[Traditional Enneagram] 'Balanced' 4w5s

[lulabelle]

I don't feel like I've ever struck a balance in my life in any sense... Any 4w5s out there, particularly INFPs who feel content and like they would consider themselves a 'healthy' non-tortured 4w5? Any discoveries you've made that you've leveraged into 'health;?

 

[grey_beard]

I think that when they become balanced then they "flip" and become a 5w4...

 

[the state i am in]

not the same (5w4), but for me not shaming myself, checking in with my body and taking care of my physical needs, focusing my efforts on the choices available to me (and others around me) to make in the here and now (and appreciating how those shape my experience), and really owning my own needs so that i can see the inside of myself more clearly and not get caught up fixating on the vulnerabilities associated with my image that i can not fully control.

the needs perspective most of all helps me find the place in myself and others that inspires empathy naturally, rather than being motivated by trying to be or chase "goodness" (or beauty) or whatever i feel i am supposed to. once past that, it's easier to care, and it's easier to trust that that care will arise again and again and again out of each and every situation, so i don't have to be afraid of or angered by my own emptiness and the emptiness i have sensed in all things. instead of being seen as a worthlessness, it's just an openness, an undefined set of possibilities, of ways of coming together. the needs are the gravity, the core vulnerability, that drive the actualization of such becomings, of such identities. and that always seems to be more than enough, because it helps get at the warm, trying to do its best part underneath of all intentions, of all strategies to meet those needs.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I thought this was a thread where you were going to tell us how you did it.




I tell myself that no one really has that balance, even if they appear to have it. Everyone is constantly struggling to achieve and maintain something akin to it, whatever their exterior may say. Maybe it's because the modern world expects too much, maybe it's because we have the luxury to work towards self-actualization and are not just struggling with basic physical survival - who knows. I think 4s can be cursed/blessed with self-awareness of these things more than others, although I don't think others fully escape the negative emotions. They just don't become fascinated with understanding and "solving" them, so they get boxed up somewhere inside while they appear to "keep calm and carry on". I suppose this is a comfort to me, and when I feel okay with being the way I am, it eases the sense of being "defective" and then I'm less focused on it, and as a result, a bit more balanced. I'd hardly say it's a cure or not an ongoing struggle still.

In person and from a distance, people can think I am calm and unconcerned with stuff when I am not feeling that internally. So appearances of others can be deceiving. I suppose it appears that others are functioning through this more than we 4s are, but they may take that view of us also. Again, sort of grasping that this is a normal, human thing makes it seem less of a fatal flaw in oneself, although with it goes the hope of conquering it.

 

[small.wonder]

[MENTION=22547]lulabelle[/MENTION] I'm as "balanced" as I've ever been, but I do agree with the above [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] in that I can totally fall off the teeter-totter if I'm not maintaining my health. For me, that balance entails pursuing action (which could also mean being in the body more as [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION] mentioned) with my ideas and emotions-- not letting them tangle within me, suffocating both myself and those around me. Without action, I tend to start looking around, the shame and envy kick in and I bury myself in how miserable, frustrated and broken I am.

Yeah, action, organization, boundaries, focus on justice for others. Also knowing (and remembering) that good can come of my pain/brokeness by revealing it in order to relate to and encourage others. Beatrice Chestnut's book The Complete Enneagram has some great practical "work" for each type to move towards balance.

 

[the state i am in]

i resonate with what OA writes too in terms of how while all those intentions and perspectives are helpful for shaping response, being patient with the process of the ups and downs, the inevitabilities of pain and the confusion around pain and the desire to avoid pain that oftentimes makes things worse, is itself a bigger goal that is always and only a work in progress. sometimes just letting go of all my goals and attempt to change things, which oftentimes is initiated less by my own volition and more by something given to me, is way more important. so in general, i find letting go and being supported to do so is a higher priority than just making good choices or setting good goals. i just run better on more emptiness. there's more space to allow things to be in their place without being in the way of everything.

 

[lulabelle]

[MENTION=22547]lulabelle[/MENTION] I'm as "balanced" as I've ever been, but I do agree with the above [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] in that I can totally fall off the teeter-totter if I'm not maintaining my health. For me, that balance entails pursuing action (which could also mean being in the body more as [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION] mentioned) with my ideas and emotions-- not letting them tangle within me, suffocating both myself and those around me. Without action, I tend to start looking around, the shame and envy kick in and I bury myself in how miserable, frustrated and broken I am.

Yeah, action, organization, boundaries, focus on justice for others. Also knowing (and remembering) that good can come of my pain/brokeness by revealing it in order to relate to and encourage others. Beatrice Chestnut's book The Complete Enneagram has some great practical "work" for each type to move towards balance.

Just wondering, do you know your MBTI type?
I imagine there are differences in how INFJ 4w5s and INFP 4w5s will approach health and betterment

 

[small.wonder]

[MENTION=22547]lulabelle[/MENTION] Yes and no. I find MBTI to be difficult for me to settle on type because it's pretty general (as compared to the larger variety in the Enneagram). I score strongly I and N, but consistently split on the last two letter places. I know from extensive reading and self examination that I am a Feeler by default. J/P is the one I'm stumped on because I am some of both. Several INFJ's here that I respect on an intellectual level have made good arguments for my being INFJ, but my therapist thinks I'm INFP. I have read that the more "balanced" a person is the more difficult to MBT I type them though, so perhaps that's it. The functions I most relate to are Ni, Fi, Ti and Fe (in that order).

Haha, and these are the reasons MBTI is frustrating for me. I suppose I am INfx. I will say though, the reason I need organization and structure is because I tend to become too freeform to the point of frustration and lack of direction. That's when I have downward spiral and start to lose sight of the purpose. That said, I am also pretty orderly about my environment-- again, the J/P split for me.

 

[lulabelle]

[MENTION=22547]lulabelle[/MENTION] Yes and no. I find MBTI to be difficult for me to settle on type because it's pretty general (as compared to the larger variety in the Enneagram). I score strongly I and N, but consistently split on the last two letter places. I know from extensive reading and self examination that I am a Feeler by default. J/P is the one I'm stumped on because I am some of both. Several INFJ's here that I respect on an intellectual level have made good arguments for my being INFJ, but my therapist thinks I'm INFP. I have read that the more "balanced" a person is the more difficult to MBT I type them though, so perhaps that's it. The functions I most relate to are Ni, Fi, Ti and Fe (in that order).

Haha, and these are the reasons MBTI is frustrating for me. I suppose I am INfx. I will say though, the reason I need organization and structure is because I tend to become too freeform to the point of frustration and lack of direction. That's when I have downward spiral and start to lose sight of the purpose. That said, I am also pretty orderly about my environment-- again, the J/P split for me.

Okay, interesting . Yeah, I just asked because I do find that INFJ 4w5s and INFP 4w5s can be pretty different in terms of what calms them and their goals or whatnot. Considering both enneagram AND MBTI has been very helpful for me in understanding myself and others but definitely not everyone feels that way

 

[hjgbujhghg]

There is no such thing as balanced 4w5, we all are emotional wrecks

 

[brainheart]

I consider myself a relatively balanced four. That said, I don't think being a balanced four necessarily goes along with contentment and absence of torture. I think it's more about getting all of your crap out there in a creative way.