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General symptoms of an unhealthy person?

Azure Flame

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What are the signs a personality is healthy? Assuming you meet someone for the first time and you want to find out if they're emotionally healthy or not without any knowledge of enneagram, how do you tell?
 
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mintleaf

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I'm trying to derive red flags per enneagram so I can immediately judge the person as someone who would drag me down with them, a common problem in my life.

For example: I've always percieved E4's as intensely emotional, and for this reason they are fun. But I'm also starting to think that, despite how fun this may be, these emotions are caused at root by a serious problem that isn't completely understandable to me. Does that make sense? Am I right to recognize these "fantasy feelings" as a big red flag in E4's? Am I right to recognize other over exaggerations in personality behavior as unhealthy?

I don't think that E4s' intense emotions are "caused at root by a serious problem." If an unusually sensitive person doesn't know how or isn't able to take care of themselves emotionally, then it becomes a serious problem. But not all highly emotional people are unstable; it just depends on how mature they are.

I don't understand what you're looking for. Are you trying to figure out which traits and behaviors imply unhealthiness? If a person is in the grip of neurosis, it seems like you'd be able to come to that conclusion independently of Enneagram. As much as I like the system, I don't see it as a shortcut to navigating something as huge as "finding a soul mate." Of course it can be used as a guide, but there's no way to immediately judge whether you'll connect with a person based on Enneagram knowledge.

Anyway, I hope everything goes well for you. :)
 

Azure Flame

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[MENTION=17424]decrescendo[/MENTION]

Actually, I have difficulty understanding if someone is being neurotic or not because there are a lot of fucked up people in my life and I have no one to look up to as a role model outside of myself. I suppose I'd like to know the easiest way to tell if someone is healthy or not as soon as possible before my emotions get tangled up in them. I'm tired of attracting women who's lives are a complete mess without realizing it.
 

mintleaf

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[MENTION=17424]decrescendo[/MENTION]

Actually, I have difficulty understanding if someone is being neurotic or not because there are a lot of fucked up people in my life and I have no one to look up to as a role model outside of myself. I suppose I'd like to know the easiest way to tell if someone is healthy or not as soon as possible before my emotions get tangled up in them. I'm tired of picking up women who's lives are a complete mess.

I'm sorry, your questions make more sense now. I'm guessing you've already seen this, but there's some good information about health levels here.
 

Azure Flame

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I'm sorry, your questions make more sense now. I'm guessing you've already seen this, but there's some good information about health levels here.

In hindsight it seemed rather dumb of me to create the thread. Thank you! Yes, I scrolled down to E4 health level 6 and it says "Lives in a fantasy land."

Boom, that's what I was looking for. Its odd, I very much enjoy their fantasy lands, but I didn't realize they were unhealthy. Only after repeated experience did I start to realize it was true. I always felt E4's just love living in a fantasy land and I wanted to join them! haha.

I suppose my real question is quite abstract. As a 9 wing and a socionics irrational type, I often times percieve things others do not and judge things based on vibes and essenses I get from others. I'm trying to determine what sort of energy to look for when meeting someone healthy. I suspect happiness is a big part. Are there any overall general factors that would mark someone as an emotionally healthy person? No drama in their life? No complaining? etc.

What are some key signals that someone is actually healthy? I was going to say "no negativity" but I also feel as if certain personalities are negative in a healthy sense, like 1's and 6's.
 

mintleaf

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As a 9 wing and a socionics irrational type, I often times percieve things others do not and judge things based on vibes and essenses I get from others.

Dude. Me too. I've really had to work on making sure that I'm on the same page as anyone listening to me, because otherwise I would be totally incoherent.

I don't know, I think healthy E4s have fantasy lands as well, it's just that they're not dependent on them and are more likely to put this imaginative streak to productive use.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I think religion has a good paradigm for telling if someone is basically healthy.

They have good fruit in their lives.

Matthew 7:17

Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Also, God graces those who follow him and live in His spirit with good fruit.
 

Azure Flame

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I think religion has a good paradigm for telling if someone is basically healthy.

They have good fruit in their lives.

Matthew 7:17



Also, God graces those who follow him and live in His spirit with good fruit.

I should kiss you.
 

Azure Flame

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That sounds very generous of you. Thank you.

How come? :blush:

It just makes sense. Unhealthy people have bad things happen to them.

I've never gotten in trouble with the law, or anything really. Always been a rule follower (but not a respectful rule follower, lol). Nothing bad has happened in my life. I have told multiple people how nothing bad has happened because I choose to make it that way. They'll sit there and try to convince me that life sucks and my life will eventually fall apart too "just you wait". My ex used to tell me, "don't worry, something will happen to you too eventually." Just, negative fucking people all throughout my life. Its so difficult to find people who have their shit together who believe they're in control of their own destiny.

Then I think about all my best friends. Nothing bad has happened to them either. They make good grades, they're successful, they're happy, they don't drink or use drugs constantly to have fun. Its something of a rarity for me to find these people.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I think healthy people have bad things happen to them too. It's just that, over time, they produce more good things than bad, and those things are obvious to everyone.
 

Thalassa

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Usually unhealthy people attract other unhealthy people.

Of course it's not always that simple, sometimes users will hang on to an enabler who seems more outwardly stable than themselves. But if you can't create firm boundaries with people who do all taking and very little giving, then you aren't completely healthy, either.

I've noticed that whomever I'm dating is a mirror for me, like the healthier I've gotten the more stable who I am in involved with is. Of course, the appearance of "captain save-a-ho" (or mistress-save-a-playa?) doesn't mean you're healthy, it means you're exhibiting signs of needing an enabler to clean-up your own messes; usually people aren't genuinely attracted to their "captain-save-a-ho" though. If you're using someone who helps you out, but know you wouldn't be interested otherwise, you're unhealthy yourself.

HOWEVER, I believe that mildly/moderately unhealthy people can get better when surrounded by healthy, loving, strong people. Not in a romantic sense, but like family (or chosen family), a group of friends, a community of people who do yoga together or belong to the same church, that kind of thing.

Usually healthy people are aware of what their issues are, are trying to better themselves, but also aren't convinced of their own perfection or superiority (people who think they're perfect are caught up in their false image of themselves, and are probably unhealthy 1s or 3s).

And yes, 6s are at their core anxious or reactive, and 4s are inherently possessing of strong feelings, so just because you guys don't get along or aren't compatible doesn't mean they are "unhealthy"...just different.
 

Sy_

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Usually unhealthy people attract other unhealthy people.

Of course it's not always that simple, sometimes users will hang on to an enabler who seems more outwardly stable than themselves. But if you can't create firm boundaries with people who do all taking and very little giving, then you aren't completely healthy, either.

How true...
 

Sy_

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Edited...I have no idea why that double posted.
 

Entropic

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Well, I tend to tell by how much people project their shit on others. People who overreact or exaggerate a specific negative behavior often tend to be unhealthy. For example as a 5, being more withdrawn, not seeing people, starting having a reality breakdown at extremely unhealthy levels and so on, or a 4 becoming clingy as fuck as Marmotini referred to as "captain-save-a-ho". I can also vibe people's health levels in a sense that I can feel how happy/sad they are and thus judge their levels of health in such a sense.
 

Galena

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Fantasy worlds can be healthy to have, but you have to know how to get in and out and when you're needed in reality. Living in the fantasy world is the unhealthy way. You don't know that a way out exists at all.

Daydream responsibly.
 

Azure Flame

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Fantasy worlds can be healthy to have, but you have to know how to get in and out and when you're needed in reality. Living in the fantasy world is the unhealthy way. You don't know that a way out exists at all.

Daydream responsibly.

Ah. Well in the case of a couple ISFP 4's I've met, its more like they're living in a constant noir.
[MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION]

See that's the part that troubles me. I agree with what you say, however I also feel like, the better mood I am, the more unstable women cling to me to vampire my energy. Shit sucks. Some of them spit really good game so its hard to say no to them because I am legitimately attracted to them as they hide their problems from me. I don't think that makes me unhealthy necessarily.
 

Azure Flame

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I think healthy people have bad things happen to them too. It's just that, over time, they produce more good things than bad, and those things are obvious to everyone.

Right. Good people who have their shit together tend to have a "vibe" about them. A vibe of innocence.

My ex used to tell me I was too "inexperienced." I think it was a clever way of saying I made her feel like some oldhag. She had really low self esteem and self worth.
 

small.wonder

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Healthy people admit their faults and talk about how they are feeling (with those they are close to anyway). Healthy people are not clingy-- able to connect and be vulnerable, yes. Clingy and constantly needy of your attention, no. A healthy person is their own person first, they have goals, ideas, passions outside of their significant other.
 

Thalassa

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Ah. Well in the case of a couple ISFP 4's I've met, its more like they're living in a constant noir.
[MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION]

See that's the part that troubles me. I agree with what you say, however I also feel like, the better mood I am, the more unstable women cling to me to vampire my energy. Shit sucks. Some of them spit really good game so its hard to say no to them because I am legitimately attracted to them as they hide their problems from me. I don't think that makes me unhealthy necessarily.

I don't know. I can't say, I'm not there, but maybe you should examine why you think you're attracting people with "vampire" energy, whether you're playing Captain Save a Ho, or if you're even being insensitive to the feelings of your girlfriends (also not healthy). Just because someone bursts your bubble doesn't make them unhealthy. I'd have to know the context. Other people feeling sad or being offended doesn't make them unhealthy, but you being completely insensitive to it isn't very kind or loving.

On the other hand, maybe you really are attracting vampires. And maybe you should move more slowly and stop getting so quickly involved with others until you know them.

Maybe you're having sex with women you barely know too soon, and they're getting more emotionally attached than you are. Or you're even getting emotionally involved too soon, like moving too fast?

I was also wondering if you think I'm an ISFP 4, by what you said, I'm unclear on the precise reason you mentioned me.
 
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