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Actual 4 vs. 1 disintegrating to 4

cascadeco

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1000% untrue. This is literally what disintegrating to 4 is like for 1s - feeling like whatever’s gone wrong is their fault, because it’s ALWAYS their fault, and they fail at achieving their ideals ALL THE TIME.

I agree with earlier posts in this thread, that the core differences have to do with baseline level of perfection and judgment. Even at my most disintegrated to 4, I look very collected on the outside, and the only outside evidence that something is wrong is all the little details that have fallen apart, that I would usually care deeply about maintaining. Different for everyone, but for me, things become untidy, I become habitually late for things, and I stop replying to people’s texts - or take forever to. I don’t think 4s usually put so much stake in those details for their own sake. They’d care about them for their significance, more personally and more broadly, and unrelated to the basic 1 philosophy of “perfection at all costs”. Because frankly, “perfection at all costs” is not interesting*.


*This is my 4 trifix talking, lol.

How do you feel perfection manifests in you? I am guessing mbti will also play significantly into any personal definition of 'perfection', but I know that I haven't ever viewed myself as 'perfectionistic' (like, a super tangible example, I wasn't one to agonize for hours or days on end re the 'perfect' paper or cleaning method or whatnot; I'm not 'perfectionistic' in a detail-y way). But, I am also wondering if my idea of being 'balanced' and wanting to ..kind of not have any personality 'gaps' might be my own version of it; I've just never viewed it as perfectionism.
 

EJCC

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Do you find that your mood is significantly affected when you are disintegrating to 4? Do you take on the whole in love with your sadness sort of feeling?
If I’m stuck in there long enough, then it feels comfortably familiar. So... kind of? Usually the 1 disintegrating to 4 process is too disorienting to feel lovely. Gnarled tangles of feelings that only exist to ruin your mood and be otherwise inscrutable and inarticulable.

How do you feel perfection manifests in you? I am guessing mbti will also play significantly into any personal definition of 'perfection', but I know that I haven't ever viewed myself as 'perfectionistic' (like, a super tangible example, I wasn't one to agonize for hours or days on end re the 'perfect' paper or cleaning method or whatnot; I'm not 'perfectionistic' in a detail-y way). But, I am also wondering if my idea of being 'balanced' and wanting to ..kind of not have any personality 'gaps' might be my own version of it; I've just never viewed it as perfectionism.
Feels like being constantly aware of the Platonic “form” of absolutely everything in my vicinity and in my life. That is, the ideal of everything - the perfect chair, relative to the chair I’m looking at.

I remember the section of my philosophy class about Plato’s “Republic” was pretty intuitive to me for this reason. I already approached the world that way. (I’ll bet Plato was a 1.)
 

cascadeco

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If I’m stuck in there long enough, then it feels comfortably familiar. So... kind of? Usually the 1 disintegrating to 4 process is too disorienting to feel lovely. Gnarled tangles of feelings that only exist to ruin your mood and be otherwise inscrutable and inarticulable.


Feels like being constantly aware of the Platonic “form” of absolutely everything in my vicinity and in my life. That is, the ideal of everything - the perfect chair, relative to the chair I’m looking at.

I remember the section of my philosophy class about Plato’s “Republic” was pretty intuitive to me for this reason. I already approached the world that way. (I’ll bet Plato was a 1.)

Well, he was listed as a 1 on one of the sites I was looking at yesterday. :)
 

Earl Grey

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Not 1 core, fixed, or winged, but I have an INTJ friend who is 1 core and fit E1 very well. As @EJCC put up there,

Feels like being constantly aware of the Platonic "form" of absolutely everything in my vicinity and in my life. That is, the ideal of everything - the perfect chair, relative to the chair I'm looking at.

She is very similar. Her friends & I joke that she somehow can criticize just about anything (not in the shallow tattle-talky way, but in a very discerning, legitimate way). It's as if she's an auto-improvement machine, put her anywhere and she'll start mechanizing everything to be the best it can be- and in a very typical Te-like efficiency- when younger she couldn't understand why others couldn't bear or do it. She had a vision for seemingly everything and they had to align, reality has to align with that vision.

She is likely tritype 164, and there may be overlap with the 4 fix, but as she goes down the health levels her neuroticism as a 1 becomes more and more apparent (albeit only to her closest friends, in retrospect she might have been disintegrating but I didn't know enneagram that well back then), and when she begins to become 'too stressed to think properly' as she puts it, she ends up taking her failures as a reflection of herself, negativistic thinking, measuring herself up against her 1 ideals and seeing herself failing, falling short. How the world is so wrong, how everything is so wrong. In her own words, "I am imperfect! Everything is so imperfect! This is all a failure!"

If she falls into it (Ni-Fi looping, Se-grip?) she can begin to be unable to Te as properly, and become pessimistic, not as effective, over-focus on negatives, 'darker sides of life', failure, etc, it's almost like I'm looking at a well-oiled machine suddenly losing a gear and getting jammed. In that state she (though she never admits it) needs extra acknowledgement from people closest to her (we can say this because when we're with her she seems to feel better- might be the 6 (attachment fix) coming into play).

Now that I rethink things and look back I can see and understand how and why 1s disintegrate to 4.
Also, a user mentioned several posts back (2013- so I won't quote it) something I agree with- to herself, things were just never perfect enough. We all could see she was a rigid, idealistic, visionary perfectionist, but to herself it wasn't enough- and so she did not assess herself that way till older.
 

PumpkinMayCare

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Do you find that your mood is significantly affected when you are disintegrating to 4? Do you take on the whole in love with your sadness sort of feeling?

I know that wasn't related to me, sorry for jumping in. I don't know if you mean this, but I think what I describe here is what people mean when they say fours are in love with their sadness sometimes?

Sometimes when I seemingly disintegrate to four, I become less perfectionistic but I also become more attentive to my feelings. During these phases, I do like to just brood over things. It's like I just let things be the way they are, including my emotions. So when I happen to feel shitty, I just let myself feel shitty and noone and nothing can stop me, until I feel like I "sat" with this feeling for long enough or it just ran itself out.
The letting myself brood-thing may be something that people would call being in love with sadness, I guess. And I can see why. It can border on that. I've always felt more like what I'm doing there is taking my time digesting an emotion properly. And that feels nice. I mean, it makes me personally feel good, being so in tune with your emotions and your inner states and workings and etc.

Back when I was younger that happened way more often and also was way more intense. It's been brought to my attention that from the outside it seems senseless to do something like that. But I personally have experienced even really long phases of just letting myself feel sad as very insightful.
 

cascadeco

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One thing I get from his material is that types on the lower half of the enneagram are more ego-dystonic (painfully over-aware of their pattern), while he describes 1 as ego-syntonic. I wonder if that could make it difficult, like it was for your friend, for some 1's to hit on their true type.

I'm imagining someone reading about the moral discipline of the 1 in books and thinking they must be anything but that type because due to their extreme standards for themselves that they can only fall far short of, they feel inside like they are just barely in control. Maybe they'd choose themselves a type known for being more impulsive or more emotionally driven, unaware that their definition of "impulsive" differs wildly in scope from what the authors and healthy people in general tend to mean by that. Meanwhile everyone else around them does see a disciplined and a very self-constrained person. That person just can't see it in themselves. "I'm not critical...if anything, I'm too easy!"

THIS is probably the most interesting comment I have found here and the thing that might be the most applicable to me. That is, IF I am actually a 1w9.

Gonna be totally honest here, I don't relate at all to some of the previous posts re how being 'perfectionistic' plays out. I haven't ever been told as a child or even into my 20 years or so of adulthood that I'm demanding, that I'm rigid or being critical of every little thing, that I'm whipping everything I see into shape that doesn't meet my 'ideal' or am inclined to do so... in fact I don't even know at this point that I even consciously allow more than a second or so at most for some judgment of mine to pass through my mind before I 'forget' about it and then am not even aware I had the judgment.

iow -- it IS possible that long ago I stopped even giving much weight to 'perfection' because it's ridiculous to do so and nothing will ever meet it; nor will my definition ever mirror someone else's. So why in my job for example would I impose my own inclinations onto everyone else? In some cases I might suggest a better way of doing something, if the person is doing something blatantly wrong, but there are so many grey areas that I just have to let most things slide. And, I don't in turn then fixate over these things for very long, if at all.

The only area I am more consciously aware of myself being 'perfectionistic' -- though I hesitate to even call it that -- to me, I would view it more as 'wouldn't-it-be-nice-if-the-world-and-people-were-actually-this-way-but-I-know-that's-an-illusion/will-never-happen' --- is in more global things/concepts, like relationships, society, how and why and what people do with their lives and why they behave a certain why and not another way, why the world sucks in all of these various ways and what the 'ideal' would be, and so on. I can relate to 'perfectionism' if it's along the lines of C.S. Lewis or the guy in the 50's (or whatever) who wrote 'The Road Less Traveled' (don't even know if he was a 1, but that's more what I relate to): That being, integrity in self and wanting myself and others to not stagnate and to be their optimized selves (this is obviously an ideal and I often don't meet it, nor do most people).

That global topic, as well as my own character (again- this has nothing much to do with 'things' and being nitpicky and perfectionistic about the details in my environment, because I don't have time or energy for that / it's a pointless endeavor in many cases) -- what I referenced in my last post on here re viewing 'perfectionism' in myself as tied to balance, or any lackings. That said, this nicely brings me full circle to what I initially wanted to comment on re [MENTION=17945]Stell[/MENTION] 's post above: I think what you write might apply to me, because I very very likely have a very poor gauge on where any of my traits fall on the scale when compared to anyone else, and I likely under-estimate anything because I would hate to overestimate and be 'inaccurate'. But ofc underestimating is also inaccurate; however like I said, I don't really know how to assess this and I have said this before, and it is why I think I DO seek external assessments of these various things.

Summary: I can relate to the notion of 'perfectionism' as applied to my own self/character/growth, as well as it when applied to the world/people idealistically/wishfully, but I can't relate to it in the sense of imposing or expecting details or the environment to meet my expectations and if they don't, to impose my will.

Loong post, sorry. Whether it's relevant or not, I guess the definitive 1's can decide. :laugh: And if this is too off-topic, it's totally cool with me if it is broken into its own thread.
 

Galena

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Edit: andddd I copied the post back, because though it does become a blog and also is in my blog, it may still assist other 4s and concerns this thread.

One thing I get from his material is that types on the lower half of the enneagram are more ego-dystonic (painfully over-aware of their pattern), while he describes 1 as ego-syntonic. I wonder if that could make it difficult, like it was for your friend, for some 1's to hit on their true type.

I'm imagining someone reading about the moral discipline of the 1 in books and thinking they must be anything but that type because due to their extreme standards for themselves that they can only fall far short of, they feel inside like they are just barely in control. Maybe they'd choose themselves a type known for being more impulsive or more emotionally driven, unaware that their definition of "impulsive" differs wildly in scope from what the authors and healthy people in general tend to mean by that. Meanwhile everyone else around them does see a disciplined and a very self-constrained person. That person just can't see it in themselves. "I'm not critical...if anything, I'm too easy!"
[MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION]

It’s interesting that you quote this post. If it rings true for the types in general, and other members of the types, that’s great. It is the one old post of mine in the thread that bothered me the most personally, and I now think it was wrong about my own case.

When I wrote it, I was very transparently hoping to have been a 1 all along. This notion died quickly and rightly. While the second paragraph above may ring sincerely for real 1s, I was investigating the concept as an escape hatch from responsibility. There is some innocence in it, though, of being based on two actual pieces of feedback I’ve received a lot in my time from other people - first, that my standards are extreme, and second, that I am disciplined and self-contained.

As for disciplined, yes, I am about quite a few things. Those tend to be the most visible things, the things most likely to be noticed and inspire feedback. And more importantly, when it comes to less disciplined areas, the more sincerely important to me something is, the more inconsistent my relationship is with it. This plays out almost exclusively in private, and so it is startling and very upsetting for me to have executive errors or inattentiveness pointed out, because that is an exposure of what is a very intimate problem for me and a blow to a well-maintained image of the opposite that I deep down know isn’t the full story. To get that story more gently, ask me not how I’m doing at my work, but at my dreams and my relationships.

As for extreme standards, that may well have been true when I wrote this post. The possibilities I’m juggling at this point either are that I have changed my standards, or that they weren’t ever that huge in the first place and “you have extreme standards” is just a standard thing that gets said to people who are bothered by regret. I’ve been rethinking and questioning it. At present, however old the standards are that I’m applying today, I look at the things I regret and honestly don’t see how doing differently would have been such an extreme move. In a lot of cases, the “different” thing to do was a thing that many regular people do and have done, things like just expressing appreciation to a family member, controlling my temper, or speaking up for a friend. You know, not letting emotion get the better of me when I really knew better and really did care. At this point, where I’m at with my definition of a good person, who I want to be, and how I want to treat others, “extreme standards” is not a useful phrase anymore and stoppers loving if painful emotions that I would do good to feel at full strength again.
 
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EJCC

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[MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17945]Stell[/MENTION]

Trying to understand the terminology you're using, I referred to this article: Egosyntonic and egodystonic - Wikipedia

and based on this, to my understanding of the enneagram, 4, 1, and 9 are ALL ego-dystonic. 4 has a very specific ideal self-image that they try to force themselves into because their "real" self is terrible garbage in their view. 1 denies the needs of the body and the soul and calls them "irrelevant" relative to their mission in life. And 9 is so used to blending with the needs of the room that they become utterly out of touch with their own personality - the idea that they are, in fact, a person who can impact other people and the world around them.

This, cascadeco, per your own description, is why I still think you're a 9 - because you can't be a 1 without a certain amount of hubris with regard to your own ability to improve things, in whichever sphere of influence you're most dedicated to. You have to believe that your purpose on this earth is to make things closer to perfect, somehow. I hesitate to speak in such black and white terms about a type, but I struggle to conceptualize a 1 who is not like this.
 

cascadeco

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[MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17945]Stell[/MENTION]

Trying to understand the terminology you're using, I referred to this article: Egosyntonic and egodystonic - Wikipedia

and based on this, to my understanding of the enneagram, 4, 1, and 9 are ALL ego-dystonic. 4 has a very specific ideal self-image that they try to force themselves into because their "real" self is terrible garbage in their view. 1 denies the needs of the body and the soul and calls them "irrelevant" relative to their mission in life. And 9 is so used to blending with the needs of the room that they become utterly out of touch with their own personality - the idea that they are, in fact, a person who can impact other people and the world around them.

This, cascadeco, per your own description, is why I still think you're a 9 - because you can't be a 1 without a certain amount of hubris with regard to your own ability to improve things, in whichever sphere of influence you're most dedicated to. You have to believe that your purpose on this earth is to make things closer to perfect, somehow. I hesitate to speak in such black and white terms about a type, but I struggle to conceptualize a 1 who is not like this.

:) It's cool, I'm wanting to learn about all of it more myself.

Edit: All I can do is state to the best of my ability my own self/perspective and then see where it lands me.
 

Galena

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[MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17945]Stell[/MENTION]

Trying to understand the terminology you're using, I referred to this article: Egosyntonic and egodystonic - Wikipedia

and based on this, to my understanding of the enneagram, 4, 1, and 9 are ALL ego-dystonic. 4 has a very specific ideal self-image that they try to force themselves into because their "real" self is terrible garbage in their view. 1 denies the needs of the body and the soul and calls them "irrelevant" relative to their mission in life. And 9 is so used to blending with the needs of the room that they become utterly out of touch with their own personality - the idea that they are, in fact, a person who can impact other people and the world around them.

This, cascadeco, per your own description, is why I still think you're a 9 - because you can't be a 1 without a certain amount of hubris with regard to your own ability to improve things, in whichever sphere of influence you're most dedicated to. You have to believe that your purpose on this earth is to make things closer to perfect, somehow. I hesitate to speak in such black and white terms about a type, but I struggle to conceptualize a 1 who is not like this.
I see what you mean here. This is a really really old thread of mine, so a lot of my early posts aren’t very representative of what I’ve learned, especially through getting to know actual people of these types better. Take them only for whatever truth is actually still left in them.
 

misfortuneteller

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[MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17945]Stell[/MENTION]

9 is so used to blending with the needs of the room that they become utterly out of touch with their own personality
- the idea that they are, in fact, a person who can impact other people and the world around them.
.

I don't understand why non-9s keep painting us as people that don't understand ourselves. Most 9s don't agree with the bolded.
 

misfortuneteller

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:) It's cool, I'm wanting to learn about all of it more myself.

Edit: All I can do is state to the best of my ability my own self/perspective and then see where it lands me.

I wouldn't take his/her word for your typing. I'm the expert in enneagram and all of the 1 stuff is heavily based on the 1w2 which is a double super ego type. I'm sure he'll/she'll disagree since they love being right. :dry:

1w9, The Peaceful Reformer.
This is more of the enlightened 1 that can lead an eccentric life especially if they are an Ni dom. They aren't nearly as uptight as 1w2s or even 2w1s because both of them are double super ego types. The 1w9 just seeks to be righteous+tranquil and many people wouldn't even consider them to be angry at all. They have a much easier time integrating and disintegrating since they have an element of withdrawal from obligation due to the 9 wing.
 

cascadeco

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I wouldn't take his/her word for your typing. I'm the expert in enneagram and all of the 1 stuff is heavily based on the 1w2 which is a double super ego type. I'm sure he'll/she'll disagree since they love being right. :dry:

1w9, The Peaceful Reformer.
This is more of the enlightened 1 that can lead an eccentric life especially if they are an Ni dom. They aren't nearly as uptight as 1w2s or even 2w1s because both of them are double super ego types. The 1w9 just seeks to be righteous+tranquil and many people wouldn't even consider them to be angry at all. They have a much easier time integrating and disintegrating since they have an element of withdrawal from obligation due to the 9 wing.

Well, to be fair, I'm sure if nothing I said re how I DO relate to perfectionism and what I don't relate to is relatable to many or any other 1's, then I can see where there would be confusion or even the question as to whether it was possible to be a 1 when one lacks that 'mission'/need/drive to impact the environment. Even I wonder that. DOES it make sense to be a 1 who doesn't feel compelled to... advertise/enact their 'cause', whether great or small? I mean I'm the last person who wants or feels the need to stand firmly in a spot when it doesn't seem I even belong there.

otoh, if it's just a matter of 1w9 vs 1w2, and/or ExxJ vs a strong introvert, then I'm open to that too. I guess the only other active introverted e1 I know on the forum is [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION], though she's also a 1w2.

That said... I AM still wanting to gather information and I do know there's a lot of misunderstanding of all types -- I mean, even I think I have a misunderstanding of type 1, as I feel it didn't make sense that all 1's have a compulsion to be 'perfectionistic' and that's the only thing that signifies BEING a 1, so I was/ am open to be one, just as I'm open to NOT being one. I'm not interested in posing as something I'm not iow -- - I'm just wanting to be me and like I said, see where that lands me.
 

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I don't understand why non-9s keep painting us as people that don't understand ourselves. Most 9s don't agree with the bolded.
To quote Enneagram Institute: “...However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity. Ironically, therefore, the only type the Nine is not like is the Nine itself. Being a separate self, an individual who must assert herself against others, is terrifying to Nines. They would rather melt into someone else or quietly follow their idyllic daydreams.”

^ the source for my earlier post. And fwiw being out of touch with your own personality isn’t quite the same as not understanding it. You might get it and choose to disregard it.
 

EJCC

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[MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17945]Stell[/MENTION]

Trying to understand the terminology you're using, I referred to this article: Egosyntonic and egodystonic - Wikipedia

and based on this, to my understanding of the enneagram, 4, 1, and 9 are ALL ego-dystonic. 4 has a very specific ideal self-image that they try to force themselves into because their "real" self is terrible garbage in their view. 1 denies the needs of the body and the soul and calls them "irrelevant" relative to their mission in life. And 9 is so used to blending with the needs of the room that they become utterly out of touch with their own personality - the idea that they are, in fact, a person who can impact other people and the world around them.

This, cascadeco, per your own description, is why I still think you're a 9 - because you can't be a 1 without a certain amount of hubris with regard to your own ability to improve things, in whichever sphere of influence you're most dedicated to. You have to believe that your purpose on this earth is to make things closer to perfect, somehow. I hesitate to speak in such black and white terms about a type, but I struggle to conceptualize a 1 who is not like this.
Believe it or not, [MENTION=24618]misfortuneteller[/MENTION], that last paragraph was an invitation to prove me wrong.

I don’t “love being right” as much as I hate being wrong. So, why is that last paragraph wrong?
 

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otoh, if it's just a matter of 1w9 vs 1w2, and/or ExxJ vs a strong introvert, then I'm open to that too. I guess the only other active introverted e1 I know on the forum is [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION], though she's also a 1w2.

That said... I AM still wanting to gather information and I do know there's a lot of misunderstanding of all types -- I mean, even I think I have a misunderstanding of type 1, as I feel it didn't make sense that all 1's have a compulsion to be 'perfectionistic' and that's the only thing that signifies BEING a 1, so I was/ am open to be one, just as I'm open to NOT being one. I'm not interested in posing as something I'm not iow -- - I'm just wanting to be me and like I said, see where that lands me.

I'm not preventing you from getting information but his/her views on 9s leads me to think he/she is misinformed and would cause you more confusion. I'm just trying to be protective of you.
 

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^ Cool. Well, let the record show that I tried to engage?
 

Peter Deadpan

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I don't understand why non-9s keep painting us as people that don't understand ourselves. Most 9s don't agree with the bolded.

EJCC was correct in her statement.

9s are externally focused and averse to introspection and do indeed base their identity on their relationships with others. They feel that others were born with something that they were not, but unlike 4s, they don't have an acute idea of what it could be. Similar to 5s, they have a sense of emptiness inside, and they avoid feeling that by merging with whatever their instinctual energy inclines them to merge with. Also like 5s, they prefer to stay in the background, but not to maintain distance like a 5, rather they just don't want to bring attention to themselves for fear of inviting criticism or judgement. Harmony is important to them because it reassures their fears that they aren't worthy of love, while negative attention can be quite uncomfortable and cause their avoided feelings to bubble up.

Even on this forum in the blog section, you'll rarely find a true 9 introspecting, and instead their focus will maintain fixation on those around them in their lives.

This wasn't the most fine-tuned description because I'm on lunch, but it's good enough.
 

cascadeco

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I'm not preventing you from getting information but his/her views on 9s leads me to think he/she is misinformed and would cause you more confusion. I'm just trying to be protective of you.

EJCC said:
Believe it or not, [MENTION=24618]misfortuneteller[/MENTION], that last paragraph was an invitation to prove me wrong.

I don’t “love being right” as much as I hate being wrong. So, why is that last paragraph wrong?

[MENTION=24618]misfortuneteller[/MENTION] I do understand that you are trying to do that, and I do appreciate your input/typing, as the whole idea for me pursuing this is that ideally I'd like to see/know where I best fit, and to do that I do need the information and also to see where the gaps might be in terms of your own enneagram knowledge as well as what's being stated here/ common notions of 1's, 9's, and so on.

It is definitely true that in a lot of the enneagram tests (and sure, tests can be crap), 1=perfectionism is the common theme, and that's a reason in the past I scrapped it is a possibility for my type, because I to my knowledge have never had 'perfectionism issues'. [Interestingly, my e5 INFJ friend DOES] So I'm trying to understand whether 1=perfectionism -- and then tying to that, 1=Unstoppable Compulsion to enact change in environment -- is indeed as foundational as is being discussed in this thread.

The last thing I want is to be stuck between two people - both who I find insightful - I'm really just trying to gauge where the 'gap' is between what I'm saying, what other 1's are saying, what you are saying, and so on. I hope that makes sense and I'm not at all trying to take 'sides' or anything (hopefully it doesn't come across that I am ), as I am appreciative of everyone who has offered thoughts on my type.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
It is definitely true that in a lot of the enneagram tests (and sure, tests can be crap), 1=perfectionism is the common theme, and that's a reason in the past I scrapped it is a possibility for my type, because I to my knowledge have never had 'perfectionism issues'. [Interestingly, my e5 INFJ friend DOES] So I'm trying to understand whether 1=perfectionism -- and then tying to that, 1=Unstoppable Compulsion to enact change in environment -- is indeed as foundational as is being discussed in this thread.
In the event that you're a 1 - you identify pretty strongly with sp/so, right? If so, your focus would be on improving yourself and your environment, much more so than the people or systems around you. As a sp/so 1, I would probably identify more with "unstoppable compulsion to improve", than I would identify with the bolded - and I think the 1w9s I know irl would feel the same. They (sp/so 1s and 1w9 folks) can look like 5s, but it's not about learning for the sake of knowing, it's about learning for the sake of making yourself better.
 
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