• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Traditional Enneagram] Trouble Ascertaining my Enneagram Type

pmj85

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
130
Hi all,

Before I go any further, I’d like to state that I am unquestionably an INFJ. I mention this in the event of the MBTI / Enneagram having some kind of proven correlation. With that in mind…

I've been having some trouble nailing down my enneagram type. I recently typed this up on another forum:



TL;DR – I thought I may be a five because I exhibit many of the traits, though after frolicking gaily trough some of the five sections of forums it became painfully obvious that they’re a far more intelligent, analytical bunch than I am.

The test at enneagram.net has me pegged as a 9. In fact, it proffered two results – nine and… er, nine. So that would seem pretty conclusive ;p I may yet purchase the full test.

I just don’t ‘get’ the core motivations / fears. I can get behind indolence being my vice, but at what point does that stop being dominant Ni and begin being an enneagram trait? Also, I’m not as conflict avoidant as the descriptions would have you believe. I certainly don’t look for conflict – and I can be pretty blind to it when it only affects myself – but anyone crossing my friends or family will be dealt with mercilessly.

Looking at the description here:

Enneagram Personality Type 9: The Peacemaker

There are so, so many things that make me screw my nose up in objection. I assume I’m easy going, yet my wife tells me that I’m an argumentative git who will readily call people out on their bullshit, though she concedes that I am typically very diplomatic about it (unless I know the person well).

I’m accepting to a degree, but overall I much prefer that people leave me the hell alone. When I /have/ to deal with someone I'm typically warm and accepting, though sometimes it's very difficult for my to disguise my contempt. Not usually aimed at the person in question, but at having to expend time and energy dealing with such an inane pursuit. Idle chatter, for example.

It's also stated that nines are down to earth. Ha! I'm floating around in the stratosphere somewhere. Also perhaps worthy of note is that people tend to perceive that I am incredibly confident, but quietly so. When she first met me, my wife had no idea that at my core I had crippling self esteem issues. Most people have no idea that up until recently I had absolutely zero confidence... I even managed to fool an audience 200 strong during one public speaking event; on the photos I look absolutely nonchalant - in reality I was bricking myself so hard I thought I'd pass out... FWIW.

Ugh, I dunno. I could sit here and ramble on forever and a day – it wouldn’t get me anywhere.

9w8? Typically chilled out, will readily take a stand when required. Please help - I'm completely dumbfounded :(

[EDIT] I've been told that I'm a six because I turn to others for help... but isn't that A) normal and B) probably linked to Fe first and foremost?
 

Kullervo

Permabanned
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
3,298
MBTI Type
N/A
E5 is unusual in the Enneagram system - it actually does have a correlation, around 85%, with MBTI types. IxTx types in this case.

I think that as a Feeler, you would be more likely to be a 9w8.
 

pmj85

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
130
Thanks, and yes - I had noticed that a lot of E5s tended to be the types you mention. I am a somewhat analytical person, but certainly not to the extent of those guys and gals.

9w8 seems about right I guess; I'm fairly chilled out until someone really steps on my toes or pushes me around, at which point I tend to get up in their grill about stuff. I guess that'd be classed as an 8 response? I can also be somewhat demanding when I'm stressed.
 

Kullervo

Permabanned
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
3,298
MBTI Type
N/A
Thanks, and yes - I had noticed that a lot of E5s tended to be the types you mention. I am a somewhat analytical person, but certainly not to the extent of those guys and gals.

9w8 seems about right I guess; I'm fairly chilled out until someone really steps on my toes or pushes me around, at which point I tend to get up in their grill about stuff. I guess that'd be classed as an 8 response? I can also be somewhat demanding when I'm stressed.

Enneagram doesn't describe how you act on a conscious so much as an unconscious, more primal level. Basically, if you want to discover the Enneagram find out what your core fears and defence mechanisms are.

I just mentioned that somebody who sees the world primarily in an emotional way is unlikely to be a 5. 5s habitually detach from their emotions and have trouble expressing them. Put it this way - if you are a 5, then you are highly unlikely to be an INFJ.
 

pmj85

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
130
Apologies for this post - I'm in work so this is a pretty much 'shat out' effort.

Enneagram doesn't describe how you act on a conscious so much as an unconscious, more primal level. Basically, if you want to discover the Enneagram find out what your core fears and defence mechanisms are.

I just mentioned that somebody who sees the world primarily in an emotional way is unlikely to be a 5. 5s habitually detach from their emotions and have trouble expressing them. Put it this way - if you are a 5, then you are highly unlikely to be an INFJ.

Thanks for clearing that up. Also, I just noticed you are a fellow Ni-dom; I know a couple of awesome INTJs and very much enjoy chatting with you guys... though your Te 'data-bursts' can be bloody hard to keep up with ;) As an aside, yes - I am an INFJ; I have been typed as such by Jungian theoreticians / analysts and have also, through my own study of Jung's Vol. 6, been able to reach the same conclusion. That aside...

I feel that when dealing with an INFJ, we enter a bit of a grey area when it comes to emotions. You can probably use that Te of yours to understand / clarify what I'm saying far better than I can. Here's the thing - Fe extraverts all the emotional content we have, often meaning that we're devoid of any internal 'feelings', so although we appear to be emotional externally we're actually quite 'still' internally. It is because of this innate detachment from internal emotional states that I can identify with E5. I believe this is why we make excellent counsellors; creating that defensive gulf between client and counsellor comes naturally. Even if my own family and friends are losing their shit emotionally, I am able to completely detach and do whatever it is that needs to be done.

As bizarre as it may sound, it is my experience that INTJs and ENTJs experience more emotional content internally than we INFJs do. I know that if my Fe isn't engaged I am one massively aloof arsehole. It feels like a sort of void; I feel as though something is missing. I'm married to an ENFJ and we have the most hilarious conversations pertaining to how we 'feel' about stuff:

Me: "How are you feeling today?"

Wife: "Er... ok, yes. Good! Very good!"

Wife: "How are you?"

Me: "Er... yeah. I mean. I...

Yeah."

Welcome to an Fe household :shock:

You're right, of course - I'm not an E5. I think E9 is probably apt, though I'll remain open to other possibilities until I nail it.

Cheers :)
 

Lexicon

Temporal Mechanic
Staff member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
12,342
MBTI Type
JINX
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
(I had to do this)

 

pmj85

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
130
I'm British! Your comedy is irrelevant to me - we are the masters of teh funnies ;)
 

Lexicon

Temporal Mechanic
Staff member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
12,342
MBTI Type
JINX
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Ew, it's not my comedy. . . :unsure:

..both certainly do beat American, though.

I'll stop derailing your thread now.

:drwho:
 

pmj85

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
130
Pft, feel free to de-rail away. Stimulating conversation is never a bad thing (so long as the core issue is eventually addressed :p).

This thread helped to fuel the confusion: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/25141-triad-definitions.html

I'll highlight the bits which seem most relevant to me:

Instinctive- (Eight, Nine, One)

Concerned with: Resistance and Control of the Environment

Have Issues with: Aggression and Repression

Seeks: Autonomy

Wants to: Maintain a felt sense of self

Underlying Feeling: Rage

-Contrasting Qualities-
Personality (Hidden from others)
Boundaries
Tension, numbness
Defending
Dissociating
Irritation
(This is how they resist the present)

Essence (Conscious about this)
Connected with life
Relaxed, open
Inner strength
Grounded
Acceptance
(The above is how they are oriented in the here and now)

Thinking- (Five, Six, Seven)

Concerned with: Strategies and Beliefs

Have Issues with: Insecurity and Anxiety

Seeks: Security

Wants to: Find a sense of inner guidance and support

Underlying Feeling: Fear

-Contrasting qualities-

Personality (Hidden From Others)
Mental Chatter
Figuring it out

Strategies, doubt
Anxiety and fear
Anticipation
(The above is their how they orient themselves in the future)

Essence (Conscious about this)
Quiet mind
Inner guidance
Knowing, clarity
Support and steadiness
Open to present moment
(The above is how they are oriented in the here and now)

So there's a definite conflict.

I've been doing a lot of introspecting these past few days as I've started a course in counselling; being self-aware is paramount, and my first homework consists of questions which I have to 'go deep' in order to answer. I can imagine an Fi user being so comfortable with it, but as an Fe aux it's bloody hard.

Sned halp :(
 

Kullervo

Permabanned
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
3,298
MBTI Type
N/A
I want to take back a little of what I said, after thinking about it a little more myself and seeing your latest posts. You are a guy, so you could be a 5w4 INFJ I suppose. However, I'd like to point out that 5 is the rarest Enneagram type. So if you are 50/50 between 5 and 9, the chances are that you are probably a 9.
 

pmj85

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
130
You mean I'm not the rarest MBTI and enneagram type?

SELF IDENTITY CRISIS! MELTDOWN! MOSTEST BADDEST TERRIBLEST THING!

/type 4 ;)
 

Kullervo

Permabanned
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
3,298
MBTI Type
N/A
You mean I'm not the rarest MBTI and enneagram type?

SELF IDENTITY CRISIS! MELTDOWN! MOSTEST BADDEST TERRIBLEST THING!

/type 4 ;)

There can only ever be one 4. Only one. I get pangs of it shall we say...I do like typing people as Sensors, 6s and 9s. After all who enjoys strangers stepping on their turf?

In all seriousness, I do actually think that you are more likely to be a 9 than a 5, but in the end, you are the only one who can decide on an Enneatype. I find it a lot harder to assess than MBTI.
 

pmj85

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
130
yet somehow I knew it before I pressed the button.

Dominant Ni, yo.

If it wasn't for the 'compulsive conflict avoidance' I'd be much more in favour of Type 9. I am conflict avoidant to a degree. Sometimes avoiding conflict makes sense; why antagonise a person / situation when there's really no need? My 'aggression' or want to tackle conflict head on manifests chiefly when someone is being a reprehensible douche bag. I'll always let things slide once or twice (unless someone is being relentlessly beat down) but at what point does that stop being decency/patience and instead become 'avoidance'?

As for 'going with the flow', hmm. Fe, or 9?

I'm open and receptive, I guess. Fe, or 9?

I'm kind and considerate... Fe, or 9?

I'm likeable (apparently). Fe, or 9?

So on and so forth :shrug:
 

pmj85

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
130
As an aside, it may be worth noting that I /must/ be more assertive than the Type 9 descriptions would have you believe based on my marriage. My wife is an ENFJ and most likely a Type 8. She's lovely and all, but holy shit does she trample people. Inadvertently of course, but she does it all the same. She's a very domineering and powerful presence, commanding and 'no shit' through and through.

We work because in spite of being a good few years her junior, I stand up to her. She'd eat most guys I know for breakfast - many wouldn't put up with her. I do, and I command her respect because of it. She's quite often put back in her place when she steps over the line.

No small feat, believe me :p
 

pmj85

New member
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
130
You know what?

Five Stacks | The Enneagram ...info from the underground.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that I am indeed a 5, albeit a 'not-very-cerebral' one. That being said, I am often described as being very cerebral by friends and family; I myself do not see this being the case, however - I associate being cerebral with a concern for logic and the pursuit of academic success, which isn't really me... I just find 'odd' subjects interesting and may be inclined to read about them extensively.

Hmm. Seriously, some of those subtypes are screaming out to me.

One of the biggest flags is the Type 5 relationship dynamic. They need space yet wish to be intimate, often oscillating (Sexual / Social subtypes) between the two, being intensely intimate one minute and basically wanting the world to fuck right off the next. That is me all over! Also, the 'fear of invasion' thing is, again, me all over; the descriptions speak of how this can be an issue within relationships, and it is. These days I have a fair handle on it, but back when myself and my wife started seeing each other I would become incensed if she had the 'audacity' to phone me whilst I was engaged in one of my pursuits.

"Oh hi! I'm just out shopping and thought I'd ring you because I'm bored".

*Immediate meltdown*

There are a plethora of other behaviours / motivations which I identify with, too.

I dunno. I'm not there yet, but whatever my Type is, if it ain't 5 it's bloody close.

[EDIT] I just found this. Relevant to me = bold, and I'm also basing some of this on how those close to me perceive me:

Five
Intense
Strong-minded
Argumentative
Resistant
Suspicious
Focused
Penetrating
Theory
Particularities
Pessimistic
High-strung
Disconnect from others
Defensive
Complexify things
Discriminating
Detach

Nine
Soft
Easy-going
Comforting
Receptive
Trusting
Diffuse
Unfocused
Fantasy
Generalities
Optimistic

Peaceful
Merge with others
Accomodating
Simplify things
Accepting
Space-out


This is not easy :p
 
Top