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[Traditional Enneagram] 4w5s + love

lulabelle

New member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
255
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
i'm a 4w5 (4w5 9w8 5w4 sx/sp INFP) and am wondering with which types we tend to have good relationships. i am intensely withdrawn + feel like within me is an emotional ecosystem that can quite happily sustain + entertain itself forever yet i crave that perfectly understanding partner to resonate with me/it. what have your experiences in love been like? what is the enneagram and MBTI of your most compatible partner?
 

Chthonic

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Jun 18, 2014
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683
i'm a 4w5 (4w5 9w8 5w4 INFP) and am wondering who this type tends to partner up with. i am intensely withdrawn + feel like within me is an emotional ecosystem that can quite happily itself forever yet i crave that perfectly understanding partner to resonate with me/it. what have your experiences in love been like? what is the enneagram and MBTI of your most wonderful partner?

For me, I bond intensely with partners and tend to stay with them for a long time. I find no need for a social circle outside of the relationship but I also enjoy my partner giving me a lot of space in the relationship. I don't want to be joined at the hip. But I do want my iteractions with my parters to be intense. I would rather have one significant other than a group of acquaintances. I don't think there is a type I tend to partner up with (With regards to MBTI or enneagram either) but I do tend to partner with those guys who for either ideological or other reasons are quite Bohemian. The fringe of society, small social circle, wanting to be non-conformist. They usually express this with kink in the bedroom or have alternate sexuality.

Mostly my relationships have been trainwrecks so I can't comment on the most wonderful match. But by far the most intense match was my recent. Our sexual energy was very high but it was a relationship that simply could not have worked in the longterm. The fact it was short-lived was I think the biggest aspect of disillusionment for me. I found it hard to let go when the time came to do so because the lead up to that had been great. I did let go because logically I knew that was the only possible outcome but I secretly bled for a very long time. It is still a raw memory for me actually.

If I could characterise my relationship dynamic I think disillusionment would have to be it. I have a habit of entering relationships I know on a subconscious level aren't going to last, but I still get disappointed when the connection breaks. I am a self sufficient unit but a part of me still craves connection of the sort your describe. I find I have to bury my sex drive constantly to maintain equanimity as a single person.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
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sp/sx
I am a self sufficient unit but a part of me still craves connection of the sort your describe. I find I have to bury my sex drive constantly to maintain equanimity as a single person.

It's almost impossible for me to bury this, and I've only done it when basically enamored with something else, like a project, which proved to be a distraction. It's not just sexual, but the whole romantic dynamic. Lacking it, I am very on-edge emotionally.

I can be self-sufficient in practical ways & don't have a strong need for socializing, and so many people think I choose to be single because I am independent and don't "need" a relationship. It's strange to me how many view romantic relationships through that lens. They think more in terms of a helper in life, a social niche - not in terms of intimacy. They think the only problem with being single is being lonely, and that friendships solve this. They all sound asexual to me, although I don't think their libidos are lower; because like I said, it's really more about intimacy, not sex. That level of closeness with a friend would cease to be platonic, and I have that approached that in friendship; it gets to a point where it's kind of obsessive, and with a male friend, I think it would inevitably become romantic. So I mostly have female friendships now or keep male friends at arm's length if there is no possibility of us dating (as I don't do casual sex or FWB or anything like that).

I have not had a very successful relationship, but those I dated more seriously were usually intellectual and/or cultured with shared beliefs and values. I think I am more "INFP" in who I date than "4".
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,039
MBTI Type
NiFe
Your MBTI says Fi dom, your socionics says Ni dom.

Doing it for each

For INFP 4(95), the best partner would be ESTJ 1(37)

For INFJ 4(95), the best partner would be... idk, because ESTP doesn't seem likely to be 1 or 2. Maybe ESTP type 8?
 

lulabelle

New member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
255
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Your MBTI says Fi dom, your socionics says Ni dom.

Doing it for each

For INFP 4(95), the best partner would be ESTJ 1(37)

For INFJ 4(95), the best partner would be... idk, because ESTP doesn't seem likely to be 1 or 2. Maybe ESTP type 8?

i can't imagine myself with an ESTJ ever. ever. i need someone with strong iNtuition and/or feelz who will appreciate and understand my weird creativity. i only ever hear of 4w5s with other iNtuitives. the one exception to this would be the INFP-ISFP pairing which occurs because of that deep Fi connection, i suppose.
i think INFP enneagram 9s tend to be the ones who partner with ESTJs + it generally seems to go up in flames anyway.

also, socionics is v confusing to me. still trying to figure out where i stand
 

Chthonic

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Jun 18, 2014
Messages
683
In a relevant tangent, I got a book out of the library on how to read my natal chart. I did an overlay between my chart and my last partner, it was scarily accurate. The lowdown....

- You will both feel an intense magnetic sexual pull. The attraction will be undeniable.
- You make a charming couple and can achieve great things together if you learn to work together.
- If you choose to live together it will lead to an irrevocable breakup because of your divergent tastes and goals.
- There will be a massive communication problem unless one of you compromises.

Pretty much sums up the relationship. It did help to realise that the chances of this working were very slim indeed so I could stop beating myself up over what went wrong and just accept it. Learning to read natal charts (as a tool for understanding and analysis rather than a divination tool) was one of the best things I did. I also read the other relationships in a chart overlay and what I found there related very closely to what happened. The book I used was called Everything Astrology and it's a good basic primer into this kind of analysis.
 

Lady_X

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Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
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784
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sx/sp
I'm an enfp 972 or 729 sx/sp dating an infp 469 sp/sx were super close but honestly the fi levels are outta hand and 4s are difficult people i think

plus two idealists in a relationship omg

i think we're just harder to please. No one ever does it exactly the way we want them to.
 

senza tema

nunc rosa cras fex
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Oct 23, 2014
Messages
2,432
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
471
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sx/sp
I'm an enfp 972 or 729 sx/sp dating an infp 469 sp/sx were super close but honestly the fi levels are outta hand and 4s are difficult people i think

plus two idealists in a relationship omg

i think we're just harder to please. No one ever does it exactly the way we want them to.

Are you a 7 or a 9?

I'll be perfectly honest and say the 4/7 combination is a challenging one for longterm relationships. Based on personal experience, I think the relationship is fun and exciting and adventurous and passionate at first but the 4 eventually wears the 7 down with relentless demands for emotional intensity all the time, the 7 starts feeling bored and trapped and reacts less and less, the 4 doesn't take the hint and keeps badgering while feeling wounded and unsatisfied, the 7 ultimately bails, and the 4 throws a "woe is me" pity party for one.

I'd actually be interested in hearing how you guys make it work if you are indeed a 7. I don't know much about 9/4 relationships, I think there would be another set of problems there but I have limited first hand experience. My inclination though is to say it sounds easier that 4/7.
 

Raffaella

bon vivant
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Jan 25, 2014
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945
i think INFP enneagram 9s tend to be the ones who partner with ESTJs + it generally seems to go up in flames anyway.

You keep projecting negative relationship experiences onto all INFPs. Not cool, dude. Speak for yourself not others.
 

lulabelle

New member
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Aug 24, 2014
Messages
255
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
You keep projecting negative relationship experiences onto all INFPs. Not cool, dude. Speak for yourself not others.

i'm just reporting what i see people say about these relationships on various forums. it is my understanding that the ESTJ-INFP dynamic is often quite a fraught one (and i simply have never seen this relationship with 4w5 INFPs). if you have different experiences or know others with different experiences, please chime in!
 

Raffaella

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i'm just reporting what i see people say about these relationships on various forums. it is my understanding that the ESTJ-INFP dynamic is often quite a fraught one (and i simply have never seen this relationship with 4w5 INFPs). if you have different experiences or know others with different experiences, please chime in!

Considering that most people seek out typology when in a relationship mostly due to conflicts and to understand their partners then you're more likely to hear the negative aspects but you need to be more realistic. You're only focusing on the negative, there are 7.162 billion people in the world, of which there are roughly 716 million ESTJs and roughly 286 million INFPs so we can assume there are about 15 million ESTJ-INFP relationships, do you think they're all unhappy? Do you think they're all INFP 9s?

And, this is irrelevant, but since you ask, yes, I'm attending the wedding of an INFP/ESTJ couple next month. They're not perfect (what couple is?) but they're content and compatible.
 

lulabelle

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MBTI Type
INFP
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sp/sx
Considering that most people seek out typology when in a relationship mostly due to conflicts and to understand their partners then you're more likely to hear the negative aspects but you need to be more realistic. You're only focusing on the negative, there are 7.162 billion people in the world, of which there are roughly 716 million ESTJs and roughly 286 million INFPs so we can assume there are about 15 million ESTJ-INFP relationships, do you think they're all unhappy? Do you think they're all INFP 9s?

And, this is irrelevant, but since you ask, yes, I'm attending the wedding of an INFP/ESTJ couple next month. They're not perfect (what couple is?) but they're content and compatible.

i don't 'need' to be anything. please, no more lectures. i'm perfectly aware that shared experiences online re: various type relationships are not the be-all end-all for understanding compatibility, but they're interesting to consider + i don't think they should be wholly disregarded. and obviously people speak about their relationships more to criticize, but this is true of every type, and so i'm considering this when i look at all the information out there.
it would be interesting to hear of ESTJ_INFP 4w5 relationships; alas, i haven't heard of any. and i don't think that just because there are a certain number of ESTJ-INFP relationships, there necessarily must be a certain amount of INFP 4w5s in them. from INFP 4w5s and ESTJs i know and have read about, we value very different things, tend to operate in very very different ways and seek very different kinds of support and resonance from our partners. do not worry; i'm not drowning in despair. i simply wanted to hear about INFP 4w5 relationships that have worked longterm, not ones that function in theory or whatever.
 

Lady_X

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Are you a 7 or a 9?

I'll be perfectly honest and say the 4/7 combination is a challenging one for longterm relationships. Based on personal experience, I think the relationship is fun and exciting and adventurous and passionate at first but the 4 eventually wears the 7 down with relentless demands for emotional intensity all the time, the 7 starts feeling bored and trapped and reacts less and less, the 4 doesn't take the hint and keeps badgering while feeling wounded and unsatisfied, the 7 ultimately bails, and the 4 throws a "woe is me" pity party for one.

I'd actually be interested in hearing how you guys make it work if you are indeed a 7. I don't know much about 9/4 relationships, I think there would be another set of problems there but I have limited first hand experience. My inclination though is to say it sounds easier that 4/7.

idk maybe 9 i haven't completely committed to the idea yet
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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sp/sx
Are you a 7 or a 9?

I'll be perfectly honest and say the 4/7 combination is a challenging one for longterm relationships. Based on personal experience, I think the relationship is fun and exciting and adventurous and passionate at first but the 4 eventually wears the 7 down with relentless demands for emotional intensity all the time, the 7 starts feeling bored and trapped and reacts less and less, the 4 doesn't take the hint and keeps badgering while feeling wounded and unsatisfied, the 7 ultimately bails, and the 4 throws a "woe is me" pity party for one.

I'd actually be interested in hearing how you guys make it work if you are indeed a 7. I don't know much about 9/4 relationships, I think there would be another set of problems there but I have limited first hand experience. My inclination though is to say it sounds easier that 4/7.

I certainly think it's promising, and any relationship is challenging anyway (if it's not, then boooring). Obviously INFPs like to imagine no one really suits us and that relationships will be some grandiose struggle of two human natures trying to merge and yet maintain their individual identities, because that's very romantic in a Bronte Sisters kind of way.

I found I grew tired of a 7 I dated and purposely became evasive and ornery to be rid of him. They require a lot of emotional energy, but some of that problem is my own (5 wing = stingy with emotional energy, yet likely being draining myself when I am not withdrawn due to core 4). I feel trapped by their demands on time and interaction, and when I seek to retreat for needed recovery or take a perverse view for its own sake, then they find me ornery. The average 7 can't deal with unpleasantness very well, so my ornery mode agitates them. I'm well aware I go into it when seeking space.... and I rejoiced when the space was made permanent, because I was feeling suffocated.

i can't imagine myself with an ESTJ ever. ever. i need someone with strong iNtuition and/or feelz who will appreciate and understand my weird creativity. i only ever hear of 4w5s with other iNtuitives. the one exception to this would be the INFP-ISFP pairing which occurs because of that deep Fi connection, i suppose.
i think INFP enneagram 9s tend to be the ones who partner with ESTJs + it generally seems to go up in flames anyway.

also, socionics is v confusing to me. still trying to figure out where i stand

I can...provided he is super hot. My imagination stretches that far :newwink:

I have yet to see an INFP 4 with an ESTJ also. I most often see & hear of INFP 4s with ExxP 7s or INTx 5s. That's just personal observation of a very small pool of people.

The inverse symmetry of the ESTJ 1 is intriguing, but I think an ENTJ 3 might provide the animus feel while still having the shared iNtuition and image triad focus (identity, forming a significance to others, etc).

Considering that most people seek out typology when in a relationship mostly due to conflicts and to understand their partners then you're more likely to hear the negative aspects but you need to be more realistic. You're only focusing on the negative, there are 7.162 billion people in the world, of which there are roughly 716 million ESTJs and roughly 286 million INFPs so we can assume there are about 15 million ESTJ-INFP relationships, do you think they're all unhappy? Do you think they're all INFP 9s?

And, this is irrelevant, but since you ask, yes, I'm attending the wedding of an INFP/ESTJ couple next month. They're not perfect (what couple is?) but they're content and compatible.

Where in the world did you get those numbers? :D

"Content and compatible" - that's my dream!
:ack!:
 

Qlip

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I'm stating to feel that love is only for the desperate and bored. Now that I feel relatively healthy and entertained, I don't get the urge to go outside of my own little orbit. I mean, I do things, I go out and about and interact with people but I feel like I keep missing the 'love boat' because I rarely run into people that engender excitement enough to change my course. My standards, not in 'quality', just in what I feel I connect to, and my self contentedness keeps me from starting casual relationships. I hear casual relationships turn into other things, but I guess I'll never find out.

Of course, I feel like I'm missing out, but I have to be me.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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[MENTION=10714]Qlip[/MENTION] "love is for the desperate and the bored" - how very mini xxTJ of you :D . It fits my cynical view of late, and I am both desperate and bored.

10479070_10152530009001162_1061580773306473630_n_zps7547d0f0.jpg
 

Raffaella

bon vivant
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Jan 25, 2014
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Where in the world did you get those numbers? :D

Assumptions, estimations and a probability tree, of course!


"Content and compatible" - that's my dream!
:ack!:

ROFL, I'm always impressed by the effort NFP E4s put into describing their ideal partner but horrified at how unrealistic it can be ("how can such a person exist?"). As a super lazy e9, my response is always the same: compatibility. Maybe I should hire an INFP e4 to write one for me.
 

Qlip

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[MENTION=10714]Qlip[/MENTION] "love is for the desperate and the bored" - how very mini xxTJ of you :D . It fits my cynical view of late, and I am both desperate and bored.

If you really were you would've already found somebody to fall madly in love with. ;)

I have been wondering lately if I need to brighten up some, especially if I am saying mini xxTJ things. Maybe happy, hopeful expression will turn me into a magnet that attracts all good things in life. (I could barely manage to type that)
 

Nara

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Mar 31, 2014
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WILD
i'm a 4w5 (4w5 9w8 5w4 sx/sp INFP) and am wondering with which types we tend to have good relationships. i am intensely withdrawn + feel like within me is an emotional ecosystem that can quite happily sustain + entertain itself forever yet i crave that perfectly understanding partner to resonate with me/it. what have your experiences in love been like? what is the enneagram and MBTI of your most compatible partner?

I'm looking for the same things (and according to my little experience, INFJs are a perfect match, perhaps for an INFP it would be ENFJs, but definitely a 4 idealist would be really at ease with another idealist).
I had this conversation with a friend of mine who didn't understand where comes from this need to be deeply understood by a significant other(and also the need of putting oneself in the other shoes to understand him/her totally). He told me I was telling myself a whole story, I was "outside", putting labels and words, instead of being "inside" and actually live it.

So the trick is I think the 5 wing causes to withdraw in the story we built on the relationship, despite the fact we need to connect on an emotionnal level first.

IMO, when we're not mature enough, we tend to gravitate towards cold intellectual mates (like 5s, quite comforting at first but in the long term it was frustrating) or on the contrary some sort of "shallow feelers" (and it'll be frustrating in the short term because of the "you think too much" who will pop up very soon). It's all about balance, your mind needs an interesting and stimulating partner of course but the real connection comes from the heart...

[So, I'd say - ironically - "don't think too much" about MBTI types and trust your guts. ]
 

lulabelle

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I'm looking for the same things (and according to my little experience, INFJs are a perfect match, perhaps for an INFP it would be ENFJs, but definitely a 4 idealist would be really at ease with another idealist).
I had this conversation with a friend of mine who didn't understand where comes from this need to be deeply understood by a significant other(and also the need of putting oneself in the other shoes to understand him/her totally). He told me I was telling myself a whole story, I was "outside", putting labels and words, instead of being "inside" and actually live it.

So the trick is I think the 5 wing causes to withdraw in the story we built on the relationship, despite the fact we need to connect on an emotionnal level first.

IMO, when we're not mature enough, we tend to gravitate towards cold intellectual mates (like 5s, quite comforting at first but in the long term it was frustrating) or on the contrary some sort of "shallow feelers" (and it'll be frustrating in the short term because of the "you think too much" who will pop up very soon). It's all about balance, your mind needs an interesting and stimulating partner of course but the real connection comes from the heart...

[So, I'd say - ironically - "don't think too much" about MBTI types and trust your guts. ]

INFJs are cool but they seem to have a LOT of issues with INFPs. when i do hear of the few examples of this partnership working longterm it seems to be a LOT of work, and the INFPs aren't 4w5s.

my sister is an ENFJ and i tend to like people of the type but i just feel too.... weird for them. i feel like they tend to lack this kind of slight edge i need in my partner. i don't think they're inherently bland but maybe they're bland in the ways i need them to be a bit more unconventional/strange. i think if i were an e9 peacemaker do-gooder type INFP i might see more potential in this partnership

i do think that it's trickier for an INFP 4w5 to find fulfilling longterm love. maybe i'll just end up with a male version of me ;)
 
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