[Traditional Enneagram] Enneagram Type and MBTI function correlations...

[Zarathustra]

Because 4 and 5 doesn't have the superego strength that one would expect to find in INFJs...

So because of your bullshit, unfounded tertiary Ti speculation?

Yes, exactly.

That's what I thought.

not so sure about 6...

6 is the most superegoic of all types: 6SS.

but I guess 6's insecurity is more related material domain (Te)...

Wrong.

Once again, complete and utter foundationless tertiary Ti bullshit subjective logic speculation.

You know which TYPE of 6 is more concerned about the material domain? SP 6s.

Not SO's, and not SX's.

THEIR 6 concerns lie more in other domains.

How bout you actually learn the fucking theories before you start just mashing them together without any clue what you're doing?

INFJ strengths

Determined and passionate. INFJ personalities work very hard for causes they believe in. This passion can easily surprise people not used to seeing this side of the INFJ, but it is an inseparable part of their personality.

Altruistic. It is very rare to see an INFJ do something just for their personal benefit. People with this personality type tend to be very warm and altruistic, even though these traits may not be clearly visible. This requires types 1 or 2...




Decisive. This is one of the most important strengths of any INFJ. Their imagination, combined with decisiveness, usually allows INFJs to achieve incredible things. Not only they can come up with interesting and unusual ideas, they also have the willpower and planning skills necessary to implement those ideas.

Creative. INFJs possess a vivid imagination and rarely have any difficulties expressing it in one way or another. Most of their solutions revolve around people or ideals, as opposed to technical strategies. This strength makes INFJ personalities excellent counselors and advisors.

Inspiring and convincing. People with the INFJ personality type have a way with words and are known for their fluid, inspirational writing style. INFJs can also be convincing speakers, especially if they are talking about something they are very proud of or passionate about.

Very insightful. INFJs find it easy to decipher other people’s motives and are rarely affected by manipulation or sales tactics. They tend to know instantly whether someone is being honest. This strength shields their sensitive inner core, protecting the INFJ from disappointment.

INFJ weaknesses

Extremely private. INFJs may appear expressive and passionate, but they are actually very private individuals. People with this personality type often find it quite difficult to trust a new friend or open up, even to people who are closest to them.

Can burn out easily. That strength and passion that INFJ personalities are known for can exhaust them quickly if they are not careful. INFJs also tend to internalize most of their feelings. This trait is not necessarily a weakness, but it deprives them of the “exhaust valve.”

Very sensitive. INFJs are highly vulnerable to criticism and conflict situations and can get hurt very easily. People with this personality type are also likely to react strongly to anything that challenges their inner principles and values.

Perfectionistic. INFJ personalities are inherently idealistic and do their best to achieve their ideals. This is a great trait, but it can quickly become a weakness if the same approach is applied in every area of life. For instance, INFJs may find it difficult to settle down in a romantic relationship, always looking for an ideal partner.


Always need to have a cause. INFJs may find it difficult to focus and force themselves to complete tasks that are not linked to one of their goals, e.g., some routine administrative work that must be carried out. People with this personality type always want to know that they are moving toward a worthy goal and may feel disappointed and restless if this is not the case.

Believe it or not, I'm not gunna waste my time reading all that.

 

[Zarathustra]

Anyway, I am seriously done here, I am not wasting any more time on you.

 

[HongDou]

This is much better than [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION]'s (which is overly simplistic, inflexible, myopic, and doesn't even have one for 2s [which are obviously correlated to FJ {and, after that, F in general (2s are Agreeable, Ts are not [BIG 5])}]).

Yes, 2 is very much an F type on average.

Yours, Chandler (is it ok to use your name? I seriously can't say "Chanaynay" - if not, let me know, and I'll take it out), is totally acceptable and on point, but, if there were any comments I would make they would be:

Chandler works. People can call me whatever they please, within reason haha.

- there are a decent number of IF 5s

Hmm, do you think this could be narrowed down to INFs? There's a surprisingly high number of ISFP 5s on the first chart, but on the second chart both ISFs are in the "very rare" category for both 5s.

Is there a big enough number of them to say they're worth mentioning along IT types though?

- e6 can really be any type, but seems to be more associated with Pi dominance than anything else

Hmm yes, this makes sense to me.

- there are actually a decent amount of EF 8s (not nearly as many as ETs, but enough)

I could see this particularly for EFPs, but sounds incredibly rare for EFJs. Not that it doesn't sound out of the realm of possibility since I know plenty of EFJs that value independence and being in control, sometimes both at the same time depending on the person, so I see how it might manifest. But yeah, ETs generally rule the 8 category.

- e9 is more associated with IFs than ITs, but yes, Xi is appropriate

Yeah, I agree. ITJ 9s seem to be the rarest type of 9s out of the introverts.

 

[yeghor]

Anyway, I am seriously done here, I am not wasting any more time on you.

I feel like the village idiot... Ok thanks anyway...

People, I hope you'll not refrain from making further comments on this... I am also learning in the process so any further comments are welcome...

 

[Zarathustra]

Hmm, do you think this could be narrowed down to INFs? There's a surprisingly high number of ISFP 5s on the first chart, but on the second chart both ISFs are in the "very rare" category for both 5s.

Is there a big enough number of them to say they're worth mentioning along IT types though?

Sorry, yeah, INF is more accurate.

And, yeah, clearly 5 is dominated by ITs.

My comments were kinda just footnotes I would add to what you said.

I could see this particularly for EFPs, but sounds incredibly rare for EFJs. Not that it doesn't sound out of the realm of possibility since I know plenty of EFJs that value independence and being in control, sometimes both at the same time depending on the person, so I see how it might manifest. But yeah, ETs generally rule the 8 category.

Yeah, for sure about the ETs.

EFP is probably > EFJ, but, honestly, I've seen/heard of a good number of EFJ 8s as well.

If you trust the data in the chart I put together enough (frankly, at low levels, like 1-2% or 1-3%, it starts being too close to a reasonable margin of error; but, that being said, I see 3% reporting as a type as more significant than 1% [hell, and even 2%]), then ENFJ 8s are actually just as common as ESFP 8s, and more common than ENFP 8s. I've mostly seen ENFP 8s, with some ENFJ 8s, but ENFPs are far more likely to visit typology forums than the other EFs, so, I would say it's safe to assume that there could be a decent number of ENFJ 8s, and possibly even more than any other EF types. ESFJ 8s I've also heard of, but ESFJs are so uncommon on internet forums, let alone typology forums, that it would be hard to know. I could see why they'd be the least likely of all EFs to be 8s, tho. I mean, there's simply not enough data to know, but something like ENFJ = ESFP > ENFP > ESFJ would not terribly surprise me.

 

[á´…eparted]

I feel like the village idiot... Ok thanks anyway...

People, I hope you'll not refrain from making further comments on this... I am also learning in the process so any further comments are welcome...

You certainly have to have noticed how many people have challenged you on the forums, saying you're ideas are not well founded, or even just flat out wrong. There's a theme, and it seems that you aren't even picking up on that. If you are learning, it's really reeeeeeeeeally slow.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

Loose correlations, for any enneatype can be any Jungian type theoretically.

Type 1 - Te/Fi for 1w9, Je for 1w2
Type 2 - Fe
Type 3 - Fe (for social 3), Sx, Tx
Type 4 - Ni, Fi
Type 5 - Ti, Ni
Type 6 - Si if Prussian, Se if Counterphobic, Ni if Phobic, Tx
Type 7 - Ne, Se, Fx non dominant
Type 8 - Te, Se, Fi non dominant, tert. or inf.
Type 9 - Fi (extraordinarily loose correlation). N/A really.

Enneatype MBTI mascots.

Type 1 - ISTJ
Type 2 - ESFJ
Type 3 - ESTx (I couldn't decide)
Type 4 - ISFP (Fi - Ni mechanism is the reason why it fits)
Type 5 - ISTP (Ti - Ni mechanism)
Type 6 - ISTJ Prussian, ISTP Counterphobic, INTJ Phobic*
Type 7 - ENTP
Type 8 - ENTJ (Shadowed by ESTP)
Type 9 - INFP

I find it interesting how well inferior Se plays into the Phobic 6's character. There is an inferiority complex when it comes to the environment, and thus the environment is mistrusted and constantly scanned for threats. 6 definitely seems to have a rather interesting connection to the Se/Ni axis.

Wait, [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION], did you just associate introverted intuition with Type 1? I have to hear the deduction behind this.

 

[Zarathustra]

Loose correlations, for any enneatype can be any Jungian type theoretically.

Well... there are certain enneatypes that seem likely to almost never happen, and possibly never do happen.

Like... INTJ ISTP 2.

Or ISFJ 8.

Not saying they couldn't, but...

I've never come across a single one.

And there are a good number others like this too.

Type 1 - Te/Fi for 1w9, Je for 1w2
Type 2 - Fe
Type 3 - Fe (for social 3), Sx, Tx
Type 4 - Ni, Fi
Type 5 - Ti, Ni
Type 6 - Si if Prussian, Se if Counterphobic, Ni if Phobic, Tx
Type 7 - Ne, Se, Fx non dominant
Type 8 - Te, Se, Fi non dominant, tert. or inf.
Type 9 - Fi (extraordinarily loose correlation). N/A really.

I think [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]'s is better.

It's cleaner, and hits pretty much all the main points.

Enneatype MBTI mascots.

Type 1 - ISTJ
Type 2 - ESFJ
Type 3 - ESTx (I couldn't decide)
Type 4 - ISFP (Fi - Ni mechanism is the reason why it fits)
Type 5 - ISTP (Ti - Ni mechanism)
Type 6 - ISTJ Prussian, ISTP Counterphobic, INTJ Phobic*
Type 7 - ENTP
Type 8 - ENTJ (Shadowed by ESTP)
Type 9 - INFP

I find it interesting how well inferior Se plays into the Phobic 6's character. There is an inferiority complex when it comes to the environment, and thus the environment is mistrusted and constantly scanned for threats. 6 definitely seems to have a rather interesting connection to the Se/Ni axis.

Umm...

I don't really see the INTJ connection to phobic...

All the ones I've seen are counterphobes or prussians...

Usually the phobics are IFJs...

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

Well... there are certain enneatypes that seem likely to almost never happen, and possibly never do happen.

Like... INTJ ISTP 2.

Or ISFJ 8.

Not saying they couldn't, but...

I've never come across a single one.

And there are a good number others like this too.



I think [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]'s is better.

It's cleaner, and hits pretty much all the main points.



Umm...

I don't really see the INTJ connection to phobic...

Usually the phobics are IFJs...

Valid point. There is an extreme scarcity of IxTx 2s, but it still possible, though not highly probable, that there is an INTJ 2 somewhere.

[MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]'s is a good correlation due to the focus on inclusive types rather than cognitive functions. It's absolutely excellent for discerning which types are associated to each enneatypes, but does not specifically correlate cognitive functions, as was this thread's purpose.

I think that the INTJ represents the Phobic 6 well, especially the 6w5, which is the more often wing subtype accompanied with phobic (and counterphobic). I could see the ISFJ perhaps entertaining the role of the phobic 6, but I have trouble seeing this for the INFJ, as 6 is not only a slightly T-oriented type, but also somewhat deprived of Fe. The INTJ represents the insecurity of the environment through its own inferiority complex around Se, and thus is highly mistrustful of the environment around it. The lead Ni often leads to some paranoia (Ni-Fi mechanism when unchecked by Te-Se mechanism) and doubts, which characterize many Ni leading types (as described by one resource, the Ni types attempt to condense everything down to one possibility and even then doubt that possibility to death). Which specific representative would you choose for the sp 6?

 

[Zarathustra]

Valid point. There is an extreme scarcity of IxTx 2s, but it still possible, though not highly probable, that there is an INTJ 2 somewhere.

This is true.

I have wondered what the hell that would look like.

It would be really fucking odd.

And goddamn would they be good at it.

(haha... if we could only be made to give a damn...)

[MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]'s is a good correlation due to the focus on inclusive types rather than cognitive functions. It's absolutely excellent for discerning which types are associated to each enneatypes, but does not specifically correlate cognitive functions, as was this thread's purpose.

Ok, got it.

Fair enough.

I think the other method is more useful, though.

I think that the INTJ represents the Phobic 6 well, especially the 6w5, which is the more often wing subtype accompanied with phobic (and counterphobic). I could see the ISFJ perhaps entertaining the role of the phobic 6, but I have trouble seeing this for the INFJ, as 6 is not only a slightly T-oriented type, but also somewhat deprived of Fe. The INTJ represents the insecurity of the environment through its own inferiority complex around Se, and thus is highly mistrustful of the environment around it. The lead Ni often leads to some paranoia (Ni-Fi mechanism when unchecked by Te-Se mechanism) and doubts, which characterize many Ni leading types (as described by one resource, the Ni types attempt to condense everything down to one possibility and even then doubt that possibility to death). Which specific representative would you choose for the sp 6?

ISTJ, ISFJ, INFJ

I've seen a bunch of ISFJ and INFJ phobic 6s here... and at least one ISTJ...

I've seen zero phobic INTJ 6s here...

I don't see where you get that 6 is deprived of Fe...

They really don't post here much anymore, but there used to be a cackle of IFJ phobic 6s here...

I don't know if you could really draw an 6 subtype correlations to MBTI...

Other than maybe ISTP counterphobics, and IFJ (and maybe ISJ as well) phobics.

Consider how inferior Ne could cripple someone with paranoia just as bad, if not worse, than Ni dominance and Se inferior...

Inferior Se might actually tend to lead the person to lash out more in a counterphobic sense, and perhaps actually be proactive...

Whereas inferior Ne will be more just frantic mental scenario-making, and less tendency to actually get physically proactive.

Remember, INTJs are overrepresented among those who use "Working Out/Exercising" as a Leisure Activity.

(And also are among the top three types to be over-represented amongst substance abusers...)

So, just because their Se is inferior, doesn't mean they don't use it!

http://www.discoveryourpersonality.com/intj.html

 

[á´…eparted]

Wait, yeghor, did you just associate introverted intuition with Type 1? I have to hear the deduction behind this.

I wouldn't say it is. Ni can link with E1 (I've met several over the years), but it's not the stereotype of it, and I'd hesitate to call it the most common. I'd say the most "classic" for E1 is SJ types. Reason being, is E1 often has a huge drive for traceable certainty (as it's innate with perfectionism and correctness), which is a strong marker of Si in the dominant or secondary position.

When E1 is linked with Ni-doms, it usually shows as a desire and push for "grand designs" to be perfect in a way. It's a lot of refining "how things should ideally be", and they want everything to fit within their models. It doesn't have that classic obessiveness that can show in perfectionism that is often seen in E1 types.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

This is true.

I have wondered what the hell that would look like.

It would be really fucking odd.

And goddamn would they be good at it.

(haha... if we could only be made to give a damn...)



Ok, got it.

Fair enough.

I think the other method is more useful, though.



ISTJ, ISFJ, INFJ

I've seen a bunch of ISFJ and INFJ phobic 6s here... and at least one ISTJ...

I've seen zero phobic INTJ 6s here...

I don't see where you get that 6 is deprived of Fe...

They really don't post here much anymore, but there used to be a cackle of IFJ phobic 6s here...

I don't know if you could really draw an 6 subtype correlations to MBTI...

Other than maybe ISTP counterphobics, and IFJ (and maybe ISJ as well) phobics.

Consider how inferior Ne could cripple someone with paranoia just as bad, if not worse, than Ni dominance and Se inferior...

Inferior Se might actually tend to lead the person to lash out more in a counterphobic sense, and perhaps actually be proactive...

Whereas inferior Ne will be more just frantic mental scenario-making, and less tendency to actually get physically proactive.

Remember, INTJs are overrepresented among those who use "Working Out/Exercising" as a Leisure Activity.

(And also are among the top three types to be over-represented amongst substance abusers...)

So, just because their Se is inferior, doesn't mean they don't use it!

http://www.discoveryourpersonality.com/intj.html

That's an interesting assessment. Come to think of it, inferior Ne would probably represent the inferiority complex surrounding the environment more than inferior Se. Inferior Ne would manifest itself negatively through the assessment of all kinds of negative possibilities in the environment, whereas inferior Se would manifest itself negatively through the inferiority complex surrounding the immediate environment. Not what could happen, as the type 6 is afraid of, but what already it. Therefore, the ISxJ would be a prime candidate to represent the phobic 6.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

When E1 is linked with Ni-doms, it usually shows as a desire and push for "grand designs" to be perfect in a way. It's a lot of refining "how things should ideally be", and they want everything to fit within their models. It doesn't have that classic obessiveness that can show in perfectionism that is often seen in E1 types.

And that, in itself, is representative of the 1s drive for perfection through its most correlative function, Te. Meaning that most 1s are perfectionists of action (Je), rather than thought or analysis (Ni/Ti).

 

[á´…eparted]

And that, in itself, is representative of the 1s drive for perfection through its most correlative function, Te. Meaning that most 1s are perfectionists of action (Je), rather than thought or analysis (Ni/Ti).

Yeah I would agree with that. However, Fe can be and is action oriented, just in a different manner. Ultimately E1 types are external. A parallel would be E5's which can coincidentially become internal perfectionists. Not their main drive, it just sort of comes with the teritory at times.

 

[yeghor]

...Wait, [MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION], did you just associate introverted intuition with Type 1? I have to hear the deduction behind this.

Type One:
Basic Fear: Of being corrupt/evil, defective
Basic Desire: To be good, to have integrity, to be balanced

We have named personality type One The Reformer because Ones have a “sense of mission” that leads them to want to improve the world in various ways, using whatever degree of influence they have. They strive to overcome adversity—particularly moral adversity—so that the human spirit can shine through and make a difference. They strive after “higher values,” even at the cost of great personal sacrifice.

This orientation makes it difficult for them to trust their inner guidance—indeed, to trust life—so Ones come to rely heavily on their superego, a learned voice from their childhood, to guide them toward “the greater good” which they so passionately seek. When Ones have gotten completely entranced in their personality, there is little distinction between them and this severe, unforgiving voice. Separating from it and seeing its genuine strengths and limitations is what growth for Ones is about.

The learned voice from childhood, i.e. superego, is coming from an "introverted perception" function, which continuously gazes internally upon the self, criticizes and instructs the self... it's a self-defense mechanism aimed to minimize the risks and threats to the self (mentally and physically)... However, it also torments and berates the self for mistakes (hence the perfectionism in 1s), and causes anxiety for the self, which also causes the self to be fearful, stressed as well as conflict and risk avoidant...

Edit:

Type One Key Motivations: Want to be right, to strive higher and improve everything, to be consistent with their ideals, to justify themselves, to be beyond criticism so as not to be condemned by anyone.

Introverted perception functions are Si and Ni... Enneagram 9 descriptions mention something about 9 being the most grounded one in his body so I assumed Si is more related to 9 so that leaves Ni for enneagram 1...

 

[yeghor]

You certainly have to have noticed how many people have challenged you on the forums, saying you're ideas are not well founded, or even just flat out wrong. There's a theme, and it seems that you aren't even picking up on that. If you are learning, it's really reeeeeeeeeally slow.

Yeah I am not giving up am I...?

 

[Zarathustra]

That's an interesting assessment. Come to think of it, inferior Ne would probably represent the inferiority complex surrounding the environment more than inferior Se. Inferior Ne would manifest itself negatively through the assessment of all kinds of negative possibilities in the environment, whereas inferior Se would manifest itself negatively through the inferiority complex surrounding the immediate environment. Not what could happen, as the type 6 is afraid of, but what already it. Therefore, the ISxJ would be a prime candidate to represent the phobic 6.

The other thing to keep in mind is the Fe will lead to more of a phobic response than Te, as Fe will choose to submit or defer more often than Te, which will try to dominate, take charge, and impose both/either tertiary Fi's mandate, or what it considers to be objective Te truth. The 6SSs, the most superegoic and purely Systemic/mental of all (sub)types (of which I am one), is the counterphobic subtype, and would correlate to Te (and Ni, and probably Ti [and perhaps Ne as well]) thinking more than any of the other functions.

When I think of a phobic 6, my first thought is a deferring ISFJ (and, secondarily, INFJ and ISTJ).
When I think of the Prussian 6, I first think of STJs (and then all the other IJs).
When I think of counterphobic 6s, I think of NTJS and STPs (and NTPs and SFPs).

 

[á´…eparted]

Yeah I am not giving up am I...?

That's not necessarily a good thing. It's one thing to try, it's another to keep redoing the same thing with at best a veneer change.

 

[yeghor]

This might be helpful

In this graph, as you see only about 10% of INFJs are of enneagram types 1 and 2... If what I say holds water, this means that only 1 in 10 INFJs online is an actual INFJ...

And half of those who type themselves as INFJs are of the enneagram type 4, which I associate with IxFPs... So it appears [MENTION=10984]Azure Flame[/MENTION] was not that off the mark when he was "ranting" about INFPs mistyped as INFJs...

That means at any given time, half the INFJs you converse with will actually be IxFPs...

Check these people that identify themselves as INFJs for instance, mind that these guys and gals all have good self-confidence and image, do you see any signs of "superego" at play in these videos? Especially at earlier ages, INFJs would look and dress very much like ISFJs do... only later in my 30s have I started to assert my own looks...:

Disclaimer: This is not about elitism or uniqueness or stuff...

ISFP - Pin-up girl

IxFP - Fi eyes

ISFP - Chill guy

Don't know - but she has too much make-up on...

 

[yeghor]

Continued

xxFP

xxFP - Fi eyes

xNFP - Too much accessorizing...

xNFP - Goth style?