If had the option of being whatever type you wanted

[Santosha]

my thoughts exactly (though the rest of your post perplexes me lol)

lol, why?

 

[Elfboy]

lol, why?

because my reason for living is to get as much for myself as possible. I want to enjoy my life as much as I possibly can, so I don't understand when people tout things like "selflessness" as a virtue. helping others is great, don't get me wrong, but don't you deserve to turn some of that helping and caring toward yourself as well? how can you be happy without getting anything for yourself? moral/spiritual generosity and enlightenment probably feel pretty good, but let's face it, the most primitive desires of human beings, like comfort, safety, sex, survival, longevity etc were there long before our ancestors even began walking upright. when one takes this into consideration, how is being happy even possible if one doesn't invest substantially in themselves to get what they want in the external world? I think it's a common trend these days for people to view their circumstances and negligible to their overall fulfillment in life. given the above reasons, I don't believe this to be the case. that's why they call it health, wealth and relationships and not just relationships

 

[Santosha]

my reason for living so that I can get as much for myself as possible. I want to enjoy my life as much as I possibly can, so I don't understand when people tout things like "selflessness" as a virtue. helping others is great, don't get me wrong, but don't you deserve to turn some of that helping and caring toward yourself as well?

What if you could completely fulfill yourself by giving love to others? What if you didn't need anything else. I just look at it this way.. If being stuck in the human condition I must hold an attachment, I would prefer that attachment to be for love. I hold love, and love for other people and myself in higher regard than I do being right, successful, different/original, intelligent, inquisitive, fun or powerful. This leaves 2 and 9, and you can see my previous mentioned concern about 9. It sounds judgey, as though the 2 is somehow superior or more spiritually evolved.. and I totally don't believe this to be true, because from the 2's perspective they are still operating on behalf of themself, seeking to fulfill a need (of fear of unworthiness or whatever).. but I think that if the fixation itself was directed into its highest levels, it may be the most condusive for large-scale progression. Just maybe. Arguments could be made for other types as well, and so this is entirely based on my own value system =D

 

[Elfboy]

What if you could completely fulfill yourself by giving love to others? What if you didn't need anything else. I just look at it this way.. If being stuck in the human condition I must hold an attachment, I would prefer that attachment to be for love. I hold love, and love for other people and myself in higher regard than I do being right, successful, different/original, intelligent, inquisitive, fun or powerful. This leaves 2 and 9, and you can see my previous mentioned concern about 9. It sounds judgey, as though the 2 is somehow superior or more spiritually evolved.. and I totally don't believe this to be true, because from the 2's perspective they are still operating on behalf of themself, seeking to fulfill a need (of fear of unworthiness or whatever).. but I think that if the fixation itself was directed into its highest levels, it may be the most condusive for large-scale progression. Just maybe. Arguments could be made for other types as well, and so this is entirely based on my own value system =D

it's impossible. this is exactly my point. they call it health, wealth and relationships and not just relationships because they are all fundamental needs of fulfillment. it is not possible to live 100% vicariously through others (even if you were an ENFJ 2w1 So/Sx). at the very least, I'm sure you can understand that you need to keep yourself alive long enough to be fulfilled for more than a few months. the mind is biologically designed to seek and enjoy pleasure and to fear, avoid and dislike pain. no amount of generosity and altruism is going to change this. people who think they are are deluding themselves.

 

[Santosha]

The problem is that your not looking at 2's in the highest levels. Your looking at 2's in some kind of unhealthy, parasitic level. 2's at a level 1 on the spectrum, according to Riso and Hudson, are among the most radiant human beings one can hope to find in life. They have transcended their need for others to love them, they have learned how to unconditionally nurture themselves while being the most altruistic and unselfish of all the types. They have no hidden self-interest, their actions are purely directed at the good of others with no ulterior motives.

it's impossible

And I thought you were an ENFP

 

[Kierva]

And I thought you were an ENFP

It's not that he isn't, it's just that he's the self-absorbed kind. I think it's his way of not letting people fuck up his life.

I don't really think it's a bad thing because I think that your only obligation is to yourself.

 

[skylights]

because my reason for living is to get as much for myself as possible. I want to enjoy my life as much as I possibly can, so I don't understand when people tout things like "selflessness" as a virtue. helping others is great, don't get me wrong, but don't you deserve to turn some of that helping and caring toward yourself as well? how can you be happy without getting anything for yourself? moral/spiritual generosity and enlightenment probably feel pretty good, but let's face it, the most primitive desires of human beings, like comfort, safety, sex, survival, longevity etc were there long before our ancestors even began walking upright. when one takes this into consideration, how is being happy even possible if one doesn't invest substantially in themselves to get what they want in the external world? I think it's a common trend these days for people to view their circumstances and negligible to their overall fulfillment in life. given the above reasons, I don't believe this to be the case. that's why they call it health, wealth and relationships and not just relationships

I totally agree with you that all humans seek those primitive desires, but I think you have a very individual way of looking at how best to obtain those desires - and I think that's really what the Enneagram is all about - the methods we use - our primary "drives". We all seek comfort, safety, and happiness on a very basic level, but our enneatype describes what facet of a "good life" we prioritize.

For me, reading your paragraph is funny, because I've never been strongly self-driven, and I'm often happier when fulfilling someone else's needs - because others' needs seem easier to me. A lot of times, I'm stuck at the conceptual level of figuring out my viewpoint of the world, which makes it hard for me to be really invested in self-directed action. However, many others - you, my boyfriend, my best friend, etc. - are very well aware of what you want, and since I can't decide on my own agenda, it can give me more lasting satisfaction to help you with yours.

Also, as someone who is very sp-last, I just don't put much cognitive effort into health and wealth and material security things. They seem fairly negligible to me... as far as I can tell, I'm pretty equally happy living out of a tiny dorm room as I am in a big, spacious house, as long as my mental and social needs are being fulfilled. I mean, sure, I appreciate good food when it comes along, but in the meanwhile some rice is delicious too. A dollar or two extra on my wages, eh, I mean, it'd be great, but I'd probably be about as equally happy as I am now.

So... yeah... that's kind of the run-down on what it feels like to just not be very personally motivated. I'm sure for someone who knows exactly what they want and who is very impacted by comfort level, it's kind of baffling, but to me it's just the way life has always been.

 

[Santosha]

It's not that he isn't....

Oh I know, I was just flippen him shit =P
For being a theoretical "what type would ya be" thread, it seemed as though he got a bit touchy, driving it down to more tangible, physical laws (brain wiring) when his value of self-fullfilment was challenged.

I don't entirely disagree with what your saying EB, I just thought we were toying with possibilities xD

 

[Elfboy]

The problem is that your not looking at 2's in the highest levels. Your looking at 2's in some kind of unhealthy, parasitic level. 2's at a level 1 on the spectrum, according to Riso and Hudson, are among the most radiant human beings one can hope to find in life. They have transcended their need for others to love them, they have learned how to unconditionally nurture themselves while being the most altruistic and unselfish of all the types. They have no hidden self-interest, their actions are purely directed at the good of others with no ulterior motives.

And I thought you were an ENFP

And I thought you used Fi>Fe
also, I'm not looking at healthy 2s are parasitic. in fact, I'm not even talking about 2s anymore to be honesy. what I'm saying is that life is like a recipe. you have to have all the ingredients to get the best one possible. living a truly altruistic life is like making the recipe while leaving out some of the most essential ingredients.


[MENTION=11928]Uwace[/MENTION]
hahaha precisely (EIE probably has something to do with it too lol)

 

[Elfboy]

I totally agree with you that all humans seek those primitive desires, but I think you have a very individual way of looking at how best to obtain those desires - and I think that's really what the Enneagram is all about - the methods we use - our primary "drives". We all seek comfort, safety, and happiness on a very basic level, but our enneatype describes what facet of a "good life" we prioritize.

For me, reading your paragraph is funny, because I've never been strongly self-driven, and I'm often happier when fulfilling someone else's needs - because others' needs seem easier to me. A lot of times, I'm stuck at the conceptual level of figuring out my viewpoint of the world, which makes it hard for me to be really invested in self-directed action. However, many others - you, my boyfriend, my best friend, etc. - are very well aware of what you want, and since I can't decide on my own agenda, it can give me more lasting satisfaction to help you with yours.

Also, as someone who is very sp-last, I just don't put much cognitive effort into health and wealth and material security things. They seem fairly negligible to me... as far as I can tell, I'm pretty equally happy living out of a tiny dorm room as I am in a big, spacious house, as long as my mental and social needs are being fulfilled. I mean, sure, I appreciate good food when it comes along, but in the meanwhile some rice is delicious too. A dollar or two extra on my wages, eh, I mean, it'd be great, but I'd probably be about as equally happy as I am now.

So... yeah... that's kind of the run-down on what it feels like to just not be very personally motivated. I'm sure for someone who knows exactly what they want and who is very impacted by comfort level, it's kind of baffling, but to me it's just the way life has always been.

you have a good point. even for someone like me, helping others is "easier". when you help others, people are satisfied with a small amount and tend to think "it's the thought that counts"; when you are helping yourself, results become much more important.
PS: it also has to do with 7 vs 6. 6 is a superego type; 7 is an Id type

 

[RaptorWizard]

I pick type 0 because I want to witness the birth of our civilization from a type 0 who is confined to terrestrial matters to a type 1 who can use the whole inexhaustible energies of Earth and beyond!

 

[Such Irony]

I think I would choose 7w8 too, they seem to have so much fun. 9w8 might be a close second. And for instinctual variant, I think I would prefer sp/sx.

I agree with 7w8 and sp/sx variant. I'm not sure about wanting to be 9w8. I want a type that's not so passive and conflict avoidant. I already struggle with that sort of thing.

 

[Haven]

I picked my own type. Being 2w3 is awesome, you don't know what you're missing. If I was going to change anything, it would be my stacking.

 

[Kierva]

Answering to the topic, I'd probably want to be a phobic 6 (with a supporting family to match) or a keep-it-together 3 that has everything going for him.

 

[chickpea]

8w7 so i could be tougher and more badass and get into lots of fights.
or 2w3 so i could be nicer and more ladylike.
basically one way in either direction, because i'm too stuck in the middle now.

 

[Elfboy]

8w7 so i could be tougher and more badass and get into lots of fights.
or 2w3 so i could be nicer and more ladylike.
basically one way in either direction, because i'm too stuck in the middle now.

you're 8w7 enough as it is lol

 

[chickpea]

you're 8w7 enough as it is lol

the internet is not real life

 

[Elfboy]

the internet is not real life

in that case, you're cp6w7 enough as it is lol

 

[chickpea]

in that case, you're cp6w7 enough as it is lol

how lucky am i to have an enneagram expert here to tell me about myself???

 

[prplchknz]

I don't know my type to begin with people have said either 4 or 9.