[Tritype] A New Tritype System

[brainheart]

Tritypes have been bugging me for a long time. I really dislike the idea that you can pick and choose between each of the centers. It's sloppy and inelegant and for this reason just seems wrong to me. So I started playing around with the enneagram, and couldn't help but notice something. The object relation, harmonic, and social styles all create tritypes, and they all lead to a connection of every single point in the enneagram. (Try it out for yourself.)

I could make this long, but I won't. To keep it short and sweet, I have reached the conclusion that there are three possible tritypes for each enneatype:

126, 147, 135 (compliant, frustrated, competent)
261, 258, 279 (compliant, rejected, positive)
378, 369, 351 (assertive, attached, competent)
459, 471, 468 (withdrawn, frustrated, reactive)
594, 582, 513 (withdrawn, rejected, competent)
612, 693, 684 (compliant, attached, reactive)
783, 714, 792 (assertive, frustrated, positive)
837, 825, 846 (assertive, rejected, reactive)
945, 936, 927 (withdrawn, attached, positive)

All three of these give a very distinct, particular flavor to the core type. When you add the tritype of your wing, it gets even more distinct and particular. I will use myself as an example. I relate to the social style structure of my type the most, which is withdrawn. This is quite obvious because the only three types I've considered as potential core types for myself are 4, 5, and 9. Through lots of introspection and study I have reached the conclusion that I am a nine, and that my wing must be a one because I also relate to the frustrated object relation quite a bit, despite the fact that I am an attachment type. (My attachment style takes precedence over my frustration. I will adapt for the sake of harmony vs leave a situation, although I will be stewing about it, ha.) For this reason, I am a withdrawn nine with a tinge of the frustrated one. I can write it out, in tritype form, like so- 945/147.

I think this explains a lot of differences between types. For example, there are the more assertive sevens, and there are the more positive sevens, as well as more frustrated sevens. This really seems to run across the board for all core types.

This is a good source for the social styles, harmonics, and object relations- http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/index.html

Thoughts?

 

[Amargith]

Id have to be a 2 for your system to work for me

 

[011235813]

This seems as sloppy and inelegant to me as tritype as it's normally done seems to you. You're just picking and choosing from different categories here, it's really not much different in terms of method apart from being even more complicated.

The basis for tritype is that people deal with shame, fear, and anger in different ways. I can get on board with that because it's true. I'm having a harder time seeing the underlying motivations in your system of assigning types.

 

[Such Irony]

Here's a perhaps unrelated question about tritype:

Why is it that you must choose one type in the head center, one type in the heart center, and one type in the gut center?

Why not, say, one withdrawn type, one compliant type, and one assertive type?

Or why not one frustration type, one rejection type, and one attached type?

Or if I'm very head centered and not much heart or gut centered, why can't I just pick 3 head types?

Or just pick the three types that fit me best?

See what I'm getting at here?


In the OP's system, I think my tritype would be 594 with my wing as 693.

 

[Animal]

Here's a perhaps unrelated question about tritype:

Why is it that you must choose one type in the head center, one type in the heart center, and one type in the gut center?

Why not, say, one withdrawn type, one compliant type, and one assertive type?

Or why not one frustration type, one rejection type, and one attached type?

Or if I'm very head centered and not much heart or gut centered, why can't I just pick 3 head types?

Or just pick the three types that fit me best?

See what I'm getting at here?


In the OP's system, I think my tritype would be 594 with my wing as 693.

The reason is because according to enneagram overall, everyone has a heart, gut, and mind. Therefore we each have a fix in heart, gut, and mind. That's the basis of the whole system. The same divisions are made for will, mind, and emotion. We all have to deal with these aspects of ourselves one way or anohter; hence tritype covers all three.

 

[Flatlander]

Here's a perhaps unrelated question about tritype:

Why is it that you must choose one type in the head center, one type in the heart center, and one type in the gut center?

The point is that your core(s) explain how you relate to the emotions of: shame, fear, and anger. You can't have two different core ways of relating to shame, which would mean two different heart types, because each ONE heart type moves in a different way as a person goes through dis/integration, and the evolutionary perspective becomes part of the pattern description of the type.

Leaving out the dynamics of enneagram as you describe it is the error of many sources. Instead they paint pictures of the type that capture what it seems like but not what it is.

As to the OP, why you can't do this system is related back to this point. Yeah there are different triads, and there will be some people who fit into the archetype of, say, triple competent, or triple withdrawn, etc. but then you ignore how the different points relate to others and how complex a person's psyche can actually get.

I'll use myself as an example. I'm a 592 tritype. I don't say this simply out of relation to type 5, type 9, or type 2. I did deep introspection well before I got to Enneagram and I could identify myself properly as a core 5, I have always been avarice-driven, habitually withholding myself from the world, I have soul child at 8 and the lust for understanding as power that typically develops in the type 5.

Type 9 comes in not just as an accent to my withdrawal, but it also increases my bent toward finding harmonious viewpoints, tendency to give in to certain people when they're pressing me - accents my overall avoidance of conflict.

Type 2 took me more thought to reach. I had to look at myself behaviorally to figure out what I was doing, and that's not my normal mode of introspection. But when I examine myself that way, I tend to be a mentor figure to fill others' needs, I actually have a push to help people when I see them as not having reached clarity of understanding. Because within my own psyche, understanding is god: when I've reached understanding, I have seen through reality and tend to see nothing as insurmountable. And so this is the mindset with which I reach out into the world to help others, and I stop when it's clear that they aren't going to listen or aren't worth my effort, so 5 avarice comes back into play as a dominant mechanism and I disengage.

I developed type 5 predominantly because I was in a withdrawn household and I felt threatened and undernourished but was wild and based in unengaged lust. I developed type 9 secondarily because of all the 6-9 influence (two sixes) and the father who modeled 5-9 for me as a way to help escape the world, so it came first from an external model. I couldn't understand the 2 part of me until I was out of my family and interacting with the rest of the world, because with the family it always goes back to the withdrawing and self-preservation, especially in the 5ish sense, but when I understood it through Enneagram it clicked - I think I ended up with 2 in my type as a reaction to the lack of substantial nurturing that I received as a kid, and so it comes out in a way that's kind of equivalently perverted through the core, see the former paragraph.

Do you see? I am decidedly not 594, I don't have the same kind of motivational drive around 4, but I've isolated each element of my tritype correctly and can explain to you how the 9 and 2 fit into and augment my 5 core. That's what you should be looking for with tritype - how do the other fixes play out in your psychology, what are their conscious strength within you to determine their order of fixation after the core. and so forth. If you pursue tritype after really having isolated your core, you'll have the best result - looking at them as total archetypes, you miss the point of the system as doing more than simply helping you to describe your persona.

 

[Entropic]

Similarly, I'm not a 582 or a 594, but 548, undeniably so. All 548 tritype descriptions as vague as they may sound, do describe me pretty darn well. Why is that? Because the way my mind works and operates is that it's ultimately driven by envy as a way to deal with shame, not pride, just like how I deal with my sense of vulnerability by becoming angry and falling back on envy/vengeance think to fuel the fire. I do think I can exhibit 2 influences in my overall thought patterns and behavior but most importantly, I think those patterns are in fact sx 5-driven rather than 2-driven, or a result from a connection to 2 from 4 and 8 rather than core motivations.

I generally feel like I have a strong and good understanding of myself and my person. It was difficult for me to ultimately pin down my gut fixation because my 4 influence gives me a strong connection to 1 and being an Fi type, my Fi rants can sound very 1-ish, but at some level I knew that 1 wasn't right for me, 8 is. Except for the beginning when I mistook my 5 withdrawn behavior for 9-ness, it became clear rather quickly that I'm not 9-fixed. I do not desire peace and harmony. The only time I ever desire "peace" although I think the word itself is quite the overstatement, is when people's personal bickering gets in the way of my goals, of what I want and what I desire. Let's say I'm playing League of Legends and I'm stuck in these game with 4 other people and two of them start arguing about which one is the worse player to the detriment of the entire team because they refuse to cooperate and we begin losing.

What I'm doing is most likely very opposite of what a 9 would be doing - I'll tell them to stfu and start cooperate and I'll super-impose my will if I must, I take control. Why? Because they make it impossible to have what I want, and what I want is that I want to win. See how the lust starts creeping into my very language? It's about what I want, what I need, what I desire, and no one is going to stop me from getting it, and especially not two idiots who think they are professional LoL players despite being stuck in the lowest levels of bronze league. I don't care if they will continue their arguments way after the game ends. They can go argue how much they want to me but when their arguing gets in the way of what I desire, then fuck that shit. Go argue somewhere else but not in my game.

And when we talk about 4 influences, it's not just wing influence we're talking about. The wing makes me anxious when I become uncertain of my own identity and who I am and what I know about myself, but the 4 fixation is undeniable and has a logical explanation in that I've always been considered strange, odd and an outsider from the very day I was born. I used to be more envious when I was younger but I still exhibit the mindset of counter-envy. I do not deal with shame in a 2-ish way. Personally, I see more 2 traits in me in the sense that when I trust you fully, I'll give you everything you need. It's the way I show love and care. I see that connection from 8 > 2. I'm giving of myself in an 8-way.

That I became 8-fixed over 9-fixed has a logical explanation in how my family became organized over time. My father met a new woman when I was a young teenager and she and I didn't get along at all. There were a lot of conflicts in the household as a result. I often felt that my father betrayed me because he never stood up for me. I had to deal with my stepmother on my own. It was indeed me against the world. I never experienced emotional support in conflict, that people stood up for me. I was left alone to fight back and it really solidified the new in me that if I want something I can't expect others to do it for me, I need to do it on my own because no one else will. Dog-eat-dog mentality.

It's not just a matter of experiencing connections due to wing/lines of connection; I clearly experience these influences as core motivations in myself and they define how I operate as a person. They clearly affect my psyche. There are for instance a lot of withdrawn and peaceful 5s. I'm not withdrawn or peaceful. Why? 8 connection. There are also a lot of 5s who aren't overly concerned about identity or what they cannot have but I am. Why? 4 wing and fixation.

You're theory is no better than actual tritype theory except that you reduce individuals even further and away from reality. We are more complex and unique than this. Not every 5 with an 8 fix is going to deal with shame in a 2 way. Why should they? You're more concerned about your theory being elegantly consistent than whether it's realistic. I like tritype theory exactly because it provides an explanation why people of the same core types can still be so different and even at first glance be misaken for another type.

A perfect example is comparing me and Flatlander. I doubt anyone would not mistake him for a 5 but many mistake me for a 4 or even a 6 (CP 6 wing, sx energy and 8 fixation, Fi-Te dominance). Why is that? Tritype. I've spoken to Flatlander at length for months now and there are a lot of similarities in how we operate but as personalities we are also very different. We don't view conflict the same way and we don't deal with shame the same way. If it's less choice that you want, then just stick to core type. Why dabbling with tritype at all if you aren't interested in trying to account for individual uniqueness but just pretending to be.

 

[Eric B]

@Such_Irony There are other three-way pairings. Check the PerC tritype thread; IIRC, that's where someone had linked to this site that mentions them. (Can't look it up right now, but ran across it again recently).

Of course, what I always wished they would do is allow stackings of different types (any combo) in the instinctual variants. (like 4so8sp6sx)

 

[Entropic]

Of course, what I always wished they would do is allow stackings of different types (any combo) in the instinctual variants. (like 4so8sp6sx)

Read Flatlander's post why this isn't possible. It's the same reason why you'd need to Fe if you're an Fi type. You already have a preference so why would you do both? It's just counter-intuitive for your psyche. Why deal with anxiety in both a 5 and 7 way if your core type is 5? You already got a defense mechanism that works.

Also, we do express all our instincts but we give prevalence to two over the third which is why it's a blind spot because we tend to ignore it. I think instincts can appear differently in different tritype cores in the same individual but I think most of all, if you have a preference for sx/sp, that's how you'll appear as in all the fixation points.

 

[madhatter]

I disagree that this is the way to solve the tritype problem. Mostly, I don't see the system of having one type from every center as inelegant or slap-dash. In fact, when I learned about tritype, that aspect made a lot of logical sense to me. Within the centers, there are three key emotions that all humans share and ultimately have different reactions too: anger (conflict), fear/anxiety, shame (pride). I believe that the core type is the most important aspect of the Enneagram in terms of growth and personal understanding. But, there are more pieces to me besides this "fear" that rules a type 5. I accept the fact that Enneagram can't explain everything, but I can't deny there is a specific way I handle anger and conflict, and another specific way I deal with shame. And giving me the only options of 594, 582 and 513 doesn't work for me. I can accept a 9-fix, but there is no way I have a 4-fix. I have a 8-fix, but there is no way I have a 2-fix. I have a 3-fix, but there is no way I'm a 1-fixer. 4, 2, and 1 are the type I relate to the least. So this new system has no place for me, and therein lies the problem.

Now, I love to use the triads in conjunction with tritype, to understand now triadic dynamics will affect a core type. Using triads and my tritype of 538, I am what you could call a pragmatic or assertive 5, or I have even seen it called an aggressive 5, but I don't think the term "aggressive" represents it well.

I have to cut this short, because I have to go to work. But I'll take more about this later.

 

[Eric B]

Read Flatlander's post why this isn't possible. It's the same reason why you'd need to Fe if you're an Fi type. You already have a preference so why would you do both? It's just counter-intuitive for your psyche. Why deal with anxiety in both a 5 and 7 way if your core type is 5? You already got a defense mechanism that works.

I figure that, but I was looking at the instinctual variants as corresponding to the three FIRO areas (Inclusion, Control and Affection; the parallel is too striking to ignore), and that would be another way to explain variation in the types.
Like how about having three of those tritype dynamics; one for each area, and you would still have the dominant variant (the one people wear next to the E number) as the area they're strongest in, and the core type? In other words, head, heart and gut would be divided between surface social skills, leadership and self preservation, and deep relationships.

 

[RaptorWizard]

This new system is poop. The original is where the goods are at. Epic super tripple-whopper go! And no, the meat doesn't all come from the same mutilated cow, and make sure your stackings don't either.

 

[Entropic]

I figure that, but I was looking at the instinctual variants as corresponding to the three FIRO areas (Inclusion, Control and Affection; the parallel is too striking to ignore), and that would be another way to explain variation in the types.
Like how about having three of those tritype dynamics; one for each area, and you would still have the dominant variant (the one people wear next to the E number) as the area they're strongest in, and the core type? In other words, head, heart and gut would be divided between surface social skills, leadership and self preservation, and deep relationships.

Reading up in this FIRO theory I can safely say there's no correlation whatsoever between the theories because FIRO deals with interpersonal behavior, instincts do not. Instincts has to do with where we project our energy in order to provide ourselves with a sense of safety. Social firsts do it by being strongly attuned to the social nature of human beings, self-preservation focus their energy on sustaining themselves and sexual firsts focus their energy on finding intimates. You can be any of these FIRO types and be any instinctual variant.

Why confuse an already good theory with a theory that tries to explain something entirely different when it's clear you don't even understand the former in depth? You can't modify something and expect great results if you don't understand what it is you are in fact modifying.

 

[Eric B]

I just saw a parallel in the names, and I realized that the variants were describing some different kind of dynamic, so I haven't really pushed a hard correlation. I just said it would be nice if they were used as separate need areas.

 

[Entropic]

I just saw a parallel in the names, ad I realized that the variants were describing some different kind of dynamic, so I haven't really pushed a hard correlation. I just said it would be nice if they were used as separate need areas.

That's not what you insuniated. Don't mess with things you don't know what you're messing with.

 

[Animal]

Personally, I could say, "Tritype is a bunch of bull" and just deal with my core. A lot of things are explained by being a type 8, and my connections to 2 and 5. It is clear that I have pride and avarice, and these are ways I deal with shame and fear. Pride feels like an integration, though.

For instance, one thing that makes me feel great about my music is *helping others* (2) to build up *their own strength* (8) by way of inspiring them through my imagination and skills (5). I was a career singer & lost my voice to a chronic illness when I was 16. Then I recorded my own album later on through my whispery voice. When someone sends me a letter like, "I'm disabled, and your music inspired me to make my own music that I've always wanted to make," this brings tears to my eyes and makes me feel pride (2). That's my line to super-ego and heart. Putting the projects together requires strategy and mastery of skills associated with "niche-hunting" of type 5. But the strongest, most ever-present drive in me is my gut, my drive, my love for controlling the whole project and ability to lead the band, my WILL, my passion for music and being in control of my destiny; type 8. It's a bonus that I now associate singing with a "triumph over adversity" which turns me on (lust) and makes me feel strong and helps me integrate cuz it gives me pride (2).

So as an 8 I have a built in mechanism for dealing with shame about losing my autonomy, my power, and my voice (2- I have pride for overcoming the adversity), and fear (the illness makes me fear that I'll lose my autonomy or I'll be broke, overpowered & controlled because I'm helpless from the illness, so I face it through mastery of skills and finding a niche).

Still, do I really need tritype? I've had some incredibly 4ish moments where I dealt with shame in a MUCH more uncomfortable way rather than an integration.

Heres a little story about my 4 fix - one time I "took on" someone else's lifestyle for a little while because he turned me on and I was in a rough period when mine was lacking - he was the best local musician and I had not done music for years because of illness. I think my lust for him drew me in- I wanted him. But in retrospect I envied, or admired, that he was living the dream and he had this whole local music scene. Back then I was anti monogamy and so was he, but he was the first guy who didnt end up on his knees begging me to commit, giving me all the power. I felt out of control and feared the emotional power he had over me, and I feared rejection, so I didnt confess or even acknowledge deeper feelings, and kept my other friends separate and kind of took over & dominated, but enlivened, his whole scene without telling anyone much about myself or my past. In a way I marched in and saved the day by taking all these musicians and learning from them and organizing until I was the driving force of the whole town, which shows because the scene fell apart when I moved to the city and started my own band. Finishing my album while they fell apart made me feel a sense of triumph, like I was the underdog but I won. In retrospect this was a disintegrated and unhealthy lust/envy/avarice combo and I can even see the whole tritype disintegrate to 5, 2 and 7 in that instance; and the vengeance at the end is 8ish but the motive is also 4ish.

But 4 is also the "inverse" of 8 according to Naranjo. He says lust is repressed envy. So is that an explanation? In my case, it could be. It all fits together neatly considering my third fix is 5.

But then what happens with core types 5 and 4? What about the fact that a 5 has a line to 7 (mind) and 8 (gut) but no heart? Does this mean a 5 has no heart, and emotion and shame doesn't play in to their personality at all? How would you say a typical 5 deals with shame? Are they all the same? Or would differences between them make sense because of tritype?

What about 4? They have a line to heart and gut, but no mind. Does this mean 4s don't think, or they don't have any anxiety? Does it mean every 4 deals with fear & thinking the exact same way? Do 4s have no fear and no mind at all? How would you explain this?

When you look at enneagram as a whole, it becomes clear that the whole thing would make less sense without tritype. Without a connection to mind/anxiety/fear, heart/emotion/shame, and gut/will/body/anger, a person just isn't whole. Tritype gives EVERYONE some presence of all of these things, and a particular way of handling it; rather than just the types that happen to have lines connecting them to all the other types.

To be specific, type 7 and 5 have no connecting line to heart, and type 2 and 4 have no connecting line to mind. So if you toss out tritype, are you prepared to explain how 7s and 5s deal with heart & shame, and how 2s and 4s deal with mind & fear? Is this universal?

As a gut type, we all have a line connecting us directly to heart and mind, so it may be easier for a gut-type to say "tritype is bullshit" - but think about the whole enneagram and whether or not that makes sense for everyone.

 

[Eric B]

That's not what you insuniated. Don't mess with things you don't know what you're messing with.

I didn't insinuate anything beyond what I said. Now you should cool it with this when you claim you're Ti dom. in MBTI and Fi dom in Jung/Socionics. (And your posts are seeming more and more genuinely T in either system).
It's all theory, and is malleable, so people can propose anything they want.

 

[Entropic]

I didn't insinuate anything beyond what I said. Now you should cool it with this when you claim you're Ti dom. in MBTI and Fi dom in Jung/Socionics. (And your posts are seeming more and more genuinely T in either system).
It's all theory, and is malleable, so people can propose anything they want.

Of course it's T, but it's Jungian Te, not Ti. And just because my posts seem T, it doesn't mean it's my dominant function. I just express myself a lot through T.

 

[Tomb1]

I disagree that this is the way to solve the tritype problem. Mostly, I don't see the system of having one type from every center as inelegant or slap-dash. In fact, when I learned about tritype, that aspect made a lot of logical sense to me. Within the centers, there are three key emotions that all humans share and ultimately have different reactions too: anger (conflict), fear/anxiety, shame (pride). I believe that the core type is the most important aspect of the Enneagram in terms of growth and personal understanding. But, there are more pieces to me besides this "fear" that rules a type 5. I accept the fact that Enneagram can't explain everything, but I can't deny there is a specific way I handle anger and conflict, and another specific way I deal with shame. And giving me the only options of 594, 582 and 513 doesn't work for me. I can accept a 9-fix, but there is no way I have a 4-fix. I have a 8-fix, but there is no way I have a 2-fix. I have a 3-fix, but there is no way I'm a 1-fixer. 4, 2, and 1 are the type I relate to the least. So this new system has no place for me, and therein lies the problem.

Now, I love to use the triads in conjunction with tritype, to understand now triadic dynamics will affect a core type. Using triads and my tritype of 538, I am what you could call a pragmatic or assertive 5, or I have even seen it called an aggressive 5, but I don't think the term "aggressive" represents it well.

I have to cut this short, because I have to go to work. But I'll take more about this later.

Great points.

the approach in the OP may have general descriptive value...but it doesn't pass muster with me as being refined enough since the fixes are contextualized in a bunch of triads that don't have do with the centers of intelligence

once you make it about choosing 1 fix from each center the "triadic spine" of it becomes the image/head/gut

 

[brainheart]

Yeah, I agree my theory has plenty of flaws. I was just puking an idea; I apologize for releasing my digestive juices on to the forum. (I should really stick to fiction writing...)

That said, I'm still not wild about tritype.