Shame, fear, rage? Particularly shame?

[roastingmallows]

The enneagram sections of these forums are always sadly underpopulated. I can't say I'm completely shocked. MBTI is so neat and tidy and positive. It tells you "Yeah, you're different, and that's okay. You have your own strengths to bring to the table. Except sensors. You guys totally suck."

The Enneagram on the other hand says "Here's your type. Now, here's your deepest darkest secret. Get to work!"

Every enneatype has some horrible weakness that you would never want a stranger to know (and probably not anyone you know, either), and yet here we are. We all know each others' deepest character flaw. No biggie.

I'm roastingmallows and I'm a 7w6. (Hi, Roastingmallows!) I am constantly fighting back my anxiety and fear that I will never be satisfied. I feel that my activities define me. I can't control my own impulses. I rarely finish anything I start. I am average at everything and great at nothing. There you have it. Nothing to be proud of.

But it's not just 7s, oh no! It's all of us! Eh?

 

[Jaguar]

I am average at everything and great at nothing. There you have it. Nothing to be proud of.

Do something about it.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I don't have shame issues.

But I imagine they really suck.

 

[roastingmallows]

Do something about it.

Hmm maybe. I just have to pick a skill to go all the way with...

 

[roastingmallows]

I don't have shame issues.

But I imagine they really suck.

I don't really have shame issues either. Mostly fear for me, and then shame for feeling said fear. XD Any idea what your enneatype is?

I mentioned shame in particular because there are so many 4s on here, and supposedly the 2s 3s and 4s are supposed to have this underlying shame. (Like the 5 6 7 have fear) I can imagine I would feel a lot of shame for being a 234, particularly a 4, because a 4s main desire is to be unique, yet in their quest to be unique they often lose themselves. 4s want to BE unique, and the fact that they have to strive for it at all is an uncomfortable truth, I imagine.

I feel fear because my desire as a 7 is to be stimulated, but I fear stimulation is a shallow desire to have and my life may be meaningless.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Oh. It seems like shame was a big part of this thread....

There is no shame in feeling shame you know. Many do.

 

[garbage]

Totally resonates with me, @roastingmarshmallows. The Enneagram suits my purposes a lil' bit better because of that.

I'll say one thing--it's easier to not feel shame, fear, and rage if you don't bother to dig deep and apply a bit of psychological muscle.

The Enneagram on the other hand says "Here's your type. Now, here's your deepest darkest secret. Get to work!"

This is the most direct and eloquent way that I've ever seen this phrased.

Welcome

 

[roastingmallows]

Totally resonates with me, @roastingmarshmallows. The Enneagram suits my purposes a lil' bit better because of that.

I'll say one thing--it's easier to not feel shame, fear, and rage if you don't bother to dig deep and apply a bit of psychological muscle.

This is the most direct and eloquent way that I've ever seen this phrased.

Welcome

Why, thank you! I always imagine it would be hardest on the heart types in a way, 3s included. I have a deep suspicion that my mom is a 3(w2) (also sp/so), but when I try and get her to take enneagram tests, she straight up denies having 3 qualities. I think she is particularly delusional about how attached she is to appearing successful...It seems like it would be hard to admit to being an "image" type because you would have to actively admit to TRYING, and caring what other people think and not necessarily just having everything come naturally to you.

Have you ever felt that way? Ashamed of trying and caring? Do you like people to know how much you care, or do you like people to think it comes naturally? Or am I totally off the mark here?

I know as a 7, I like people to think I'm naturally good at things, but if I'm proven wrong, I will just never try again.

 

[garbage]

Why, thank you! I always imagine it would be hardest on the heart types in a way, 3s included. I have a deep suspicion that my mom is a 3(w2) (also sp/so), but when I try and get her to take enneagram tests, she straight up denies having 3 qualities. I think she is particularly delusional about how attached she is to appearing successful...It seems like it would be hard to admit to being an "image" type because you would have to actively admit to TRYING, and caring what other people think and not necessarily just having everything come naturally to you.

Have you ever felt that way? Ashamed of trying and caring? Do you like people to know how much you care, or do you like people to think it comes naturally? Or am I totally off the mark here?

I know as a 7, I like people to think I'm naturally good at things, but if I'm proven wrong, I will just never try again.

I can see where the image-types might have a difficult time; it's related to the notion that, as we know, it's difficult to drag a narcissist into therapy because their narcissism gets in the way. But I think many, regardless of type, would not recognize their own particular brand of weakness/bias--the descriptions themselves aren't exactly pleasant (which is a good thing), and viewing the world from our particular lens is all they know (the "doesn't everyone think this way?" phenomenon). Perhaps the more outwardly-focused types (your 1s, 3s, 8s, ...) might have the most difficult time--I'm not entirely sure.

It's almost always impressive to feel that you can pull things off with no effort at all--it signifies natural or learned talent and the capacity to do even more if effort was actually invested. It's also always impressive to win battles, and it's easier to win battles that you know you can fight. For some, that feeling is internally motivated; for others, they need to give the impression because they are sensitive (for good and for bad) to feedback from the outside world, as if the outside world is always holding a mirror up to them.

Owning up to weaknesses in character is fraught with anxiety--it's one of those battles that we might not take on if we know we can't win, so it can be easier to avoid it. Playing to strengths and practicing what we already know can be a very good thing, though; the difference is all about the underlying motivation.

Those are natural tendencies--the healthy motivations and the unhealthy ones--and I know that I've experienced them both. I've also experienced only a little bit of rage (more frustration at something--the world or myself--not 'keeping up the pace'), a middling amount of fear, and a generous amount of shame.

 

[Coriolis]

The enneagram sections of these forums are always sadly underpopulated. I can't say I'm completely shocked. MBTI is so neat and tidy and positive. It tells you "Yeah, you're different, and that's okay. You have your own strengths to bring to the table. Except sensors. You guys totally suck."

Yes, MBTI is very easy to absorb, conceptually. I find it more useful in understanding the way things (people) are, rather than how to improve. Enneagram has the advantage of highlighting our weaknesses (though honest MBTI descriptions will do the same), but is still frustrating because it offers precioius little advice on how one should proceed in addressing them.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Yes, MBTI is very easy to absorb, conceptually. I find it more useful in understanding the way things (people) are, rather than how to improve. Enneagram has the advantage of highlighting our weaknesses (though honest MBTI descriptions will do the same), but is still frustrating because it offers precioius little advice on how one should proceed in addressing them.

Yes. MBTI is more "here's what's awesome about you!! and oh a couple of negative things but it's ok because you're awesome!!" And Egram is like "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL you have some major issues. Good luck with that."

 

[kyuuei]

Aww, bologna made a friend.

Heyo there Roast!

 

[iNtrovert]

Yea there is nothing like dealing with the fact I am responsible for a lot of my own unhappiness.

 

[mcgooglian]

I'm a big, angry 9w8 and I'm awesome.

 

[Title]

Not sure how it manifests in other types. But I'm a 4w3 and it's just about impossible for me to not think about how I'm coming off to other people, and I beat myself up if I come across the wrong way. For me, the shame manifests in, "If I'm not different, there's nothing worthwhile about me" and "If I don't succeed in a notable way and people don't look up to me, what's the point in trying?" And I have a flashy side for sure, but when I act very goofy and out-there with my friends, I feel ashamed because it feels inauthentic. Gee, I'll tell you, being a 4 sucks sometimes. But I like the artistic stereotypes. I've always wanted to be admired for my creativity.

tl;dr Being a 4 is equally suckish and magnificent.

 

[Coriolis]

Not sure how it manifests in other types. But I'm a 4w3 and it's just about impossible for me to not think about how I'm coming off to other people, and I beat myself up if I come across the wrong way. For me, the shame manifests in, "If I'm not different, there's nothing worthwhile about me" and "If I don't succeed in a notable way and people don't look up to me, what's the point in trying?" And I have a flashy side for sure, but when I act very goofy and out-there with my friends, I feel ashamed because it feels inauthentic. Gee, I'll tell you, being a 4 sucks sometimes. But I like the artistic stereotypes. I've always wanted to be admired for my creativity.

tl;dr Being a 4 is equally suckish and magnificent.

Well, I'm 5w6, and I really don't care how I come off to other people; at least not for its own sake. I know I don't care, and I know that can cause problems, but I don't care about that, either. Except when I have to care because making someone upset will be counterproductive. It might confuse them, generate needless emotionalism, or worst, cause them to resist cooperating, making it hard to get something done. So I care in this sense, but even then, acting on it I feel fake, like I am betraying something in my core being. (Convoluted, isn't it?)

 

[roastingmallows]

Yes, MBTI is very easy to absorb, conceptually. I find it more useful in understanding the way things (people) are, rather than how to improve. Enneagram has the advantage of highlighting our weaknesses (though honest MBTI descriptions will do the same), but is still frustrating because it offers precioius little advice on how one should proceed in addressing them.

I suppose the real purpose of the enneagram is to become aware of your personality so you can stop identifying so much with it. The goal is to lose the ego and achieve unity with yourself and the universe, or something along those lines. That is not an easy task, especially for us type enthusiasts who would rather embrace our flaws to a certain extent because it makes us feel unique or something. XD It's too easy to say "well, I'm a 7 so I guess it makes sense that I'm never going to finish anything I start." instead of using the enneagram for its intended purpose of letting go of your personality since it is essentially blocking you from knowing your true essence. The personality is just a filter; a mask; a sense of security. As for how to actually going about doing that...I suppose you're right. Most of the literature isn't terribly specific about that.

So what is your relationship with fear, as a 5w6? 7 and 6 are obvious examples of head types and fear. 7s try to avoid their anxiety and 6s fixate on it. But what abot 5s? I can't begin to guess.

 

[roastingmallows]

Aww, bologna made a friend.

Heyo there Roast!

Well, hello! Any RAGE issues I should know about?

 

[roastingmallows]

I'm a big, angry 9w8 and I'm awesome.

But fo real! 9s are the most baffling of all. Is the anger really there? Do they just ignore it as much as possible until the breaking point? Are they repressing it? I understand the whole 8 and 1 anger thing, but 9s...I haven't the slightest idea. 9s are the chillest mofos.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

So how am I supposed to read, or use, enneagram to help me grow, etc.?