Enneatype and Cultural Upbringing

[Stansmith]

Do you think there certain societies where certain types wouldn't develop? I can't see people in hunter-gatherer societies or extremely impoverished nations being 4s for example. 4 in general seems like a very "first-world" fixation, and its usually in developed countries where you find more depressed and romantic types.

 

[Stansmith]

3 is probably less common too, since social climbing isn't as easy. Plus, parents are more likely to encourage homely family/community values into their children instead of achievement.

Although in extreme cases I could see 3s who were born in poverty becoming drug lords or something to that effect.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

I've actually heard speculation that type 3 is a "new" phenomenon, brought about by the Industrial era and the consequent need for "marketing", but saying that "new types" can appear seems, to me, equivalent to saying that human nature changes. Also, it would be hard to see how 9s would have integrated and what wings 2s and 4s might have had before that.

Also, I hope you (everyone) realize that 4 is more than being "depressed" and "romantic". It's really more about attending to loss, and about the need for individuality, which are core human issues. In a hunting-gathering society, 4s might be the mystics, the master of ceremonies, or the ones reminding the tribesmen that "eagles do not need to be crows". They remind everyone that our world is beautiful and our lives have meaning.

Maybe the way our fixations play into modern society is a current, first-world phenomenon, but I'm pretty sure all the types have always been a part of humanity.

 

[21%]

You have a interesting point, but I think any type can manifest in any kind of culture. The common description of 4s we go by now may seem very first-world, but I can easily imagine a 4 in a tribal setting. In fact, I can easily imagine any type in that kind of setting -- they will be different, of course, for example, 3s will want to excel at everything, be extremely well-liked and popular. They will strive to be the fastest runner, the best hunter, someone who the group will admire. 4s will be the jealous type who feels somewhat alienated and a bit "woe is me", and the type who runs away to jump off a waterfall to die for their forbidden love, etc.

 

[EJCC]

Worth bringing up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs in this context, i.e. the fact that you can only self-actualize when your most basic human needs are met. I'm pretty certain that all types exist in all societies, but depending on your living conditions, many aspects of that may not show up. Just like the example in the OP: Why care about uniqueness when you're constantly on the brink of starvation?

Edit: I agree with [MENTION=6971]21%[/MENTION] -- my example is shitty, since if your society is functional at all, most of your citizens should be able to self-actualize most of the time. I got way too sucked into the OP.

 

[21%]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] I agree with you that if you are living in a war zone or somewhere you need to struggle just to survive, your enneagram types (and personality types) might not show at all.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

^Well yeah. Going along with what others are saying, I'm a core 4 who's actually had a very difficult last few years.

I promise, all the self-pity goes out the window when you're just trying to survive. I've seen sides of myself I never knew existed. That's why I'm such a voice for, "4s aren't all depressed losers and creative geniuses!" even though I have certainly experienced my share of self-loathing and depression. Mock my Fi, but we're humans first, and we've got non-type-specific capabilities that will override the enneagram fixations from time to time.

I still think the fixations are as ancient as our species, though, possibly much older than that.

 

[thoughtlost]

^Well yeah. Going along with what others are saying, I'm a core 4 who's actually had a very difficult last few years.

I promise, all the self-pity goes out the window when you're just trying to survive. I've seen sides of myself I never knew existed. That's why I'm such a voice for, "4s aren't all depressed losers and creative geniuses!" even though I have certainly experienced my share of self-loathing and depression. Mock my Fi, but we're humans first, and we've got non-type-specific capabilities that will override the enneagram fixations from time to time.

I still think the fixations are as ancient as our species, though, possibly much older than that.

Awh, I guess this is what makes me most sad about life. It hurts me to think that a person could lose their inner beauty by being disabled in some way, caught in the middle of a horrible war, or just put in any circumstance where they can't express their human-ness in their own way. And now that I think about it even further, my favorite stories are always about people going through the most dehumanizing situations...

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Awh, I guess this is what makes me most sad about life. It hurts me to think that a person could lose their inner beauty by being disabled in some way, caught in the middle of a horrible war, or just put in any circumstance where they can't express their human-ness in their own way. And now that I think about it even further, my favorite stories are always about people going through the most dehumanizing situations...

The human spirit always endures.