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  1. #11
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
    5w4 sx/so


    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Really interesting thread, @Seymour. Very apropos of this one .

    I wonder, though, what this really adds to the core enneagram theory. The correlations between these schema and the associated enneagram fixations seem kind of obvious. Is this a way to examine a system of complexes that can spring up around a fixation? Is it like a deconstruction of the core fixation itself? Or perhaps some combination of both or neither?

    So, I think the relationship between between schema therapy and the Enneagram are interesting for a few reasons.

    • Schema therapy comes from an entirely different lineage (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, psychoanalytic object relations, Attachment Theory, and Gestalt therapy) that has nothing to do with the enneagram.
    • The maladaptive schemas are clearly trying to capture some of the same issues that enneagram types try to capture.
    • The maladaptive schemas are somewhat finer grained than enneagram type (even if some have multiple manifestations)
    • Kristin Neff combines schema therapy with meditation in her book Self Compassion, which gives her book a particularly enneagram-ish feel in some ways (meditation is an important part of enneagram teachings)

    So, at first blush (I'm still coming up to speed on schema therapy), it seems like viewing the enneagram through the lens of schema therapy offers some interesting perspectives. It gives one a way to be a little more fine-grained about one's issues (and helps one see how one's type fits or doesn't fit the schema correlations).

    It would also be interesting to look at correlations of the maladaptive schemas, and see if they naturally group into their enneagram correlations. That would, in some sense, provide a certain kind of weak validation that the groups of issues found in the enneagram (perhaps including wings or tri-types) actually cluster together in reality.

    One of the frustrating things to me about the enneagram is that it lacks a sense of inevitability. Why these particular 9 types? Why these lines of connection? While there are lots of cool patterns among enneagram types (centers, against/away/towards, etc), there's a certain amount of "because that's the way it is" involved. And sometimes certain kinds of pattern-finding in the enneagram begins to feel like numerology. It would be nice if one could either theorize one's way to the enneagram layout from first principles, or empirically show that it reflects reality.

    So, finding another take on some of the same stuff is both personally interesting (to see how I do/don't fit the enneagram type I identify with) and also provides a way to evaluate the enneagram. I'm don't know enough to claim one interpretation of the relationship between the two systems has a particular meaning... just that I'm finding it interesting.

    That do you think?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    5w6 sx/so


    Are we finding evidence to back up theories or theories to back up evidence?

    I don't know, but things like the so-called 'evidence' can be twisted and misinterpreted.

    People who obsess about evidence come to conclude things like "God isn't real" or that "magic powers are fake" and so forth.

    A kid of sufficient open-mindedness and reason though (and there seem to be a lot more of them in comparison to conditioned adults) would use his/her imagination to deduce something more novel such as "what if God is much older than we are" and "could magic be science we don't yet understand" all the way as far as the chains of rationality can reach.

    That's why when we develop personality systems, we should really introspect a lot and rely less on systematic experiments in order to find out the mysteries of the mind (which may transcend the definition of 'real' [the very things that 'evidence' banks on]).

    Zang for instance has a well-developed metagram system devoid of any empirical testing; it's all the pure "I am that I am".

  3. #13
    Ratchet Ass Moon Fairy Comeback Girl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    2w3 sx/so
    yolo Ni


    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    They have a test you can take here:

    It's short and prone to odd results (self-sacrifice, WTF??), but I've found mine to more-or-less accurately reflect what you'd expect of someone of my type, wing, and tritype.

    Oops... Never crossed my mind that I could be troubled.

    Ewww is the new sexy

    Hi! Ask me things, maybe I'll answer them! Just click here

    And here's my functions: Se-Te-Fi-Fe-Ni-Ti-Ne-Si

  4. #14
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009


    Thanks for posting this info, @Seymour.

    Interesting thread, as usual.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6

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