• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[Traditional Enneagram] How do you feel about your disintegration point?

0

011235813

Guest
Prompted by [MENTION=8031]Ginkgo[/MENTION]'s similar thread on integration points

Disintegration sounds like it's supposed to be unpleasant, but do you feel a paradoxical liking for your disintegration point? Do you feel tempted to slip into it just because you think it's more effective or easy or attractive than your integration point? Do you tend to like or dislike people who are the same enneagram as your disintegration point?

Bonus question for 9s: how do you feel about 6s? :happy2:

E-Disintegrate.gif
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
One thing ive noticed when I go to 3, is that I'll feel really amped and optimistic, but in the midst of my work and focus, I can't help but feel that I'm missing something. I'll be in the middle of work and think "wow, this is all a cover-up for the fact that I'm intrinsically unloveable". At which point I go to the low side of 9 and become completely apathetic to reality.


The low side of 9 is actually a more self-destructive experience for me than the low side of 3.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
What does it feel like to disintegrate to e2?

It feels like codependency. As if many of my actions are contingent upon my worth in the eyes of others and my motivations are ulterior. At worst, not only are they ulterior, but they are rationalized as though they are justified. Then there are two barriers that must be broken in order to access a more innovative mindset I associate with 1ness. In my case, the normal desire to create an identity as a 4 is redirected in the form of an outward desire for progress. So let's say I'm in my 4 range and I feel like my level of expertise falls short of my ideal self - crank that up to my 1 range and I grow confident enough to share what I've learned with others when I see the need. Usually those sorts of behaviors are informative and educational in nature.
 

gromit

likes this
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
6,508
I feel pretty ok about my disintegration.

Actually. I don't really know how I relate to it.
Bonus question for 9s: how do you feel about 6s? :happy2:

I think six people can be kind of... intense, at least on here some of the ones I've interacted with, and maybe I was a little intimidated. But others haven't made me feel that way. I know there are two kinds of 6, so maybe that's it.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
1,053
MBTI Type
NeTi
Enneagram
478
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
The more I learn about type 2, the more I'm starting to like having a connection to it.

The type gets a bum rap online, and (in American circles anyway) is misunderstood as being solely a nurturing, effusive, nicey-nice "people person" who manipulates others. That was what I thought type 2 was about for a long time. I do feel that the common "stereotype" of a 2 is probably more acceptable for someone of my age and gender, but I'm really not that good at acting stereotypically 2ish (and as a triple-reactive 4w5, yeah, I'm sure it'd be more attractive for me to be that that way).

I saw so little of myself in the type when I started enneagram that I neglected reading about the type for many years--it simply wasn't important to me, and I actually ruled out 4 as a type for awhile since I "clearly" didn't have a 2-connection. I was prejudiced due to my ignorance.

Later, I figured out that being a 2 is more about pride, rejecting personal needs, understanding interpersonal relations, being a free spirit, and, yes, giving to get--as well as the ability to be unconditional. As I experience the "disintegration" (I quote, because I see many positive 2 qualities as well), it seems to manifest as
a) not being able to ask for what I need but expecting someone to do something about it anyway;
b) feeling deprived/cheated, but too proud to ask for help;
c) feeling entitled to take what I am owed for all I have suffered and endured; and
d) yes, semi-deliberate, melodramatic emotional manipulation (that whole, "I'm going to start crying to get my way" thing).

I've yet to see the co-dependence really come into play--or else I'm far too proud to admit it. ;)

EDIT: Well, sorry for being all self-absorbed with that post. I should have added how I feel about 2s in general.

TBH, I don't really know too many of them, with the exception of my mother's ENFJ type 2 friend. We do get along really well--she's theatrical and likes the same sorts of magical stuff that I do. She's big on manners and refinement, and she likes the fact that I tend to share her sense of these things. She draws out my extroverted side; others find her intrusive (I think she actually annoys my mother more than me).

^Take that for what it's worth.
 
Last edited:

five sounds

MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
5,393
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
729
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm scared as hell of one. I am definitely prone to clinging to perfectionism and my ideals of what should be when I'm under stress or feeling inadequate. I hate the way this makes me feel, and I often get my priorities all mixed up when I'm swinging this way. I'm sure there's a better-adjusted way to be a one, but since it's my disintegration point, I go about it all wrong and end up winding myself up in the hysteria of trying to do everything right. It's exhausting and I often need a lot of time and work to get back in a good place from there.
 

pinkgraffiti

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
1,482
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
748
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
i would like us to get married and have kids.

no, i hate it. the only worst thing about the silent perfectionist-hitler in me is when i have irrational uncontrollable accesses of rage, 8 like.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Some 9s make me anxious especially the super high F ones. Always needing to keep the peace and making sure everyone is happy in a super forced optimistic way.

However, I really do like the mellow/calm, go with the flow variety.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm trying to change my attitude towards fours. My gut reaction is colored by my experience disintegrating to four, which means that I constantly project onto them. "Would you people calm down?? No one cares about this as much as you do! Take a chill pill and get back to real life!" = my reaction to myself when I'm in that mood, as well as my internal reaction to emotional fours.

It's almost exactly the same as my instinctive reaction to INFPs, because in both cases, I view their displays of emotion as "overreaction". It's frustrating, because it gets in the way of actually handling INFPs and fours appropriately when they get upset. (I've had an upset INFP 4 friend get even more upset when I didn't react emotionally enough to the same thing she was reacting to! Apparently she bitched me out behind my back for being "cold-hearted". :dry: )
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
I detest 2's with the white hot fury on 1 million twisting suns whirling in a dance club while letting large sweaty sun drops fall everywhere and make burning sounds.

The clinginess is so horrifying... to go from being self-contained and independent into an oozing puddle of helpless piddle is something I don't wish on anyone.
 

Evo

Unapologetic being
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,160
MBTI Type
XNTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
When I think of myself being 3- like I have mixed feelings

I view it now as immature

If I feel like I need to get more and more done...I know it's a sign that I need to stop lol

in that way I've grown out of it.

Although there are times where it kicks me in the ass

I don't consciously think I care about other's opinions of me but sometimes I do without realizing it.

Then I get ashamed of myself and feel shallow

I hate shallow.

At that time I'm more apt to feel sick when I see myself do 3 stuffs.

In the past couple months I have come to better terms with it.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Gross... Just ICK.

But actual 2s can be cool, as long as they don't try to emotionally manipulate me (which they often do). Sometimes they are just too into themselves & their own emotions & I am too into me, and so there's a clash there. The phony emotion & covert neediness from them can be problematic as well. I tend to associate it heavily with Fe....

It feels like codependency. As if many of my actions are contingent upon my worth in the eyes of others and my motivations are ulterior. At worst, not only are they ulterior, but they are rationalized as though they are justified.

Yes..... for me this goes beyond a needy/clingy aspect where I give to others in secret hopes they give me back what I need (ie. telling people I missed them at a social event because I'd like others to feel my absences); it goes into 2 into "seduction" territory.

----

I wrote this on another forum:
PRIDE: Tend to drop comments into conversation which are kind of braggy. Creating an enviable image - others envy YOU. They dislike you because they envy you, not because you're an aloof snob or some other e4 demeanor problem.

Letting people know how selfless I am, that I suffer for the greater good. Helping to be liked instead of helping out of principle (difference in e1 or e2 helping e4s might engage in - one is to gain something for yourself & the other is just because it's the right thing to do).

I associate 4 elitism with 2 disintegration - the place where envy is denied with pride. Rejection of needing anyone out of pride.

SEDUCTION - Obsession with attracting others. Start to do inappropriate things to attract people, often ones unavailable to you in some way (or people you don't really want). Seeking proof of your own desirability - not being broken & repulsive because of it, but able to attract if so inclined (you just haven't been inclined thus far, haha yeah right). Instead of making people come to you by being so mysterious & cool, you think you can instead manipulate them into your hands (which you justify as being some extension of your deep grasp of how people work emotionally *insert eye roll here* ). People who come to you too easily may be scorned a bit or simply not "counted" as a victory, so that you're in a perpetual cycle of seduction-frustration, spiraling downward into the pit of being totally ugly on the inside, bitterly envying those who get what they want "so easily".

There's also playing therapist to create some emotional dependency as a way to feel significant to someone or just significant in general because of your "insight".

Later, I figured out that being a 2 is more about pride, rejecting personal needs, understanding interpersonal relations, being a free spirit, and, yes, giving to get--as well as the ability to be unconditional. As I experience the "disintegration" (I quote, because I see many positive 2 qualities as well), it seems to manifest as
a) not being able to ask for what I need but expecting someone to do something about it anyway;
b) feeling deprived/cheated, but too proud to ask for help;
c) feeling entitled to take what I am owed for all I have suffered and endured; and
d) yes, semi-deliberate, melodramatic emotional manipulation (that whole, "I'm going to start crying to get my way" thing).

These apply also. I'm not one to use tears as manipulation, but to get out of stuff I have emphasized my own hurt over something. It's the way a 4 can be above the rules & standards everyone else has to live by.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I tend to think people who are constantly obsessed with their image to others are annoying, which is part of how I figured out I am not a four, because they are image obsessed too in a different way. They think they are their image.

I know I am not.

But I disintegrate to three and become obsessed with winning. I actually think it's healthy to act out my shadow, because I am so conscious of how theatrical it is that it's like a form of creativity that comes from darkness.

I have had a six year relationship with a three and a close friendship with another one. I honestly find them easier to deal with than fives sometimes.

But other times they are pure unspeakable unadulterated evil. So are eights.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
When I think of myself being 3- like I have mixed feelings

I view it now as immature

If I feel like I need to get more and more done...I know it's a sign that I need to stop lol

in that way I've grown out of it.

Although there are times where it kicks me in the ass

I don't consciously think I care about other's opinions of me but sometimes I do without realizing it.

Then I get ashamed of myself and feel shallow

I hate shallow.

At that time I'm more apt to feel sick when I see myself do 3 stuffs.

In the past couple months I have come to better terms with it.

My favorite thing in the world was being called shallow by my three friend because I like athletic men etc...but then she turns around and says she likes being better looking than her mate. She was totally serious. And her motivation was very three, so he would treat her like a queen bee and she could be "the best looking person in the room" (her words not mine).

My shallowness is more lust driven than image driven. Like an eight motivation really more than a six.

Any type can be shallow. Nine can be shallow because they refuse to deal with real underlying issues. Four can be almost comically elitist or pretentious.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Fives are supposed to distintegrate to Seven.

Yeah, it's a blast in some ways (to just stop thinking and let yourself be swept away by so much stimulation and pinging off everything), but it's also exhausting, meaningless in the end, and you feel passive in a sense because you're just the pingpong ball bouncing off all those walls and not in control or directing yourself from inside. Just one huge diversion from life, looking for your next fix.

Integration point of Eight takes more effort but it's far more empowering to assert yourself in the world after collecting all that knowledge and experience and feel like you have focus for your life.

Funny that I have a strong Four wing, and it disintegrates to Two. Yeah, anyone who has talked to me about my past experiences knows how I got bent kind of into a Two shape as an easy way to appease those around me and that I feel pressure to devolve into that due to it being an easy way to ingratiate yourself to others (by suppressing the individual self).
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I think I have a lot to learn from 3's talent at self-presentation and efficiency. But in general 3's strategies don't address the over-thinking I do as a 6, so it doesn't offer the same balmy comfort and empowerment that integration does. I tend to like 3s, but I also tend to feel tense around them because I am not as good at presenting myself, and so can easily feel like I am losing a competition when interacting with or around them. However, the more I integrate, the less I feel that.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I think I have a lot to learn from 3's talent at self-presentation and efficiency. But in general 3's strategies don't address the over-thinking I do as a 6, so it doesn't offer the same balmy comfort and empowerment that integration does. I tend to like 3s, but I also tend to feel tense around them because I am not as good at presenting myself, and so can easily feel like I am losing a competition when interacting with or around them. However, the more I integrate, the less I feel that.

It baffled and later she admitted sometimes intimidated my three friend that I wasn't as impressed with her as everyone else. My ex who is a three said something similar to me. But I did end up competing with both of them in some way.

I bring something to threes that tells them I am not one of their minions. That is pretty much the secret of getting a three to adore you.

I still feel inadequate though if I am not centered and at a low point and they start viciously attacking my image. Then I feel the deep conflict and disgust.

But if I am at a reasonable health level I seem to enjoy them just as much as nines.

I have had a confirmed nine try to tear me apart, but he was unhealthy and nines disintegrate at six, so it was like two terrified reactive people eating each other's souls, trying to get the other before they get you.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
It baffled and later she admitted sometimes intimidated my three friend that I wasn't as impressed with her as everyone else.[...]
I still feel inadequate though if I am not centered and at a low point and they start viciously attacking my image. Then I feel the deep conflict and disgust.

Right? I know that feeling. My best friend for several years was a 3w4, and I both had moments of clarity where I was especially good at seeing through her mask as well as moments of inadequacy where I would feel like I was her "sidekick" instead of an equal. I guess with it being our disintegration point, we're particularly equipped to be able to see its flaws for what they are, but when we lean too far that way we get trapped in its thinking, too.
 
Top