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[Traditional Enneagram] Enneagram Type and MBTI function correlations...

yeghor

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Dec 21, 2013
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4,276
I've been reading enneagram descriptions and trying to form rough correlations between them and mbti functions... My speculations as to that are as follows:

Gut
Enneagram 8 - Se
Enneagram 9 - Si
Enneagram 1 - Ni

Heart
Enneagram 2 - Fe-aux
Enneagram 3 - Fe-dom
Enneagram 4 - Fi

Head
Enneagram 5 - Ti
Enneagram 6 - Te
Enneagram 7 - Ne

Based on this, I'd expect following main enneagram types for MBTI types:

ISTJ - 9w8 or 9w1 with a head second type
ISFJ - 9w8 or 9w1 with a heart second type
INTJ - 1w9 or 1w2 with a head second type
INFJ - 1w9 or 1w2 with a heart second type

ISTP - 5w4 or 5w6 with a gut second type
INTP - 5w4 or 5w6 with a head second type
ISFP - 4w3 or 4w5 with a gut second type
INFP - 4w3 or 4w5 with a head second type

ESTJ - 6w5 or 6w7 with a gut second type
ENTJ - 6w5 or 6w7 with a heart gut? second type
ENFJ - 3w2 or 3w4 with a gut second type
ESFJ - 3w2 or 3w4 with a heart gut? s second type

ESTP - 8w7 or 8w9 with a head second type
ESFP - 8w7 or 8w9 with a heart second type
ENTP - 7w6 or 7w8 with a head second type
ENFP - 7w6 or 7w8 with a heart second type

 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Courtesy of [MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5627]BlackCat[/MENTION]:

MBTI-Enneagramnowing-Correlation-PersonalityCafeData2.jpg


tumblr_moaalulBiB1sq3u8zo1_1280.jpg


So, (loosely) I'd say:

1 - J (Je)
2 - FJ (Fe)
3 - E (Xe)
4 - IF
5 - IT
6 - N/A
7- EP (Pe)
8 - ET
9 - I (Xi)
 

Zarathustra

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Messages
8,110
So, (loosely) I'd say:

1 - J (Je)
2 - FJ (Fe)
3 - E (Xe)
4 - IF
5 - IT
6 - N/A
7- EP (Pe)
8 - ET
9 - I (Xi)

This is much better than [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]'s (which is overly simplistic, inflexible, myopic, and doesn't even have one for 2s [which are obviously correlated to FJ {and, after that, F in general (2s are Agreeable, Ts are not [BIG 5])}]).

Yours, Chandler (is it ok to use your name? I seriously can't say "Chanaynay" - if not, let me know, and I'll take it out), is totally acceptable and on point, but, if there were any comments I would make they would be:

- there are a decent number of IF 5s
- e6 can really be any type, but seems to be more associated with Pi dominance than anything else
- e8 is a good deal more associated with ETJ (and especially ENTJ) than it is with ETP (and especially ENTP)
- also, there are actually a decent amount of EF 8s (not nearly as many as ETs, but enough)
- e9 is more associated with IFs than ITs, but yes, Xi is appropriate
 

yeghor

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Dec 21, 2013
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This is much better than [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]'s (which is overly simplistic, inflexible, myopic, and doesn't even have one for 2s [which are obviously correlated to FJ {and, after that, F in general (2s are Agreeable, Ts are not [BIG 5])}]).

Yours, Chandler (is it ok to use your name? I seriously can't say "Chanaynay" - if not, let me know, and I'll take it out), is totally acceptable and on point, but, if there were any comments I would make they would be:

- there are a decent number of IF 5s
- e6 can really be any type, but seems to be more associated with Pi dominance than anything else
- there are actually a decent amount of EF 8s (not as many as ETs, but enough)
- e9 is more associated with IFs than ITs, but yes, Xi is appropriate

Why doesn't the numbers in the chart by each type vertically add up to 100%?
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,729
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I don't buy it, but I do like that Fi-Ne-Si lines up perfectly with my tritype.
 

yeghor

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Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,276


Thanks... But the data in the charts are coming from people's reported typings I guess...

I based my assumptions on enneagram descriptions... Do (plural) you think for instance enneagram 1 description fits Te or Fe?

Yeah, I am aware my model is very simplistic...it doesn't reflect the transition between functions...
 

Zarathustra

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Yeah, I am aware my model is very simplistic...it doesn't reflect the transition between functions...

Its flaws are more numerous than just that.

The very philosophical underpinnings of it are flawed.

You should not simply try to understand how Jungian types fit into enneagram types on 1:1 basis.

They are looking at very different parts of our psychology, and thus do not work and stack up this way.

You should try to understand what it means to be, for example, an ENFJ 8, or an INFP 5, or an ISTP 9, etc.
 

yeghor

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Its flaws are more numerous than just that.

I am not trying to fault find... So if we multiply the percentages by 1.4 roughly... About 40% of self-reported INFJs turn out to be enneagram 4s... whereas only 20% of them are of enneagram types 1 and 2...

If "I" assume that enneagram 1 and 2 reportings are actual INFJs, this means that only 1 in 5 INFJs online is an actual INFJ...
 

Zarathustra

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I am not trying to fault find... So if we multiply the percentages by 1.4 roughly... About 40% of self-reported INFJs turn out to be enneagram 4s... whereas only 20% of them are of enneagram types 1 and 2...

If "I" assume that enneagram 1 and 2 reportings are actual INFJs, this means that only 1 in 5 INFJs online is an actual INFJ...

Online, joining a personality forum, and self-reporting both enneatype and MBTI type.

Honestly, I don't know that many INFJ 1s.

I believe there are some here, but most INFJs here, who are actually INFJs, are 4s.

There are also a lot of real INFJs here who are 6s, and also good number of 5s.

All of these three e-types are more common here than INFJ e1s.
 

yeghor

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Online, joining a personality forum, and self-reporting both enneatype and MBTI type.

Honestly, I don't know that many INFJ 1s.

I believe there are some here, but most INFJs here, who are actually INFJs, are 4s.

There are also a lot of real INFJs here who are 6s, and also good number of 5s.

All of these three e-types are more common here than INFJ e1s.

How can you be so sure that 4s, 5s and 6s are actually INFJs?
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
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Honestly, yeghor, you are the most frustrating person I've ever had to deal with who I didn't actually hate.
 

yeghor

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And because I've interacted with all of them, and all of their patterns resemble those of these types, not 1s.

So you are saying that their interaction style matches with the enneagram type they self-reported? But does the description of their self-reported enneagram type match the demeanor of the INFJ type as it is described in MBTI or socionics (INFj not the INFp)?
 

Zarathustra

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So you are saying that their interaction style matches with the enneagram type they self-reported? But does the description of their self-reported enneagram type match the demeanor of the INFJ type as it is described in MBTI or socionics (INFj not the INFp)?

It doesn't FUCKING MATTER, YEGHOR!

It CAN.

THAT'S THE POINT.

When MBTI profile-writers were writing the INFJ profile, they weren't taking into account enneagram 4 INFJs, and enneagram 5 INFJs, and enneagram 6 INFJs, and enneagram 2 INFJs, and enneagram 9 INFJs, enneagram 3 INFJs, and enneagram 1 INFJs.

They wrote about an INFJ type that isn't necessarily any one of these, because it didn't make the distinction.

Most MBTI theorists know jack shit about the enneagram, and most enneagram theorists know jack shit about MBTI.

Naranjo's correlations and Riso & Hudson's correlations in their books are AWFUL.

And, if you actually know both systems well, this is CLEAR and OBVIOUS.

What would be much more interesting at this point, frankly, would be for people to START writing INFJ e4, and INFJ e5, and INFJ e6, etc profiles.

Because it's pretty much a moot point, at this point, amongst anyone who actually knows both systems, that they exist.

Trying to correlate one MBTI type to one enneagram type is fucking pointless, inane, and obviously flawed.

They work on completely different levels/aspects of our psychology.
 

Zarathustra

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the INFJ type as it is described in MBTI or socionics (INFj not the INFp)?

Ok.

I just noticed that last part.

I'm done talking with you.

You are so self-obsessed, everything is so self-referential.

"But I'm not this way, so others can't be this way either" I'm over it.

"I'm an INFJ 1 so it's not possible that other INFJs are not e1s".... :dont:

I've been sensing this in you for a while now, and the above is the proof.
 

yeghor

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And why are you so certain they're not?

Because 4 and 5 doesn't have the superego strength that one would expect to find in INFJs... not so sure about 6... but I guess 6's insecurity is more related material domain (Te)...

 
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