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[Traditional Enneagram] Maladaptive Daydreaming.

BlakeUndefined

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Hi, as you know excessive daydreaming, physical movements, talking to yourself etc. "All in the head" kind of thing. Anyway, are there any enneatypes that are prone to malapdative daydreaming or are all the withdrawn types equally prone to it? And.. describe how you tend to react when you're in that process, haha. maintaining self awareness while daydreaming..
 

á´…eparted

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I would say this would be most common in 9's, and maybe some 5's and 4's. One of 9's defense mechanisms and escape tools is to shut off so it makes sense that this would be a way to do it.
 

Redbone

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Probably all withdrawn types but I would say 4s...yes.
 

grey_beard

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5s do it but usually it's not as much daydreaming as working out a computer bug or planning something intellectual, say an argument you're hashing out or an essay you're percolating.
4s definitely. Paging [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION], [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION]
9s -- not sure; but likely. Paging [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION].
 

Southern Kross

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I would say 4s are definitely prone to it. Sometimes it difficult for me to stop and pay attention to the external world. I'm not sure if other types are worse or not, although I suspect that 4s probably have that title.

I can literally stare at a wall for hours, completely lost in my thoughts. It's like the built in entertainment system, which comes in handy when you're waiting for a bus and have nothing to do. I have next to no self-awareness when it happens. It's resulted in some awkward situations too. I've had people say to me, "excuse me, but can you stop staring at me", when I accidentally drifted off and didn't realize/register what direction my eyes were inadvertently pointed. I then lie and say I was looking at something else, because for some reason I assume daydreaming is too weird to use as an excuse. Dark sunglasses are a must to avoid such problems.
 

Seymour

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5s do it but usually it's not as much daydreaming as working out a computer bug or planning something intellectual, say an argument you're hashing out or an essay you're percolating.

If I don't stay mindful, I'll find myself trying to figure out some ridiculous engineering, physics or programming task before I know it. Like, "how much more quickly does one reach the top of this very long escalator if one walks, and how much more stress does it put on the mechanism? Would there be any notable energy savings, since the escalator stairs themselves weigh quite a bit? Plus, looking at the bigger picture, what's the the overall cost vs benefit of the escalator? One would need to factor in health effects, efficiency/time factors, energy use, repair down time (perhaps affected by how many walk vs stand), etc. "

I'm not a mechanical engineer or economics/health researcher, but I can be off in that kind of speculation in about two seconds. It's not fantasizing or daydreaming (there's a goal of figuring out and understanding), but often it serves no direct useful purpose and doesn't lead anywhere other than realizing that "reality is freaking complicated, and there's a lot of figuring out that goes on and doesn't." And it can definitely be a way to intellectualize rather than experience.
 

grey_beard

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If I don't stay mindful, I'll find myself trying to figure out some ridiculous engineering, physics or programming task before I know it. Like, "how much more quickly does one reach the top of this very long escalator if one walks, and how much more stress does it put on the mechanism? Would there be any notable energy savings, since the escalator stairs themselves weigh quite a bit? Plus, looking at the bigger picture, what's the the overall cost vs benefit of the escalator? One would need to factor in health effects, efficiency/time factors, energy use, repair down time (perhaps affected by how many walk vs stand), etc. "

I'm not a mechanical engineer or economics/health researcher, but I can be off in that kind of speculation in about two seconds. It's not fantasizing or daydreaming (there's a goal of figuring out and understanding), but often it serves no direct useful purpose and doesn't lead anywhere other than realizing that "reality is freaking complicated, and there's a lot of figuring out that goes on and doesn't." And it can definitely be a way to intellectualize rather than experience.

Awww, *crap*. A fellow 5w4.

Hail and well met! :hi:
 

Polaris

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I can testify that I'm the king of maladaptive daydreaming (or before-sleep dreaming, to be technically correct about it). Every night before I go to sleep, I think about all of the things I would do if I were omnipotent. It's always some lovely scenario about, for instance, how I'd perfect my physique and put on the most gorgeous robes before walking up a flight of stairs and seating myself in front of a pipe organ of my own design. Then I'd let loose a stream of music that would surpass the genius of every composer who ever lived. After that I'd post a video of it on Youtube.

That's what I do every night, and it's starting to drive me a little bit nuts. I want it so badly that I keep begging the gods to please let it happen. Sometimes I think it will happen and is already happening. And when it fails to happen, I'm bitterly disappointed.
 

Cellmold

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I do this all the time, even at work and it regularly becomes commented on and I'm usually surprised I'm doing it
 

hjgbujhghg

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This is what I do 24/7, in my head it's always 90% daydream and maybe 10% paying attention to what is going on around me. Everyone who knows me says I have my own world and I really do. But it's driving me hell of a nuts, 'cause it seems it completely blocked me from being aware of the external possibilities and I keep missing on life.
 

Hitoshi-San

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Psssht..... I do this stuff all the time and I'm 7w8. But, I would have to say the more detached, self-reflected types, like 4. My brother is a possible 4 and he will carry on full conversations with himself when he's bored and has that kind of imagination that could create a whole new world.
 

OrangeAppled

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Yes and it usually has themes of whatever I am longing for. It's like fantasy, but not in the magical sense, in a sexual sense (although not necessarily about sex at all) - desire. I know it's unhealthy because it feeds desire and discontent in me.

Like a 9, there is escapism from the present and the unpleasant (I think 7s daydream for that purpose too), but instead of leaving me more peaceful, as if daydreaming were some kind of emotional anaesthetic, it fuels the longing and the melancholy. It makes me constantly have a comparison of my ideals with the real world. It explores the deeply significant while all else feels incredibly mundane. I try to escape the mundane more than the pain of life.

This daydreaming can be anything from an ongoing storyline to visuals that music or the general ambience may inspire. It's cheesy, but I like doing music videos in my head, where I splice together striking, imagined visuals that the music conjures up. I can also be quite shallow and spend time constructing rooms, clothing, and other crelative projects I'll probably never do in actuality. I like music and still visuals and books better than TV or movies for this reason, because I like to be able to lapse into my own fantasy that these things inspire. My own visuals tend to be more interesting to me.

I've realized how much of this embodies a value-concept of sorts though - it has an emotional tone to it and it says something to me about human experience, whether I've had it outside of the daydream or not. My daydreams are frequently tragic because of that. When I was younger I'd purposely read/watch/listen to stuff that would stir up some intense fantasy that would upset me. And then I'd know what impact something has on people - what it means and what weight it carries.

I know this has some value, but it's not real world value and tends to only receive any validation if I can channel it into some form that others can understand it in. That's not easy to do and even that can be written off as frivolous.

The other half of the time I am working out what I feel/think and/or musing on theories and ideas. So if not daydream, then I'm lost in thought. People think I have a dreamy appearance regardless of where my brain is actually at. Staying in the moment for any length of time is hard for me.
 
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BlakeUndefined

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Yes and it usually has themes of whatever I am longing for. It's like fantasy, but not in the magical sense, in a sexual sense (although not necessarily about sex at all) - desire. I know it's unhealthy because it feeds desire and discontent in me.

Like a 9, there is escapism from the present and the unpleasant (I think 7s daydream for that purpose too), but instead of leaving me more peaceful, as if daydreaming were some kind of emotional anaesthetic, it fuels the longing and the melancholy. It makes me constantly have a comparison of my ideals with the real world. It explores the deeply significant while all else feels incredibly mundane. I try to escape the mundane more than the pain of life.

This daydreaming can be anything from an ongoing storyline to visuals that music or the general ambience may inspire. It's cheesy, but I like doing music videos in my head, where I splice together striking imagining visuals that the music conjures up. I can also be quite shallow and spend time constructing rooms, clothing, and other crelative projects I'll probably never do in actuality. I like music and still visuals and books better than TV or movies for this reason, because I like to be able to lapse into my own fantasy that these things inspire. My own visuals tend to be more interesting to me.

I've realized how much of this embodies a value-concept of sorts though - it has an emotional tone to it and it says something to me about human experience, whether I've had it outside of the daydream or not. My daydreams are frequently tragic because of that. When I was younger I'd purposely read/watch/listen to stuff that would stir up some intense fantasy that would upset me. And then I'd know what impact something has on people - what it means and what weight it carries.

I know this has some value, but it's not real world value and tends to only receive any validation if I can channel it into some form that others can understand it in. That's not easy to do and even that can be written off as frivolous.

The other half of the time I am working out what I feel/think and/or musing on theories and ideas. So if not daydream, then I'm lost in thought. People think I have a dreamy appearance regardless of where my brain is actually at. Staying in the moment for any length of time is hard for me.



OMG. Thank you. Out of every post, i relate to this the most.
 

laterlazer

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I definitely do this a lot, I always wondered if a lot of people talk to themselves too or if it was something I really shouldn't be admitting out loud, although I don't talk to myself as much as it's talking to an imagined person in a scenario I've created for myself. But unlike some people here it seems I'm better at not doing it in public, most of my daydreaming is done when I'm alone. I'm mostly always aware of the presence of other people.

I actually have multiple daydream worlds where I sometimes try to pick up where I left off but I forget what daydream I might have had at a certain time. I love doing the music video thing too like someone above said, I love to listen to songs that don't have a video and construct one as I listen, same with tv shows, I think of different plots and additions of characters I think would take the story to a different level etc. And of course there's the whole imagining all the possibilities regarding my relations with real life people.
 

Galena

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Yes. For me, it is mostly about projects I am working on and the fantasy self who is much further along on them than I am. It seems constructive because of the ties to real activities, but that's an illusion. Really, it's an easier but ultimately unsatisfying (and as such addictive) way to get the emotional juice out of accomplishment without having to face the unglamorous work.
 

Redbone

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I actually have multiple daydream worlds where I sometimes try to pick up where I left off but I forget what daydream I might have had at a certain time. And of course there's the whole imagining all the possibilities regarding my relations with real life people.

I do this to the point of where I can shuffle through my imaginary, daydream worlds like cards in a deck according to my mood. At a very bad point in my life, I would do everything I could to be alone so I could jet off to this one place in particular.

I'm too engaged with the outer world now to keep up that kind of intense daydreaming now and I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss it. I do...very much. But I know it's a trap for me...even the mini-trips I take in middle of the night while listening to music...I pay for it with loss of sleep. It would be so easy to go back to withdrawing from everything and everyone and just exist in the spaces of that shuffling deck. As an sp-dom, I'm reclusive enough as it is. Real life beckons and as has been said, very boring. So I try very hard to find little places of wonder in it. It's there...it's just hard for me to discipline myself to have the eyes to see it so that I do not dismiss everyday life as missing something.
 

Avocado

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My daydreams are basically comedy central. I laugh all the time. It provides relief from worry.
 

Spectre

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I realize this is an old thread but I have come across an interesting video in my "studying" of the concept.

YouTube

I have only seen the beginning of the movie, but the youtube clip hits home for me.

What do you think of it?
 

RadicalDoubt

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I realize this is an old thread but I have come across an interesting video in my "studying" of the concept.

YouTube

I have only seen the beginning of the movie, but the youtube clip hits home for me.

What do you think of it?

Ew it's creepy how accurate this is. Idk if I actually have maladaptive daydreaming as an actual disorder, but I definitely daydream excessively to the point where it's difficult to keep up with the real world. This quote was especially accurate:

If you try to have a conversation with me, I can't bring myself to listen to you. I pretend to listen to you and you really think I do but my mind is somewhere else thinking about it... I feel as if I am not here, but I'm not there either, and I can't shake off this feeling of being split in two. ~Anonymous
Ouch, I don't even like quotes.

Idk, I think excessive daydreaming (not necessarily maladaptive) this would be more common among the withdrawn types, though I can see idealistic types (7,1,4) also falling into this category.
 
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