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Enneatypes with lots of Enneatype-Instinct Variant dissonance

Elfboy

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5w4
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sx/sp
haha wow, my deepest apologies for suggesting you read a book on a subject you're interested in but grossly misinformed about. i understand what you're trying to say you're just.. wrong. i said to read a book because i have one (wisdom of the enneagram) that describes how the instinct variants blend with each enneagram type. but you're the expert i guess hahaaa

I am not wrong, they blend mostly, but sometimes they want different things. they are not always in agreement with each other. So wants to blend in with the group, but an So 4 is going to be more tentative about blending in because they don't want to loose their identity. I don't need to be an expert on the enneagram to know that, nor do I claim to be. it's a simple concept and common sense to anyone who knows even a little bit about it.
 

Elfboy

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sx/sp
Yes, I understood that from your original post, but that is only true on a superficial level. Like chana pointed out, type and instinct blend.

I was pointing out a superficial correlation deliberately. like I said, I'm intelligent enough to know it's more complicated than that.
 

Catharsis

New member
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Messages
84
MBTI Type
INFP
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5w4
I am not wrong, they blend mostly, but sometimes they want different things. they are not always in agreement with each other. So wants to blend in with the group, but an So 4 is going to be more tentative about blending in because they don't want to loose their identity. I don't need to be an expert on the enneagram to know that, nor do I claim to be. it's a simple concept and common sense to anyone who knows even a little bit about it.
Social instinct is about pushing your energy toward the social sphere and a deep need of belonging. It isn't about conformity, thus it doesn't really interfere with type 4's fear of losing their identity.
 

Elfboy

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sx/sp
Social instinct is about pushing your energy toward the social sphere and a deep need of belonging. It isn't about conformity, thus it doesn't really interfere with type 4's fear of losing their identity.

it does if belonging pressures them to act or believe the same things as those in the group, which isn't always the case, but it's very common
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
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Oct 20, 2008
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5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
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6w7
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sx/sp
It's meaningful, I think, to look at what variant of each type is the most current and wich one is the rarest.

The most current variety of 1 is 1w9 So/Sp, the rarest are 1w2 Sx/Sp and 1w2 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 2 is 2w3 So/Sx, the rarest is 2w1 Sx/Sp.

The most current variety of 3 is 3w2 So/Sp, the rarest is 3w2 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 4 is 4w3 So/Sx, the rarest is 4w5 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 5 is 5w6 Sp/So, the rarest is 5w4 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 6 is 6w5 Sp/So, the rarest is 6w5 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 7 is 7w6 So/Sx, the rarest is 7w8 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 8 is 8w9 Sp/So, the rarest is 8w7 Sx/Sp.

The most current variety of 9 is 9w8 So/Sx, the rarest is 9w8 Sx/So.

With wings:

The most current variety of 1w9 is 1w9 So/Sp, the rarest is 1w9 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 1w2 is 1w2 So/Sp, the rarest are 1w2 Sx/Sp and 1w2 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 2w1 is 2w1 So/Sx, the rarest is 2w1 Sx/Sp.

The most current variety of 2w3 is 2w3 So/Sx, the rarest is 2w3 Sp/Sx.

The most current variety of 3w2 is 3w2 So/Sp, the rarest is 3w2 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 3w4 is 3w4 Sp/Sx, the rarest is 3w4 Sp/So

The most current variety of 4w3 is 4w3 So/Sx, the rarest is 4w3 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 4w5 is 4w5 Sp/Sx, the rarest is 4w5 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 5w4 is 5w4 Sp/Sx, the rarest is 5w4 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 5w6 is 5w6 Sp/So, the rarest are 5w6 So/Sx and 5w6 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 6w5 is 6w5 Sp/So, the rarest is 6w5 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 6w7 is 6w7 So/Sx, the rarest is 6w7 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 7w6 is 7w6 So/Sx, the rarest is 7w6 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 7w8 is 7w8 So/Sx, the rarest is 7w8 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 8w7 is 8w7 Sp/So, the rarest is 8w7 Sx/Sp.

The most current variety of 8w9 is 8w9 Sp/So, the rarest is 8w9 So/Sx.

The most current variety of 9w8 is 9w8 So/Sx, the rarest is 9w8 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 9w1 is 9w1 Sp/So, the rarest are 9w1So/Sx and 9w1 Sx/Sp.
 

Catharsis

New member
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Jul 29, 2011
Messages
84
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
It's meaningful, I think, to look at what variant of each type is the most current and wich one is the rarest.

The most current variety of 1 is 1w9 So/Sp, the rarest are 1w2 Sx/Sp and 1w2 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 2 is 2w3 So/Sx, the rarest is 2w1 Sx/Sp.

The most current variety of 3 is 3w2 So/Sp, the rarest is 3w2 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 4 is 4w3 So/Sx, the rarest is 4w5 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 5 is 5w6 Sp/So, the rarest is 5w4 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 6 is 6w5 Sp/So, the rarest is 6w5 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 7 is 7w6 So/Sx, the rarest is 7w8 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 8 is 8w9 Sp/So, the rarest is 8w7 Sx/Sp.

The most current variety of 9 is 9w8 So/Sx, the rarest is 9w8 Sx/So.

With wings:

The most current variety of 1w9 is 1w9 So/Sp, the rarest is 1w9 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 1w2 is 1w2 So/Sp, the rarest are 1w2 Sx/Sp and 1w2 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 2w1 is 2w1 So/Sx, the rarest is 2w1 Sx/Sp.

The most current variety of 2w3 is 2w3 So/Sx, the rarest is 2w3 Sp/Sx.

The most current variety of 3w2 is 3w2 So/Sp, the rarest is 3w2 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 3w4 is 3w4 Sp/Sx, the rarest is 3w4 Sp/So

The most current variety of 4w3 is 4w3 So/Sx, the rarest is 4w3 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 4w5 is 4w5 Sp/Sx, the rarest is 4w5 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 5w4 is 5w4 Sp/Sx, the rarest is 5w4 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 5w6 is 5w6 Sp/So, the rarest are 5w6 So/Sx and 5w6 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 6w5 is 6w5 Sp/So, the rarest is 6w5 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 6w7 is 6w7 So/Sx, the rarest is 6w7 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 7w6 is 7w6 So/Sx, the rarest is 7w6 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 7w8 is 7w8 So/Sx, the rarest is 7w8 Sp/So.

The most current variety of 8w7 is 8w7 Sp/So, the rarest is 8w7 Sx/Sp.

The most current variety of 8w9 is 8w9 Sp/So, the rarest is 8w9 So/Sx.

The most current variety of 9w8 is 9w8 So/Sx, the rarest is 9w8 Sx/So.

The most current variety of 9w1 is 9w1 Sp/So, the rarest are 9w1So/Sx and 9w1 Sx/Sp.
Is this based on this list?
http://pastebin.com/gsAhzZqW
 

Elfboy

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The most current variety of 8w9 is 8w9 Sp/So, the rarest is 8w9 So/Sx.
so that's why typing Jessye Norman (8w9 So/Sx) took me forever. I thought she was a 3w4 for the longest time, but after I thought about it, 8w9 So/Sx made a lot more sense :yes:
 

Elfboy

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Social instinct is about pushing your energy toward the social sphere and a deep need of belonging. It isn't about conformity, thus it doesn't really interfere with type 4's fear of losing their identity.

if you would like a classic example of conflicting enneatype and instinct variant:
Judge Claude Frollo from the Hunchback of Notre Dame, 1w9 Sx/Sp. the conflict between his Sx infatuation with Esmerelda and his unhealthy 1 tendencies towards hatred of Gypsies and rigid morals and behavior drove him insane
 

chickpea

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I am not wrong, they blend mostly, but sometimes they want different things. they are not always in agreement with each other. So wants to blend in with the group, but an So 4 is going to be more tentative about blending in because they don't want to loose their identity. I don't need to be an expert on the enneagram to know that, nor do I claim to be. it's a simple concept and common sense to anyone who knows even a little bit about it.

it's not nearly as simple as you're making it, social instinct doesn't mean 'blending in' necessarily, especially not for a 4. you're just making up your own definitions like in the ISFPs are more N than INFPs thread.
 

Elfboy

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it's not nearly as simple as you're making it, social instinct doesn't mean 'blending in' necessarily, especially not for a 4. you're just making up your own definitions like in the ISFPs are more N than INFPs thread.

no shit Sherlock, I already said that. I have not made up definitions for anything, you are putting words in my mouth. noticing correlations and irony is not making up definitions, but if you are unable to make even that distinction, then I've wasted too much time already.
 

Catharsis

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if you would like a classic example of conflicting enneatype and instinct variant:
Judge Claude Frollo from the Hunchback of Notre Dame, 1w9 Sx/Sp. the conflict between his Sx infatuation with Esmerelda and his unhealthy 1 tendencies towards hatred of Gypsies and rigid morals and behavior drove him insane
Hmm, yes unhealthy sexual 1's can find themselves in such conflict between their superego and desires, I'll give you that. But that is the only type.
 

Elfboy

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Hmm, yes unhealthy sexual 1's can find themselves in such conflict between their superego and desires, I'll give you that. But that is the only type.

no, there are plenty of other examples.
 

chickpea

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no shit Sherlock, I already said that. I have not made up definitions for anything, you are putting words in my mouth. noticing correlations and irony is not making up definitions, but if you are unable to make even that distinction, then I've wasted too much time already.

good, we agree that you're wasting your time :) glad we could find some common ground, holmes.
 

Elfboy

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off the top of my head

1) Self Preservation 7s when faced with the option of doing something thrilling but potentially dangerous. the 7 pull is saying "hell yeah! that looks fun!" but the self preservation instinct is saying "ah HELL no! there is no way I'm going to do that and risk dying". this happens to me all the time. going to amusement parks in particular is like a war between Self Preservation and 7 :D

2) Self Preservation and 8 can come into disagreement when someone is holding leverage over you and treating you like shit. a classic example (that applies to all types, but especially 8s) is when your boss is just being a douche bag. Self Preservation says "just stay cool, you don't want to loose your job" while the 8 tendency is "fuck this, I'm verbally bitch slapping this fool"

3) Social and 4 come into discord when the Social instinct wants to fit in or do something to fit in with the group that the 4 desire for individuality would be opposed to. for instance, the social instinct want to dress in a way that is relatable to their friends and identifies them as one of the group, but the 4 desire says "no, I want to dress in a way that expresses me. I want to stand out and be outrageous"
 

Catharsis

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off the top of my head

1) Self Preservation 7s when faced with the option of doing something thrilling but potentially dangerous. the 7 pull is saying "hell yeah! that looks fun!" but the self preservation instinct is saying "ah HELL no! there is no way I'm going to do that and risk dying". this happens to me all the time. going to amusement parks in particular is like a war between Self Preservation and 7 :D
The basic desire of type 7 is to be happy and fulfilled, not having fun. If it happens to you often, it is more likely because of your Sp/Sx instinct.

2) Self Preservation and 8 can come into disagreement when someone is holding leverage over you and treating you like shit. a classic example (that applies to all types, but especially 8s) is when your boss is just being a douche bag. Self Preservation says "just stay cool, you don't want to loose your job" while the 8 tendency is "fuck this, I'm verbally bitch slapping this fool"
That's a question if integrity more than anything.

3) Social and 4 come into discord when the Social instinct wants to fit in or do something to fit in with the group that the 4 desire for individuality would be opposed to. for instance, the social instinct want to dress in a way that is relatable to their friends and identifies them as one of the group, but the 4 desire says "no, I want to dress in a way that expresses me. I want to stand out and be outrageous"
Social instinct wants to have a place within a social structure that transcends themselves but that does not mean So-doms adjust their behaviour to fit in.
 

Elfboy

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The basic desire of type 7 is to be happy and fulfilled, not having fun. If it happens to you often, it is more likely because of your Sp/Sx instinct.
you're right, but the overlap is tremendous between fun and happiness. it is very much a 7 vs Self Pres war


That's a question if integrity more than anything.
I agree, but complying with the wishes of authority goes against the nature of 8; whereas defying the authorities and risking loosing one's job would go against the nature of self preservation. thus, 8s have a more difficult time in subordinate positions than other types do (although I'm sure no one likes it)

Social instinct wants to have a place within a social structure that trascends themselves but that does not mean So-doms adjust their behaviour to fit in.
it does if adjusting their behavior is required or perceived as such to fit in. just look at an american high school. you cannot deny that adjusting behavior to fit in is not So motivated.
 
B

brainheart

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I know exactly what elf boy is talking about, actually, and I've read way too many books about the enneagram. (I'd guess around ten.)

While you guys were arguing (unbeknownst to me) I was thinking about me and my social instinct, facing the disturbing possibility that crap, maybe it is my dominant instinct. It's a bitch and I hate it because more than anything I want to be honest and open about expressing myself but I'm overwhelmingly self- conscious (how will others react) and I don't want to insult or offend those I love aka my social group. It's not just wanting to be part of the elite crowd, we fours (like anyone) aren't so one- dimensional, but also consideration of those who matter in our lives. I think that's why social fours can often be anti-social: wanting to be unique and honest while being accepted isn't so easy. Not to mention, sure yeah, I'd love to be a part of the expats in paris or the beats or hang with current musicians, writers, etc, but I'm too freaked to try because my stuff probably isn't as good and I'm not cool enough, so it becomes this unattainable longing as I spend too much time moping on sites like this.
 
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