User Tag List

First 3456 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 55

  1. #41
    Somber and irritated cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,528

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    In the event that you're a 1 - you identify pretty strongly with sp/so, right? If so, your focus would be on improving yourself and your environment, much more so than the people or systems around you. As a sp/so 1, I would probably identify more with "unstoppable compulsion to improve", than I would identify with the bolded - and I think the 1w9s I know irl would feel the same. They (sp/so 1s and 1w9 folks) can look like 5s, but it's not about learning for the sake of knowing, it's about learning for the sake of making yourself better.
    Ah, instincts is a bigger can of worms for me. Were I a 9, sp/sx would probably be an easy call. As a 1? Eh, I don't know. I can just definitively say that I have never been the community organization / charity / network building sort.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    Likes EJCC liked this post

  2. #42
    Senior Member misfortuneteller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sp/sx
    Posts
    585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Deadpan View Post
    EJCC was correct in her statement.

    9s are externally focused and averse to introspection and do indeed base their identity on their relationships with others. They feel that others were born with something that they were not, but unlike 4s, they don't have an acute idea of what it could be. Similar to 5s, they have a sense of emptiness inside, and they avoid feeling that by merging with whatever their instinctual energy inclines them to merge with. Also like 5s, they prefer to stay in the background, but not to maintain distance like a 5, rather they just don't want to bring attention to themselves for fear of inviting criticism or judgement. Harmony is important to them because it reassures their fears that they aren't worthy of love, while negative attention can be quite uncomfortable and cause their avoided feelings to bubble up.

    Even on this forum in the blog section, you'll rarely find a true 9 introspecting, and instead their focus will maintain fixation on those around them in their lives.

    This wasn't the most fine-tuned description because I'm on lunch, but it's good enough.
    Nope. This type of garbage is why INFP 9s keep mistyping as 4s.

  3. #43
    Senior Member misfortuneteller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w8 sp/sx
    Posts
    585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    To quote Enneagram Institute: “...However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity. Ironically, therefore, the only type the Nine is not like is the Nine itself. Being a separate self, an individual who must assert herself against others, is terrifying to Nines. They would rather melt into someone else or quietly follow their idyllic daydreams.”

    ^ the source for my earlier post. And fwiw being out of touch with your own personality isn’t quite the same as not understanding it. You might get it and choose to disregard it.
    Enneagram Institute is mostly nonsense as much i'd hate to say since I use to look up to Riso and Hudson. The enneagram is only about motives, integration and disintegration.

  4. #44
    Saprophytic Aphrodite Peter Deadpan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    6,998

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by misfortuneteller View Post
    Nope. This type of garbage is why INFP 9s keep mistyping as 4s.
    You're incorrect, and I think you're incorrectly typed, and I don't care to discuss with you further.
    Perpetual mood


    "It is not the personality's task to tell the truth,
    but to seem to, try to, or try to seem to."


    Philip Trussell


  5. #45
    Senior Member Venus Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sx/so
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    342

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    @cascadeco and @Stell

    Trying to understand the terminology you're using, I referred to this article: Egosyntonic and egodystonic - Wikipedia

    and based on this, to my understanding of the enneagram, 4, 1, and 9 are ALL ego-dystonic. 4 has a very specific ideal self-image that they try to force themselves into because their "real" self is terrible garbage in their view.
    not commenting on any arguments on this thread, but I guess I just wanted to say something on this...

    I guess I don't see 4s inherently as "trying to force themselves into an idealized image," sounds a little unnatural to me, plus image types identify with their image, and as such "forcing an image" in that context seems kind of weird
    then there's also this: 4 Wings — Enneagrammer

    I don't agree with everything they say, but I think this is an ok snapshot view of the 4 wings
    As a 4w5 at least, I identify with the "ugly" self image, and though an "ideal" does exist (how could it not) in my case even the ideal is affected by my fixation on ugliness/authenticity, as in, forcing myself to be an idealized version would feel inauthentic to me. In general though, I don't seem to "care much" for the idealized version due to over-identifying with my shadow side, or my "ugliness" (in quotes bc I don't necessarily think it's ugly per se but to illustrate the point that 4s are fixated on the less glittery, glamorous, and pretty aspects of themselves, others, and society in general)

    that being said being that 4 is still an image type they might project this image in a way that draws people in (an image type, after all, wants to be loved).

    hope that makes sense...
    EII | INFP
    4w5-9w1-6w5 sx/so

  6. #46
    Member Indigo Rodent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Socionics
    ENFp None
    Posts
    75

    Default

    I think it's thread of suffering and alienation. For 1 disintegrating to 4 it will be due to failure of the environment to meet the standards of 1, especially if these standards are reasonable. Being different, not fitting in because of the corruption of the environment, suffering because of constant contact with evil and being deprived of collective pride and sense of belonging.

    Another thing is depression being secondary to rage. As in anger -> burnout -> depression. I think 1 may seek out 4-style masochism when rage gets out of control, when it becomes exhausting.
    DESPAIR

  7. #47
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,139

    Default

    I just remember some guy who was supposed to be an expert talking about E4s and all I could think was that he was describing E1. The kinds of examples he gave that made think that included:

    "E4s have to arrange the furniture exactly to their specifications, place it exactly where they feel it needs to go etc."
    No, I would say that E4s will find some completely new way of relating to furniture that you haven't thought of yet. They might even keep moving it, or use a piano for a closet and a canoe for a dresser.

    "E4s have to always have a touch of uniqueness. I remember this one E4 lady that would come to my lectures wearing all black, but with a colorful accent scarf because she needed to stand out and be unique". That sounds pretty standard to me like business sheik. It sounds like a tendency towards perfectionism and understatement.
    Once again, I think 4s find unusual style that is at the edge of what is socially acceptable. Although I manage it in a more quiet kind of way, but I can't stand to copy what other people are wearing or obey fashion rules. I buy really interesting clothes at thrift stores from all time periods and I dress in a quietly unique way. Some more outgoing E4s will be more aggressive in their style, but it isn't one little dainty detail to stand out a little. It is the fundamental approach covering the whole of their relationship to clothing that is unique.

    In summary, E4s do not have a touch of uniqueness and focus on making it perfect. Their underlying, fundamental approach is off-kilter from the norm.
    bunny omi

    Likes The Cat liked this post

  8. #48
    Saprophytic Aphrodite Peter Deadpan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    6,998

    Default

    1s will suffer when things aren't "right", 4s have an attachment to suffering as a standard and have to learn to be more principled in their approach to life/being.
    Perpetual mood


    "It is not the personality's task to tell the truth,
    but to seem to, try to, or try to seem to."


    Philip Trussell

    Likes Ravenetta liked this post

  9. #49
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Deadpan View Post
    1s will suffer when things aren't "right", 4s have an attachment to suffering as a standard and have to learn to be more principled in their approach to life/being.
    Two very different ways of relating to perfectionism. I think you said it well and it sounds to me like E1s need perfection to be attainable and E4s need it to be unattainable.

    I will say that some of the talk about E4 and suffering I find dismissive. This is because life is suffering for most living beings. To have comfort is the anomaly, and so I see suffering as truth. I see society as sugar coating everything because it's easier than having the courage to take on exactly how painful reality actually is. Denial smile and shoot or the stars. Suffering isn't a game to me, but looking it square in the eye without blinking is another sort of unattainable goal I am driven towards. I find some descriptions read like the person who wrote them has grown up in a safe, comfortable life, with some challenges, but nothing that required reconstructing a sense of reality. When they describe E4s as melodramatic, dressing up in pain, treating suffering like a decoration, I want to stand on a mountaintop and scream until their brain unhinges and they break out of their safe little delusional world that the only true suffering that is embraced is that which is make believe or safely exaggerated. My sense of pain is not fake, their sense of comfort and security - that's what's fake.
    bunny omi


  10. #50
    Member Indigo Rodent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Socionics
    ENFp None
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenetta;3185936I will say that some of the talk about E4 and suffering I find dismissive. This is because life [B
    is[/B] suffering for most living beings. To have comfort is the anomaly, and so I see suffering as truth. I see society as sugar coating everything because it's easier than having the courage to take on exactly how painful reality actually is. Denial smile and shoot or the stars. Suffering isn't a game to me, but looking it square in the eye without blinking is another sort of unattainable goal I am driven towards. I find some descriptions read like the person who wrote them has grown up in a safe, comfortable life, with some challenges, but nothing that required reconstructing a sense of reality. When they describe E4s as melodramatic, dressing up in pain, treating suffering like a decoration, I want to stand on a mountaintop and scream until their brain unhinges and they break out of their safe little delusional world that the only true suffering that is embraced is that which is make believe or safely exaggerated. My sense of pain is not fake, their sense of comfort and security - that's what's fake.
    I would rather say it's more of a sign of you not being a 4. Probably a generic effect of having Fi while living in this putrid world thing rather than anything Enneagram. The problem with Enneagram is that tests keep mistyping people basing on their MBTI types.
    It sounds to me much more like core traits of 5 - knowledge and not wanting to be delusional (core fear: incompetence) with a strong Fi flavouring. It seems to me that you're treating pain as a form of knowledge of reality and want to avoid loss or distortion of that knowledge.
    DESPAIR

Similar Threads

  1. Fi vs. Ti (thanks to Virginia Woolf)
    By MacGuffin in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 114
    Last Post: 03-10-2011, 11:48 PM
  2. Ultimate F vs T decision... To stay with friends or not?
    By Snow Turtle in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-19-2009, 07:47 PM
  3. advice on MBTI vs social reaction to changes (ex: environmental changes)
    By Louis-Philippe in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-04-2008, 06:22 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO