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[Traditional Enneagram] Common Traits for Enneagram Types

Werebudgie

I want my account deleted
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
398
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
1. I myself strongly encourage anyone seeking to understand this specific thread to place it in the larger context of yeghor's overall participation on this site. To my eyes, there's a rather clear pattern with multiple variations - all centering around the same basic goal: for yeghor to to "confirm" his various self-referential thought and belief structures by any means necessary and using various strategies to reject external realities that don't fit. My own time/energy/interest is limited, so I'll leave it to others to investigate and better articulate this bigger picture, if anyone is so inclined.

eta2:

Wow. You folks are just freaking addicted to negative drama, aren't you?

I've now deleted the part of my comment that kicked off the ongoing drama below, since apparently striking it out as I did last night (trying to be polite and leave what people responded to) didn't make a dent.

What a cesspool of dysfunction this site is.

----------------------------------------
retaining this part:

I'm not sure if looking at it from that perspective would increase collective clarity or not. If not, please ignore this part as not useful.

------------------------------------------

and this comment from the edit last night:

eta1: *shrug* I guess the whole "here's one possible angle of vision on the situation, please ignore if it doesn't assist collective clarity" approach just isn't how things roll on this site and there simply has to be a discussion. Hopefully the three comments below are sufficient to put the crossed-out perspective aside as not useful for clarity and the discussion can move on. Good luck, everyone.
 
Last edited:

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
1. I myself strongly encourage anyone seeking to understand this specific thread to place it in the larger context of yeghor's overall participation on this site. To my eyes, there's a rather clear pattern with multiple variations - all centering around the same basic goal: for yeghor to to "confirm" his various self-referential thought and belief structures by any means necessary and using various strategies to reject external realities that don't fit. My own time/energy/interest is limited, so I'll leave it to others to investigate and better articulate this bigger picture, if anyone is so inclined.

2. I will also say this: since this site tends to push for the framing of almost everything in terms of type (whether or not type is what's actually going on): Given some arguments made some time ago by [MENTION=20385]Alea_iacta_est[/MENTION] about yeghor's possible MBTI type (I was skeptical), plus the results of the enneagram test I referred to earler in the thread:

I actually wouldn't be surprised if what we're seeing with yeghor is a very unhealthy enneagram 5 using INFP cognitive processes - specifically, Te-inf aggressively serving Fi-dom beliefs/values - in service to the e5-sourced unwellness. I mention this because I wonder what the situation looks like if we consider that the apparent "thought structure" is not primarily as sourced in Ti, but rather sourced in a Fi-dom internal structure of core beliefs/values - with inferior Te providing the T flavor in service to those beliefs/values, and very unhealthy enneagram 5 dynamics driving the whole mess.

I'm not sure if looking at it from that perspective would increase collective clarity or not. If not, please ignore this part as not useful.

No. That's not how Fi/Te works when unhealthy or otherwise. As I noted in my rep, this fits a particular INFJ pattern I've been pointing out for some time, rather perfectly. This pattern often includes inferior Se aggressiveness (asserting something as unquestionably true, as if tangible & "right in front of your eyes" & accusing others of blindness if they can't "see' it; but this is NOT tangible Se data), but with poor Se perception (no sense of CONTEXT outside of internal Ni vision & not involving actual tangible data), plus using common values (ie. how do we rate these types?) to assert personal value according to what is socially ideal (just enough Fe to boost the ego; unaware of shadow Fi), and as noted, rather shaky & hilariously bad Ti theorizing.

Funny how people always want to peg unhealthy INFJs as INFP though :rolleyes:
 
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011235813

Guest
I agree with [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] on this. I don't think [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION] is an INFP by any stretch. He doesn't spit out fact after unrelated fact in an incoherent and angry fashion while also thinking and stridently asserting that everyone who disagrees with him is a horrible, horrible person. He's fixated on his own idiosyncratic perceptions rather than his judgements.
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
I agree with [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] on this. I don't think [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION] is an INFP by any stretch. He doesn't spit out fact after unrelated fact in an incoherent and angry fashion while also thinking and stridently asserting that everyone who disagrees with him is a horrible, horrible person. He's fixated on his own idiosyncratic perceptions rather than his judgements.

Same. I generally don't question peoples types (as I largely don't care much anyway) unless it's very blatantly off. For the most part I'll just take their word for it unless they've shown to have very poor self-awareness. Even then, he fits into INFJ very well from what I have observed so far. I am not convinced on enneagram, and I could see arguments for several of them, but again I just take peoples word for it for the most part.
 

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
This pattern often includes inferior Se aggressiveness (asserting something as unquestionably true, as if tangible & "right in front of your eyes" & accusing others of blindness if they can't "see' it; but this is NOT tangible Se data)

I don't accuse others of blindness but I express that I am frustrated...because IRL I don't experience any frustration to explaining these things to other Ni users as I have in this forum...

I think you've missed all the discussions where I've tried to explain my perceptions and was called names and stuff... That part doesn't suit the way you wanna see INFJs so that you can continue devaluing them (one INFJ in particular I guess) so you can feel better about yourself...

Hating groups based on association has been called many things in history such as racism, misandry, misogyny and hate speech... You are putting these forward as honest criticism but they are tainted by your feelings... you deliberately emphasize the negative parts and refrain from mentioning positives... so it's hate speech...

When and where did you first observe this pattern IRL?

but with poor Se perception (no sense of CONTEXT outside of internal Ni vision & not involving actual tangible data)

So enneagram type descriptions and MBTI functions don't count as Se data? What do you suggest that I should do to explain my perception about things?

plus using common values (ie. how do we rate these types?) to assert personal value according to what is socially ideal (just enough Fe to boost the ego; unaware of shadow Fi), and as noted, rather shaky & hilariously bad Ti theorizing.

The bolded is evidence that this is tainted by your hurt and negative feelings... Get over with it... How many years has it been now 2-3?

And what's this about the common values and Fe boost? What do you suggest that I do instead? Is this a bad thing? When and when not?

Funny how people always want to peg unhealthy INFJs as INFP though :rolleyes:

This is a ridiculously funny and entertainingly absurd generalization... Funny how people always want to hate other people based on association so that they can feel better about themselves...
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
I don't accuse others of blindness but I express that I am frustrated...because IRL I don't experience any frustration to explaining these things to other Ni users as I have in this forum...

I think you've missed all the discussions where I've tried to explain my perceptions and was called names and stuff... That part doesn't suit the way you wanna see INFJs so that you can continue devaluing them (one INFJ in particular I guess) so you can feel better about yourself...

Hating groups based on association has been called many things in history such as racism, misandry, misogyny and hate speech... You are putting these forward as honest criticism but they are tainted by your feelings... you deliberately emphasize the negative parts and refrain from mentioning positives... so it's hate speech...

When and where did you first observe this pattern IRL?

So enneagram type descriptions and MBTI functions don't count as Se data? What do you suggest that I should do to explain my perception about things?

The bolded is evidence that this is tainted by your hurt and negative feelings... Get over with it... How many years has it been now 2-3?

And what's this about the common values and Fe boost? What do you suggest that I do instead? Is this a bad thing? When and when not?

This is a ridiculously funny and entertainingly absurd generalization... Funny how people always want to hate other people based on association so that they can feel better about themselves...

Where to I begin?

First, you're assuming a lot of stuff about OA, and her intentions, and it's really really unfair. I find it insulting and nasty TBH (again). She wasn't even replying to you. She was explaining what she saw as a logical inconsistency in someone elses explanation. It was quite objective from what I could tel.

Yeah, OA is pretty upfront about not caring for INFJ's, but having a bais does not preclude one from being able to explain reasonings. She also has external, valid reasons for having her bias's. If just for the fact that misinformation about MBTI and functions (which you spread an INSANE amount of), keeps getting thrown out there that she's addressed in the past. It's tiring. As she has explained in the past, there has been slanted views towards what the functions are, and how they work. From running the INFJ forums years ago, I have seen this first hand as well. A bit different from OA, but there's enough there to see that's she's valid. Also, what she is saying is not hate speech. At all. A bit rough around the edges and a bit hard for some to take in (which is her style anyway), but that's it. She also can't possibly state or explain where she first saw this IRL. That's rediculously unfair to ask, because it's something almost no one could answer that.

And I can totally understand why she is annoyed by INFJ's being pegged as INFP's if they're doing something or being shitty. It's just bad practice in general to "re-type" someone in the midst of a heated discussion, it just pissed people off nearly every time. Mix in the misinformation spread about Fi and INFP's, this is going to create a sore point.
 

wildflower

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
317
if you just want to know what the professionals say, rather than what we think, then you can just read the back of the riso/hudson book :shrug:

IMG_0181.jpg
 

Rampant

New member
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
44
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
1. I myself strongly encourage anyone seeking to understand this specific thread to place it in the larger context of yeghor's overall participation on this site. To my eyes, there's a rather clear pattern with multiple variations - all centering around the same basic goal: for yeghor to to "confirm" his various self-referential thought and belief structures by any means necessary and using various strategies to reject external realities that don't fit. My own time/energy/interest is limited, so I'll leave it to others to investigate and better articulate this bigger picture, if anyone is so inclined.

eta2:

Wow. You folks are just freaking addicted to negative drama, aren't you?

I've now deleted the part of my comment that kicked off the ongoing drama below, since apparently striking it out as I did last night (trying to be polite and leave what people responded to) didn't make a dent.

What a cesspool of dysfunction this site is.

----------------------------------------
retaining this part:

I'm not sure if looking at it from that perspective would increase collective clarity or not. If not, please ignore this part as not useful.

------------------------------------------

and this comment from the edit last night:

eta1: *shrug* I guess the whole "here's one possible angle of vision on the situation, please ignore if it doesn't assist collective clarity" approach just isn't how things roll on this site and there simply has to be a discussion. Hopefully the three comments below are sufficient to put the crossed-out perspective aside as not useful for clarity and the discussion can move on. Good luck, everyone.

I think Yeghor fits the posting and cognitive pattern of an INFJ quite well. Just because he paints an unflattering picture doesn't mean he's not the right type.

Also, don't be so sensitive.
 

Werebudgie

I want my account deleted
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
398
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Also, don't be so sensitive.

I do understand that people who are into this site don't feel the dysfunctional cesspool nature of it because that's normal here. People who like the site probably don't notice it and/or aren't bothered by it due to experiencing it as normal and unremarkable. But from the POV of someone like me who is used to using type/function information to achieve ongoing positive results in mutual understanding and communication in a real life romantic relationship and various other personal connections/dialogues with my friends, this site is just chock-full of dysfunction.

It's like walking into a polluted-to-the-point-of-toxicity environment as someone accustomed to breathing non-toxic air as a default. People here may not actually realize how sick this place is because for whatever specific reasons, it's normal to you to have type/function talk linked to the toxicity and drama and psychological unhealthiness that characterizes so much of the type and function talk on this site. But it's not normal to me given how I use it in my real life - so yeah, from the vantage point of this site and what is normal for it, I am functionally very sensitive to it, for sure.

Given the practical and positive uses of type/function concepts in my real life, I myself strongly prefer where I'm coming from over what's normal on this site. I love being able to use typology to help me more clearly understand and communicate with people I care about and interact with in my actual life. It's a wonderful, eminently practical tool for use in that context. And I'm fine being sensitive to the kind of toxicity that permeates this site as a side effect of what's normal for me given my useful practical real life experience base.

By the way - in case it's not clear, it's 100% fine with me that my weird idea about yeghor's type is incorrect. It wasn't about flattering/unflattering, I know people here play those games all the time but for me it was neutral. I'm in love with an INFP and we simply don't compete for "good identity" based on type or functions the way people do on this site - so that kind of bullshit is pretty foreign to me despite its prevalence on this site. What I wrote was just a different possible angle of vision for me that caught my interest as a possible tool for clarity - particularly, the shift of perspective that came with the thought that perhaps there were subtlely present but strong underlying values rather than simply crappy attempts at logic as part of what's going on here. It's really fine with me that that isn't useful.

However. What I don't like is the fact that this then becomes a topic unto itself when what it was meant for was a practical-minded "Hey, does this angle of vision assist collective clarity? If not please ignore!" Just a sort of: "Does this work to increase our collective understanding? No? Okay great, let's move on to what does work!" But that approach simply doesn't work in this environment.

===================

eta: As I think more about it and compare it to my real life, practical and useful interactions with my INFP partner: This whole "competing for goodness based on type identity" drama on this site is truly ridiculous to me.

Given how I use the concepts and language in practical ways in my life, it seems blindlingly obvious to me that cognitive processes are only one part of any given person's makeup. My sense of yeghor is of pretty substantial psychological unhealthiness. While such psychological unhealthiness often tends to express itself through the information processing apparatus of cognitive funtions, IMO it is not sourced there for anyone - it's sourced in other layers of psychological damage and dysfunction.

All of which to say: the whole type-identity drama that's so common here is so completely pointless in my view that even knowing it's the norm here doesn't help me really get my head around it.

But as I see it: Of course there's no need for me to associate myself with yeghor's unhealthiness if our MBTI type is the same. I don't feel like he needs to be another type for me to feel okay about my own information processing apparatus. That's truly ridiculous to me. In my lived experience over time, my partner (INFP) and I (INFJ) both vary in the level of psychological wellness that can be communicated in part "through" our respective cognitive processes. It's not better or worse to be INFJ or INFP, it's just different and we use the language and concepts to understand and move well given those differences. That's all.

The identity-based drama and dysfunction around type/cognitive function discussions, related to some sort of weird competition to locate specific types as good or bad or whatever - seriously, it's ridiculous to me. Such a waste of time, energy and attention, in my view. IMO the language and concepts are so much more useful when not mired in this crap. But this crap is where the energy and focus and attention inevitably goes in discussions on this site.
 

Eilonwy

Vulnerability
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
7,051
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I do understand that people who are into this site don't feel the dysfunctional cesspool nature of it because that's normal here. People who like the site probably don't notice it and/or aren't bothered by it due to experiencing it as normal and unremarkable. But from the POV of someone like me who is used to using type/function information to achieve ongoing positive results in mutual understanding and communication in a real life romantic relationship and various other personal connections/dialogues with my friends, this site is just chock-full of dysfunction.

So why stay? Go find a site that's more to your liking. It's just an internet site. Why make it your mission to fix it?
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Can't we just do Yeghor's exercise according to Yeghor's instructions, and leave it at that?
 

Werebudgie

I want my account deleted
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
398
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
So why stay? Go find a site that's more to your liking. It's just an internet site. Why make it your mission to fix it?

yeah, good question. Best answer is: I've learned to follow my gut instincts when it comes to this kind of thing as I've found that over time there's generally a method to my madness in situations like this even though it seems like "why the hell do such a thing?" I'm reasonably sure that it's not about fixing this site, though. I truly don't think this site can be fixed. I think it's way too far gone for that. I hope things get better for you, by the way. I've heard that you were really different in earlier times and it's too bad things had changed by the time I came to this site.
 

Qlip

Post Human Post
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
8,464
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'm E4, I picked Intelligent, Persevering, Encouraging to describe myself. They don't really match up with your e4 words.

I attribute Perseverance to my enneatype, given my stacking, e4 sp/sx, sometimes referred to as the 'Dauntless' type.
My momma gave me my brain.
And Encouraging came from the ENFP.
 

Eilonwy

Vulnerability
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
7,051
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
yeah, good question. Best answer is: I've learned to follow my gut instincts when it comes to this kind of thing as I've found that over time there's generally a method to my madness in situations like this even though it seems like "why the hell do such a thing?" I'm reasonably sure that it's not about fixing this site, though. I truly don't think this site can be fixed. I think it's way too far gone for that. I hope things get better for you, by the way. I've heard that you were really different in earlier times and it's too bad things had changed by the time I came to this site.

Aw, thanks so much for your sympathy for poor, different-from-earlier-times me. I'm just one of the many dysfunctional people on this site that needs to be pitied and enlightened to my dysfunctional state of mind. As I understand it, I've been brain-washed, manipulated, and mislead into self-flagellation and no longer have a mind of my own. Maybe it would be kindest to just let me wallow in my self-delusional little world along with the rest of those suffering some sort of mental illness.
 

yeghor

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276
Type 7 lacking in = Dutifulness Responsibleness and Self-discipline

Type 1 strong in = Conscientousness, Dutifulness, Meticulousness (Responsibleness?) and Self-discipline and Self-criticalness

So is type 1 the opposite of type 7?

What MBTI types are commonly correlated with enneagram 7? What does that tell us?
 
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