Difference between E3 and E7?

[Zarathustra]

I disagree with this.

I think your entire construction is retarded.

 

[Elfboy]

I think your entire construction is retarded.

oh really? could you explain rather than be condescending?

 

[Zarathustra]

oh really? could you explain rather than be condescending?

Can you think without slapping together a bunch of crap that shouldn't be slapped together?

 

[lunalum]

But yeah, 3=extrinsic in heart vs. 7=extrinsic in head is a good sum up. I like the chart Mane posted too. I fit more of 7 but some of the 3 stuff.

 

[Elfboy]

Can you think without slapping together a bunch of crap that shouldn't be slapped together?

it's not a hard visual model to grasp.

my main point was that both 7s and 8s typically relate least to the heart triad
7: head>gut>heart
8: gut>head>heart

both 7s and 8s have shallow emotional affect and experience emotions less strongly than other types. issues of self worth or guilt are typically foreign to them.

 

[Entropic]

I disagree about making any claims on the order of preference when it comes to tritype. I'm head > gut > heart and I'm a type 5, the most removed from gut. On the question whether I am? Yes, clearly, but motivationally, gut fix takes precedence over heart. Unless we see some tangible statistics (unlikely to ever happen), I really doubt the validity of assuming people should or be anything at all of any order.

 

[Entropic]

Why are the members of the Attachment Group the only ones that are connected to their respective triads twice, when they're supposed to be the most detached from their triads?

For example, 9 is at the center of the gut triad, which has been labelled Intrinsic. If 9 is double-intrinsic, why are they said to be the most out of touch their gut?

Because of the Law of Three. [MENTION=7984]Dying Acedia[/MENTION] wrote a thread about this.

 

[Stansmith]

I want to be cool and succesful, and I want to have fun and achieve greatness. I still can't choose after reading through this thread.

If it means anything, I always present myself in a very composed, calculated manner body-language wise, even when I'm excited. I never really bounce off walls in the physical sense.

 

[Amargith]

^ Crazy guess: 3-7-1 tritype

 

[mintleaf]

This is one question I've had myself, and one question for which I've never felt I had quite a sufficient answer.

I don't have a strong enough understanding of why whomever (Riso & Hudson? Others?) has posited that types at the center of their instinctual triad are the least connected with their center say this is supposedly so.

Personally, as a 6, I don't feel particularly disconnected with my thoughts.*

*I just feel like I've got tons of thoughts, and that, frankly, my thinking is more pure than, say, the thinking of a 5, which, imo, is improperly connected with their gut (i.e., my thinking is more purely systemic, and thus objective, whereas their thinking gets mixed up with their gut [i.e., the Intrinsic], and thus often becomes tainted with a lack of objectivity).

Do 9s actually feel that disconnected from their gut?

Do 3s feel that disconnected from their heart/image?

Naranjo said of Riso & Hudson that they added stuff to the theory that he didn't particularly agree with.

I don't know if this is one of those things, or what.

Also (and this is my last thought on the matter [and perhaps the answer is as simple as this]): being in the center of one's triad is like being in the eye of the hurricane -- while you might be right in the middle of it, you're, at the same time, oddly, in a certain way, not experiencing it.

Using the example of 9s again -- maybe it's that they may become overwhelmed with the intrinsic and, having nowhere else to go, detach. Whereas the other gut types have a foot in another world that they can escape to without having to shut down. But I don't know if that makes sense; I don't know what a 3 detaching from the extrinsic would look like, or a 6 detaching from the systemic, though those are very vague ideas

(actually, as a 6, I can kind of see how anxiety/paranoia relates to being overwhelmed by and then detaching from systemic thinking...I just don't know how to explain it)

Or maybe it's that, to best see and interact with the world you're from, you need another to push up against?

 

[Zarathustra]

Using the example of 9s again -- maybe it's that they may become overwhelmed with the intrinsic and, having nowhere else to go, detach. Whereas the other gut types have a foot in another world that they can escape to without having to shut down. But I don't know if that makes sense; I don't know what a 3 detaching from the extrinsic would look like, or a 6 detaching from the systemic, though those are very vague ideas

(actually, as a 6, I can kind of see how anxiety/paranoia relates to being overwhelmed by and then detaching from systemic thinking...I just don't know how to explain it)

Or maybe it's that, to best see and interact with the world you're from, you need another to push up against?

I'm not saying I've got answers here, but just some more thoughts:

Once again, I don't know that 9s are necessarily detached from the intrinsic. Their ability to allow the extrinsic to just wash over them, and essentially ignore it, seems to me like a phenomenal ability to focus entirely on the intrinsic, and thus shut out the extrinsic (and systemic). They might ignore their inner anger, or something, but they don't seem to wholeheartedly ignore the intrinsic.

As for 6s, I see tons of systemic thinking in them. When 6s get worked up, it's because they genuinely think what is happening/being discussed is systemically wrong, and, at least in terms of the specific system their working with (i.e., their highly-thought-out worldview), they are indeed bringing up genuine systemic problems (now, whether they're overemphasizing the things they're complaining about, due to the lopsidedness of their system/worldview, well, that depends on the rationality, objectivity, and sanity of that particular 6, but they definitely all seem to have a strong connection to the systemic).

As for 3s, they definitely seem to be attached to the extrinsic. (I won't go into them in any more detail, as I'm sure you get the picture I'm painting, and I don't feel I understand 3s as well as the other two.)

As such, what I would caution you from doing, when thinking in terms of Molina's addition of the Hartman Value Profile to the Enneagram, is the same thing I censured [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] for: don't simply equate the Intrinsic and the Gut, the Extrinsic and the Heart, the Systemic and the Head; but, rather, recognize the Gut center as the center focused on the Intrinsic value dimension, the Heart center as the center focused on the Extrinsic value dimension, and the Head center as the center focused on the Systemic value dimension. Then, consider that, among the three types within each center, there is one type that has its specific manifestation in (or has its specific focus on) each of the three value dimensions (the Intrinsic, the Extrinsic, and the Systemic).

 

[mintleaf]

I'm not saying I've got answers here, but just some more thoughts:

Once again, I don't know that 9s are necessarily detached from the intrinsic. Their ability to allow the extrinsic to just wash over them, and essentially ignore it, seems to me like a phenomenal ability to focus entirely on the intrinsic, and thus shut out the extrinsic (and systemic). They might ignore their inner anger, or something, but they don't seem to wholeheartedly ignore the intrinsic.

As for 6s, I see tons of systemic thinking in them. When 6s get worked up, it's because they genuinely think what is happening/being discussed is systemically wrong, and, at least in terms of the specific system their working with (i.e., their highly-thought-out worldview), they are indeed bringing up genuine systemic problems (now, whether they're overemphasizing the things they're complaining about, due to the lopsidedness of their system/worldview, well, that depends on the rationality, objectivity, and sanity of that particular 6, but they definitely all seem to have a strong connection to the systemic).

As for 3s, they definitely seem to be attached to the extrinsic. (I won't go into them in any more detail, as I'm sure you get the picture I'm painting, and I don't feel I understand 3s as well as the other two.)

As such, what I would caution you from doing, when thinking in terms of Molina's addition of the Hartman Value Profile to the Enneagram, is the same thing I censured [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] for: don't simply equate the Intrinsic and the Gut, the Extrinsic and the Heart, the Systemic and the Head; but, rather, recognize the Gut center as the center focused on the Intrinsic value dimension, the Heart center as the center focused on the Extrinsic value dimension, and the Head center as the center focused on the Systemic value dimension. Then, consider that, among the three types within each center, there is one type that has its specific manifestation in (or has its specific focus on) each of the three value dimensions (the Intrinsic, the Extrinsic, and the Systemic).

oh, sorry, I just meant that the detachment might occur when unhealthy. of course 3s, 6s and 9s are usually deeply attached to their respective value dimensions.

interesting. thanks for the clarification in the last paragraph.