagram institute discussion boards reopens in the near future.

    I count six structures that work in unison and if tritype and the six instinctual variant heads and trifix are added then there are nine structures at work as I understand the living enneagram to operate.

    Hi ghostlovescore. I have thought about it this morning and I have decided to not post the patterns and to save them for my original plan. To post the patterns on the enneagram institute discussion boards when they reopen in the near future.

    But to help you out the Si is the second preference in both of these components. So ISFP followers as a measurement. But there is more to it but I don't wish to reveal the patten, to explain properly, would require revealing the bigger pattern.

    Te = w1 = 1w2 Preferred function Te. Si is the second preference.
    Fe = w8 = 8w9 Preferred function Fe. Si is the second preference.

    So as a way of speaking, time and space witch are a unison would relate to the activity function of Te & Fe inline with - acting with, the second function "N" of the INFP ordering at Point:9.

    Te & Fe become Si & Si as an action of utilising second function over first function, and the balance of three becomes ether or rudely to the shape of:

    Te ________ Fe

    _____ Ne

    Si _________ Si

    _____ Fi

    _____ Si

    Te ________ Fe

    So basically Ne the second function becomes Si and there fore Si becomes the new, direct cognition function, and Te & Fe remain temporal (Time) and spectral (Spacial) related time and space are a unity function and the third implicate function Direct cognition swops from Ne to Si and Fi remains the "OBSERVER".

    So it looks like this.

    _________ Ne

    Fi ________________ Ti


    __________ Si

    Te ________________ Fe

    So that is a representation of one one function to ("tent in context") that is one piece of content with in the context of the pattern. If you can follow the logic of it as I present it.

    ______________ Fi
    ____ Si, Fe ___ ne ___ Te,Si

    ______________ Fi

    _______Te ____ Si ____ Fe

    __________ - The Observer

    ___________ Direct cognition
    _________________( Si )

    Space (Te) ________________ (Fe) Time

    To understand this map requires utilising your own observer and the visceral of you intelligence to sense the values explained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corn Dispenser View Post
    No offense but WTF is this. Also, what's up with Fe for 8 and Si for 3?

    I don't get it.

    It is about the law of three with an action between three parts within an action you FW.

    There are within this action two multiplicities (Te & Fe) and The Observer observed via (Fi & Ne).

    Three lines of force ( Te , Ne , Fe ) a shift takes place directed via a command from The Observer (Fi) three lines of force ( Si , Fi , Si ) and what change takes place is a shift in the order ( Te , Si , Fe ) Fi remained The Observer and the observed though action has a new perspective lens Ne becomes Se hence INFP action Becomes ISFP action but 9w1 always remains at its base line measurement INFP.


    three lines of force ( Si , Fi , Si ).

    The Fi comes from Point:9 the 9w1, INFP.

    One Si comes from the second function of the Point:1 1w2 ESTJ Second preferred function Si.

    The second Si comes from the second function of the Point:8 8w9 ESFJ Second preferred function Si.


    change takes place is a shift in the order ( Te , Si , Fe )

    Te comes from Point:1 1w2 ESTJ preferred function Te.

    Fe comes from Point:8 8w9 ESFJ Second preferred function Fe.

    The important understanding to start with is that this set of actions is a modality a modality of a action within one of nine sets of actions for each of the eighteen enneagram subtypes.

    The action is a modality. For example it maybe an active line of force within the tritype action for the individual or it maybe not be most likely it will not be because the tritype action is a concentrated modality action within its own action as a form of the law of three within action, three lines of force.

    I find or believe the law of three works in many ways within the operating mind, even in the sleeping mind the lucid thinking mind and the mind in its trance like state.

    It is not true that the law of three is only associated with intuitions of a spiritual order generated via sensing thinking and feeling all at once, the truth is the law of three is at work in may ways in the general of our direct cognition and sub conches activity. If it was not l believe cognition and freedom of thought would not be posable.

    The path to Higher Mind requires the action of making the Law Of Three happen within via sensing thinking and feeling at once to manifest intuition of a spiritual order, but that is just one form a higher specific form of making the law of three happen within. The fact is the law of three is happening within cognition constantly on May forms in May ways constantly so as we have flux within cognition.

    With out the Law Of Three constantly working within cognition the flux of minds thinking the self would probity be stuck, and alive but stuck in a neutral most likely in a state were the only cognitive action likely would be ( S&N and T&F ) without any other of the eight cognitive actions.

    This state or disease (adrenoleukodystrophy) reminds me of the movie lorenzo's oil.

    The medical state those people are in may provide and like medical states may provide scientific clues to the Nero chemical base of the function ( S&N and T&F ) within mind and hint also to the Nuro chemical structures of the eight cognitive functions.

    There must be an electromagnetic and neurochemistry connection to the eight cognitive functions and the two ambidextrous functions ( S&N and T&F ).

    My thinking is between ( space - time and gravity ) there is or maybe a link to ( S&N and T&F and Direct Cognition ). As there is a left and right in nature and a Presence or conches location.

    The trick for me is to understand the role of ( S&N and T&F ) in the transformation process between parts of actions within a transformation, transformation process or proses that constantly occur within processes of the minds flux.

    Could the relationship be as simple as a two lane circuit between the Hart and the Brain, wherein one end maybe related to input out put and at the other end there is also an input out put function. Two Functions four parts S&N and F&T.

    If I was to take an intuitive guess I would place F&T with Brain and S&N with Hart.

    But how to link all actions together the Eight Cognitive Functions and the two ambidextrous functions, ( S&N and T&F ).
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  10. #50
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default KitchenFly's laboratory for the exploration of number patterns

    Quote Originally Posted by great_bay View Post
    INTP and INTJ look nearly identical to the outside observer. INTJ and INTP both have the same stereotype to be the absent minded intellectual nerd. They appear to be the same person. However, in actuality, they're not alike at all.

    The sixth function is known as the critical parent function. The sixth function is the hardest to use for both individuals. The negative part of INTP and INTJ interaction is that their first function is the hardest to understand for each other. INTJ have a hard time understanding introverted thinking which is finding faults and inconsistencies. INTP have trouble understanding introverted intuition which foresees implications,transformations, and likely effects.

    The reason I told you is because they're not really alike at all. INTJ don't get Ti. INTP's don't get Ni
    I agree that most INTP's don't get or have a hard time getting Ni but the 5w4 with a tritype 5w4 2w1 8w9 gets Ni extremely well especially the So/Sx because the So component sits on Point:7 and and point Severn connects with Point:1 , 7w6 goes to 1w9 the ambidextrous S&N type.

    Further more the 5w4 2w1 8w9 tritype has a special balance within between the 8w9 and 2w1 at the second third and fourth functions.

    2w1 has Si as its second preferred function and Ni as third preferred function.
    8w9 has Ni as its second preferred function and Si as third preferred function.

    Both 2w1 and 8w9 have Ti as it fourth preferred function.

    So as you can see the similarly is is idea for the 5w4 2w1 8w9 and 5w4 8w9 2w1. A note worth example of this tritype with the stacking So/Sx/Sp is Russ Hudson.

    A further point to add is that the the 1w9 is the type that has the ambidextrous S&N with is a second function Si&Ni.

    But yes in general unless the 5w4 develops Ni they can have difficulties with being stressed and reclusive.

    The 6w5 has a different difficulty it in fact has contact with Ni in one of its wings the wing associated with mood, the Severn wing for the 6w5 witch is 7w8. The 7w8 second preference is Ni.

    The primer difficulty for the 6w5 is finding the correct balance and holding it witch requires connecting with the 5w6 via the 8w7. The reson being is that the 5w6 holds the ambidextrous T&F being ambidextrous Te&Fe.

    Why is this important and a struggle? There are many obstacles and tempting distractions in the way as short cuts to contentment. I will not get into that other than to say one distraction can be friend ships with INFJ's if not productive and with a health conches mutual focus.

    But more to the point, les look at the complexity the 6w5 faces.

    Conches agenda is associated with the 6w5's five wing 5w4 and it's first function is Ti second preferred function is Ne and third prefers function is Se and four prefers function is Fe.

    Conches mood is associated with the 6w5's Severn wing 7w8 and it's first function is Te and second preferred function is function is Ni and third prefers function is Si and fourth preferred function is Fi.

    6w5 can be seen locked in mind as if they are viewing something focused more intently than most At times and it is understandable because of the unequal equal unique balances Ti - Te , Ne - Ni , Se - Si , Fe - Fi . And so for example Sx/So/Sp 6w5's can become frustrated finding the balance they seek instinctively because the ambidextrous Fi&Ti associated with Point:5 the 5w6 first preference conflicts because the fourth function of the Severn wing associated with mood for the 6w5 Sx/So or 6w5w7 Sx/So/Sp Fi contrasts with the agenda focused five wing for the Sx/So 6w5. In other words agenda and instinct and Ti and Te kinda get muddled up for the individual.

    But other 6w5w7 types may not have such difficulties or advantages as the example given because when the 6w5 Sx/So let's go and trust magic can happen they can be very dynamic and amazingly in balanced. And also the other 6w5w7's, when they find the balance between the contrasts they can to excel in many ways, intellectually and via personification in there own way of instinctual expression.

    An important question still remains. With these fresh concept in mind and reliving that there are twelve variables at play with in each set, the 5w4w6 and the 6w5w7 what ordering sequences may apply for each of the two types mentioned when considering the variant head structures.

    There must be twelve dynamic key actions for not gut the two types we have talked about the INTP's and INTJ's, but all eighteen subtypes.

    That is a complex puzzle, a puzzle that is work within my mind at present along with other patterns.

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