What's Better - Enneagram Wings or Tritype?

[Thunderbringer]

Well first of all, motivation is a bad word to use to describe what the enneagram does. I used it before, but animegai said it best: it's the lens through which we see the world in. All 9 types' "motivations" can be experienced by everyone, and I'd be surprised if no one experienced more than one (and even more than 3) of those "motivations" in their lifetime. As a 6, I've had a desire to be right/perfect in certain situations, to be loved, to be successful, to be unique, etc., but my energy in all of these situations stemmed from feelings of being insecure and unsure of myself - the very essence of a 6. When you talk about your friend's motivations, what exactly do you mean?

Secondly, the way tritypes work is that when your primary core fixation doesn't work in a situation, you supposedly jump to your secondary core fixation and try to use that to fix the problem. If that doesn't work, then you finally jump to your third fixation to solve the situation. Contrary to how many people view the tritypes, it isn't just your top fixation from each triad, but rather, how you act when you get stressed out. If you notice above, David468 is one of the co-founders of the tritype and if you see his videos, you won't even see a trace of 8 in him. I remember a member of this site (I think it was Elfboy) saying that s/he asked David about why he was a 468 and not a 469, which would be more apt for him, and him replying that the 8 in his tritype only comes out when he is very stressed out. As you can tell, this obviously isn't verbatim, but this was what was essentially said (from what I remember).

Now, where I'm going with this is that it's impossible for your friend to display both fixations (if that is what you meant) unless he was a very high strung individual who couldn't relax in any moment. It might seem like he's a 1 and 5 because both are in the competency triad, but otherwise, both of you may probably not be typing him correctly. It could also be that both of you are just analyzing the motivations, such as 1's having a desire for perfection and a 5 wanting to be competent, which are motivations anyone could simultaneously have, instead of thinking about his fixation.

 

[Viridian]

Well first of all, motivation is a bad word to use to describe what the enneagram does. I used it before, but animegai said it best: it's the lens through which we see the world in. All 9 types' "motivations" can be experienced by everyone, and I'd be surprised if no one experienced more than one (and even more than 3) of those "motivations" in their lifetime. As a 6, I've had a desire to be right/perfect in certain situations, to be loved, to be successful, to be unique, etc., but my energy in all of these situations stemmed from feelings of being insecure and unsure of myself - the very essence of a 6. When you talk about your friend's motivations, what exactly do you mean?

Pardon me if I'm nitpicking, but aren't all the types' motivations based on "insecurity" about some aspect or other of themselves? Like, for instance, the 5's constant attempts to understand the world around hir in order to feel secure through their knowledge?

 

[Thunderbringer]

Pardon me if I'm nitpicking, but aren't all the types' motivations based on "insecurity" about some aspect or other of themselves? Like, for instance, the 5's constant attempts to understand the world around hir in order to feel secure through their knowledge?

Pretty much. I guess I should've explained what I said more in-depth, but hopefully people get what I'm saying.

 

[Viridian]

Pretty much. I guess I should've explained what I said more in-depth, but hopefully people get what I'm saying.

Hmmm... On that topic, how would you describe the 6 fixation, from that POV? An "insecurity about security"?

 

[Thunderbringer]

Hmmm... On that topic, how would you describe the 6 fixation, from that POV? An "insecurity about security"?

I don't get what you're saying. Since I was talking about myself, let me just explain it in that way. I personally have little faith in myself in a lot of things, so I rely on other outside sources to make me feel more at ease. When I analyze myself, I'm able to see that this line of thinking controls everything I do.

 

[Viridian]

I don't get what you're saying. Since I was talking about myself, let me just explain it in that way. I personally have little faith in myself in a lot of things, so I rely on other outside sources to make me feel more at ease. When I analyze myself, I'm able to see that this line of thinking controls everything I do.

By "POV", I meant the idea of "Enneatype as insecurity about some aspect of yourself" I mentioned. In a way, my phrase played with the different senses of the word "security".

 

[Thunderbringer]

By "POV", I meant the idea of "Enneatype as insecurity about some aspect of yourself" I mentioned. In a way, my phrase played with the different senses of the word "security".

Lemme see if I can rephrase what you're saying. Are you asking, "On that topic, how would you describe the 6 fixation, from the idea of "Enneatype as insecurity about some aspect of yourself"?"

If that's the case, then it's exactly like I said. Sixes are afraid/insecure of themselves/their thinking (an aspect of themselves), so they rely on outside sources (gaining knowledge from reading, researching, family, friends, etc.) in order to feel secure about themselves.

 

[Hazashin]

Well first of all...

I didn't notice this at first because I didn't get any notification for you having not quoted me.

Anyway, how do you suggest we resolve this? What's the best way to figure it out?

 

[Viridian]

Lemme see if I can rephrase what you're saying. Are you asking, "On that topic, how would you describe the 6 fixation, from the idea of "Enneatype as insecurity about some aspect of yourself"?"

If that's the case, then it's exactly like I said. Sixes are afraid/insecure of themselves/their thinking (an aspect of themselves), so they rely on outside sources (gaining knowledge from reading, researching, family, friends, etc.) in order to feel secure about themselves.

Ah, okay. That clarifies it, I think.

 

[Thunderbringer]

I didn't notice this at first because I didn't get any notification for you having not quoted me.

Anyway, how do you suggest we resolve this? What's the best way to figure it out?

There's probably a myriad of ways to find out what type he is, and I have no idea what any of them would be. The way I figured out my type from a 6 and a 4 is as I've said many times before, I analyzed the reason for my actions and realized they stemmed from insecurity from my thoughts rather than from a fear of not being special/unique or wanting to understand myself better.

 

[highlander]

As a 6, I've had a desire to be right/perfect in certain situations, to be loved, to be successful, to be unique, etc., but my energy in all of these situations stemmed from feelings of being insecure and unsure of myself - the very essence of a 6.

So, I bought this Naranjo book referenced earlier and started to read a little of it. He says that the MBTI type most closely aligned with 6 is ENTJ.

If anyone had told me a couple of years ago that anxiety, fear or being unsure of my thinking was a core motivation, I would have said they were nuts. It's why I had never even considered 6. I think we go through life somewhat oblivious of these things unless somehow they are brought to our attention. Think of a 9 for example.

As I think about it further, a great deal of my life has been focused on building these layers of security - financial, relational or otherwise. Even personality type is interesting to me because it helps to provide a bit more certainty about things.

Also, I am in the Information Security field. How about that.

 

[highlander]

I mean, whatever. All of this typology stuff is necessarily unscientific and impossible to prove one way or the other, so if you've found tritypes better account for behavior, then there you go.

I've found Enneagram and MBTI to provide useful frameworks for discussing human behavior, but it's important to remember that all frameworks are only frameworks. If they accounted for everything, they'd just be "reality" and would be useless since they don't simplify anything. My opinion is that tritypes add too many layers of complexity so that the system becomes cumbersome and inelegant.

Are you an INTP?

 

[ygolo]

The statement that "all models are wrong, but some are useful" comes to mind.

 

[Mal12345]

Yes, it's because more and more of the site's members have gone through the individuation process and have found their true, ideal selves (ENTPs).



This is the same question that I've been asking myself. If we can assume that we've got one and only one fixation and that that one fixation does explain one's thought patterns, then it makes sense to delve deep into that one fixation. Otherwise, not so much.

If an 8 has a connection to 5, tritype offers an explanation (whether or not it's a good one);

Tritypes offers no explanation, just a theory and a formula. Did you mean to say "theory"?

 

[Mal12345]

Ok, its theory explains why typing people with the enneagram is so confusing sometimes. And in this it is no different from the ANSIR which has three similar categories: its Emoting, Working, and Thinking correlate well with the three ennea-triads or centers.

But there have been similar explanations offered, and none of them seem to be the correct one, or all of them are correct. It's arbitrary. A 5w6 who acts like a type 1: well, that's just "resonance." Same with the 5w4 "resonating" with 9 because they happen to lie on opposite sides of the enneagram.

 

[garbage]

Was it so informative that it made you rethink the validity of tritypes?

It makes me think that there may be enough there to justify the ordering of the types, in a way that we can point to and say--'okay, I can see that making sense.'

It's difficult for me to think of universal 'validity' of the tritypes. I am quite sure that 6 is my main fixation, that '5-ness' colors (and Naranjo clarifies to some extent why this may be), and that I often have motivations, behaviors, and thought patterns similar to a 3's. For me, it's difficult to see where any particular 'gut' type plays into the mix, and to introduce a gut type may cloud things more than it's worth.

The only thing I can say universally is that understanding the core type presents the most 'bang for your buck,' so to speak.

Now, where I'm going with this is that it's impossible for your friend to display both fixations (if that is what you meant) unless he was a very high strung individual who couldn't relax in any moment. It might seem like he's a 1 and 5 because both are in the competency triad, but otherwise, both of you may probably not be typing him correctly. It could also be that both of you are just analyzing the motivations, such as 1's having a desire for perfection and a 5 wanting to be competent, which are motivations anyone could simultaneously have, instead of thinking about his fixation.

What's interesting is that Naranjo's book explains type 1 and then explains type 5, in that order, and actually delves into some of the similarities (and differences) between them--mostly in the notion that both are driven and demanding, and that the 1 is externally perfectionistic whereas the 5 is internally perfectionistic.

In general, many of his type explanations hint at how some types may appear similar to certain others.

Overall, yeah, I think that I should have picked this book up earlier.

I don't get what you're saying. Since I was talking about myself, let me just explain it in that way. I personally have little faith in myself in a lot of things, so I rely on other outside sources to make me feel more at ease. When I analyze myself, I'm able to see that this line of thinking controls everything I do.

Same. As a 6, I regard there as being very little stability in general, especially internally. I wind up believing that it would be easier to find some external standards (that have already, apparently, stood the test of time) to cling to, but then I also end up doubting those and turning them over on their heads as well. Naranjo states that the 6 seeks problems, especially in himself, as a way to feel safe.

Tritypes offers no explanation, just a theory and a formula. Did you mean to say "theory"?

Yup, thanks.

The statement that "all models are wrong, but some are useful" comes to mind.

This is another one of those statements that continually needs to be shouted from the rooftops on these forums.

 

[Thunderbringer]

It seems I may have to check out this book. I got The Wisdom of the Enneagram a couple of years ago, but it pretty much just went over what you could easily find online. I'm curious as to how someone would think an ENTJ would be the most closely aligned with 6, since you'd think it'd be more representative of a 3 or 8.

 

[highlander]

It seems I may have to check out this book. I got The Wisdom of the Enneagram a couple of years ago, but it pretty much just went over what you could easily find online. I'm curious as to how someone would think an ENTJ would be the most closely aligned with 6, since you'd think it'd be more representative of a 3 or 8.

He said it's the counter-phobic aspect which sort of looks like 8.

 

[Thunderbringer]

He said it's the counter-phobic aspect which sort of looks like 8.

That makes sense.

 

[SingSmileShine]

I find that combining them works!

For instance, I'm 7w6-3w2-8w7.