Differences/similarities of 3s & 1s (especially in an NFJ)

[OrangeAppled]

I actually find 1s & 3s easy to confuse, especially when a person is a Feeling type. Both can seem driven, organized, holding high standards, etc.


I want to generally compare & contrast them, but also with a view to typing my INFJ.

I was leaning towards 3w4 for my INFJ, but now I'm thinking 1 (1w2?) is very plausible after reading about possible misidentifications between the two. I went through the descriptions & find them both equally applicable in some areas & equally not applicable in others...so needless to say, I am stumped.

A few things about him:

- has a strong need to be in some position of authority, and tends to resent those who are authorities whom he doesn't see as qualified
- strong need to be admired & seem inspirational to others, likes to feel useful & needed
- can appear very status conscious & ambitious, but denies these as motivations
- when stressed, has mini emotional meltdowns where he'll wallow a bit, but then suddenly regroups quickly
- is definitely aware of his emotions (3s supposedly are not so aware...?)
- can appear cool & aloof with people at first, but can get mawkishly sentimental with those close to him
- hates the idea of not being unique....likes to be different from others & goes out of his way to be different
- can neglect close family/friends by being distracted by "lesser" people seeking his help
- can be paranoid about how others view/treat him, thinking people are out to get him or have some personal bias against him
- can be very insistent on organization, but is not mean about it & is more principle-oriented than stuck on rules....friends affectionately call him "Nazi" and "pitbull"
- can be overly critical of things because his taste is narrow & picky, but he'll admit this flaw
- has expressed he gets tired of "putting on a performance" in order to get ahead with people he thinks dislike him
- places this huge emphasis on being sociable & friendly & interacting with people, but then is very quiet & reserved socially, hanging back at parties to observe
- people often view him as a bit snobby
- sometimes complains people don't do as much for him as he does for them in a half-joking manner, but it's not true
- he seemed a lot less aware or interested in others' expectations of him when he was a child (according to him) & even rejected the avenues of achievement set before him,; as a child he sounded very Ni, but as an adult his Fe is quite obvious, so this definitely could account for that difference

 

[Thunderbringer]

The difference between 3w4 and 1w2 is quite easy to recognize. Threes are more at ease when promoting themselves whereas Ones aren't. Ones come from a position of superiority, so they don't really feel the need to brag. Threes subconsciously feel less worthy than others so they brag in order to get noticed and acknowledged.

 

[Southern Kross]

Hmm, perhaps some of your bf's traits could be social variant related. It might be an added difficultly to differentiate 3 from 1 if this is the case.

From what I understand:

Similarities
determined
self-disciplined
seek self-improvement
goal-driven
perfectionistic
seemingly sure of themselves (but often self-doubting)

Differences
1s are highly self-critical, 3s are not
3s desire the spotlight, but 1s typically avoid it
3s are very self-aware of their image, 1s don't care much about their's
3s desire extrinsic models of success, where 1s value intrinsic ones
1s will put everything on the line to adhere to their convictions, and 3s are more willing to compromise in order to preserve what matters to them
1s are more rigid and 3s are more adaptable
3s need affirmation from others to feel they are not worthless, but 1s desire affirmation to confirm that they are right

As an aside: I remember reading somewhere that 3s are more likely to mistype as a 1 rather than the other way around. I'm not sure why though...

 

[Elfboy]

Hmm, perhaps some of your bf's traits could be social variant related. It might be an added difficultly to differentiate 3 from 1 if this is the case.

From what I understand:

Similarities
determined
self-disciplined
seek self-improvement
goal-driven
perfectionistic
seemingly sure of themselves (but often self-doubting)

Differences
1s are highly self-critical, 3s are not
3s desire the spotlight, but 1s typically avoid it
3s are very self-aware of their image, 1s don't care much about their's
3s desire extrinsic models of success, where 1s value intrinsic ones
1s will put everything on the line to adhere to their convictions, and 3s are more willing to compromise in order to preserve what matters to them
1s are more rigid and 3s are more adaptable
3s need affirmation from others to feel they are not worthless, but 1s desire affirmation to confirm that they are right

As an aside: I remember reading somewhere that 3s are more likely to mistype as a 1 rather than the other way around. I'm not sure why though...

3s are self critical as hell

 

[Speed Gavroche]

3s are self critical as hell

3 can be critical about their image, 1 are critical about their behavior and morality, commpletely different.

 

[Elfboy]

3 can be critical about their image, 1 are critical about their behavior and morality, commpletely different.

I thought 3s were critical about both. is this not the case?

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Common points
High expectations from themselves as well as from others.
Difficulties to delegate.
Working hard, active, efficient, leanings to conclude

Differences
The 1's speech is sometimes moralsitic, the 3's is charged with vanity
The 1 usually acomplish one task after another, the 3s have several on the back burner at the same time
The 1 do things methodically, with pragmatism, the 3 is more charming an can change his target to adapt to situation or others's expectations
The 1 is pessimistic and worry about errors from past and future, the 3 is optimistic and focused on success.

 

[Elfboy]

Common points
High expectations from themselves as well as from others.
Difficulties to delegate.
Working hard, active, efficient, leanings to conclude

Differences
The 1's speech is sometimes moralsitic, the 3's is charged with vanity
The 1 usually acomplish one task after another, the 3s have several on the back burner at the same time
The 1 do things methodically, with pragmatism, the 3 is more charming an can change his target to adapt to situation or others's expectations
The 1 is pessimistic and worry about errors from past and future, the 3 is optimistic and focused on success.

damnit, I'm confused again

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I thought 3s were critical about both. is this not the case?

Not at all. 3s are focused on succes, not on critic.

 

[Elfboy]

Common points
High expectations from themselves as well as from others.
Difficulties to delegate.
Working hard, active, efficient, leanings to conclude

Differences
The 1's speech is sometimes moralsitic, the 3's is charged with vanity
The 1 usually acomplish one task after another, the 3s have several on the back burner at the same time
The 1 do things methodically, with pragmatism, the 3 is more charming an can change his target to adapt to situation or others's expectations
The 1 is pessimistic and worry about errors from past and future, the 3 is optimistic and focused on success.

damnit, I'm confused again

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I thought 3s were critical about both. is this not the case?

Not at all. 3s are focused on succes, not on critic. And they are somewhat critical about their imaga only sometimes when they connect to 6, absolutely not their usual behavior.

 

[Elfboy]

hmm, I've got more thinking to do

 

[OrangeAppled]

Good stuff, guys, thanks!

The difference between 3w4 and 1w2 is quite easy to recognize. Threes are more at ease when promoting themselves whereas Ones aren't. Ones come from a position of superiority, so they don't really feel the need to brag. Threes subconsciously feel less worthy than others so they brag in order to get noticed and acknowledged.

Here, I see him as a 3. Would 3s play the self-deprecation card to discreetly brag (if you know what I mean)? He doesn't overtly brag, but there's definitely a need for people to think he is important. He's outright made statements about pursuing some position so he doesn't feel "worthless". I see his motivation as more of a personal value issue than anything, but it's confusing when his way of establishing his image is not through the typical 3 means. It's like he's adopted a 1 persona.

Some 1 stuff I've read that doesn't apply to him:
- he's not on any clear mission, other than finding his own niche where he feels valued
- he's not repressed concerning the pleasures of life; he's actually more indulgent
- he's not particularly realistic

3 stuff that doesn't apply:
- He does not put his feelings in a box; he is aware of his emotions & definitely appears as a Feeling type
- He is not unaware of what he wants for himself, societies expectations seem secondary. Maybe that's the 4 wing though? However he is not aware of his own defects like a 4, or he prefers to deflect them rather than embrace them anyhow.
- As a child, he was not so aware of what people expected from him, or he chose to ignore it, not focused on excelling so much as doing his own thing.

Hmm, perhaps some of your bf's traits could be social variant related. It might be an added difficultly to differentiate 3 from 1 if this is the case.

I'd guess he is so/sx variant. I see him as an INFJ of the Fe-aux variety, not one who'd be mistaken for an NT, and I attribute some of this to his enneagram & instinctual stacking.

Differences
1s are highly self-critical, 3s are not
3s desire the spotlight, but 1s typically avoid it
3s are very self-aware of their image, 1s don't care much about their's
3s desire extrinsic models of success, where 1s value intrinsic ones
1s will put everything on the line to adhere to their convictions, and 3s are more willing to compromise in order to preserve what matters to them
1s are more rigid and 3s are more adaptable
3s need affirmation from others to feel they are not worthless, but 1s desire affirmation to confirm that they are right

As an aside: I remember reading somewhere that 3s are more likely to mistype as a 1 rather than the other way around. I'm not sure why though...

Overall I am seeing 3 again for him. The bolded hits home most. He is self-critical, but it's a vulnerability he reserved only for those close to him. The self-deprecation around others strikes me as fishing for validation. He doesn't really want the spotlight, as in, being the center of attention. It's more that he liked positions of authority, even if he's working in the background.

Some of this could just be because he is an INFJ though. 3 is associated with extroversion, I know, but he is an introvert, albeit a moderate one.

Common points
High expectations from themselves as well as from others.
Difficulties to delegate.
Working hard, active, efficient, leanings to conclude

Differences
The 1's speech is sometimes moralsitic, the 3's is charged with vanity
The 1 usually acomplish one task after another, the 3s have several on the back burner at the same time
The 1 do things methodically, with pragmatism, the 3 is more charming an can change his target to adapt to situation or others's expectations
The 1 is pessimistic and worry about errors from past and future, the 3 is optimistic and focused on success.

I suppose I see him as more of a 3 here also. Although, he is not what I call charming (I mean, I find him charming ), he does use a more personable approach with people. He is also more adaptable than people expect, but can also get really stubborn. Right now he lapses between pessimism and optimism, but he's more optimistic about the future than anything. I see this moody 4 side at times, which can be negative & melancholy, but I can't tell if it's the wing for 3 or the 1's disintegration point.

Anyway, I am leaning towards 3w4 again, so/sx. How does that sound in comparison to my list of traits for him?

 

[Thunderbringer]

Do you think he might be a 5w4? Ones, Threes, and Fives are all in the Competency triad, so they might seem similar when they're in a work environment or thinking about work. Anyway, from what you've said, he seems like a CP 3w4. CP 3's often downplay their abilities in order to gain recognition from others especially if they're known to be attention whores.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Do you think he might be a 5w4? Ones, Threes, and Fives are all in the Competency triad, so they might seem similar when they're in a work environment or thinking about work. Anyway, from what you've said, he seems like a CP 3w4. CP 3's often downplay their abilities in order to gain recognition from others especially if they're known to be attention whores.

I'm sorry, I don't know what "CP" means (?).

He is definitely not a 5. The 5 wing aspect of my personality even puzzles him a bit.
He's very people-oriented, far more interested in achievement that is recognized by others than becoming an obscure expert, isn't withdrawn/a lone wolf like many 4s & 5s, doesn't have an intellectual/bookish streak at all (he is greatly interested in aesthetics, the arts & culture though).

My INFJ does have a tendency to "accidentally" give the impression he has more authority than he really does, & it has caused some conflicts, which may be why he acts self-deprecating in the next breath.

 

[Southern Kross]

I see this moody 4 side at times, which can be negative & melancholy, but I can't tell if it's the wing for 3 or the 1's disintegration point.

Yes, that is the difficulty. Have you read this description? It has some of the most comprehensive and well laid out ones I've seen - it describes stress and growth points for each type particularly well.

Anyway, I am leaning towards 3w4 again, so/sx. How does that sound in comparison to my list of traits for him?

Still not sure. Have you tried comparing 1w2 and 4w3 descriptions? As someone said earlier, it might make the differences become more apparent. I find these ones to be pretty good and the 3w4 one seems to address some of the things you were conflicted about:

1w2s in contrast sees the 1w9 focus as too detached from humanity and have a more practical morality focus, for example things between people like ethics and etiquette. The 1w2's focus on where to fix things is more in the trenches due to their 2 wing. They value connections between others above abstract ideals in terms of application of principles. They are more "human" which makes them better suited towards activism than philosophy. They take social issues more seriously and define fairness and what is right less in absolute terms and more what they see is equitable for others. This is why they are said to be natural advocates. In comparison to the 1w9, the 1w2 has less internal conflict between thought and action and feels more compelled than burdened. 1w2s feel more compelled to address what needs fixing in the shared interpersonal space between them and others. They see this as their duty. This combined with using the moral highground to establish and protect personal boundaries between themselves and others makes them seem more authoritarian. While they are harder on others around them and can seem condescending, they are also very hard on themselves. They would have a hard time looking at themselves in the mirror if they didn't take action.

The 3w4 version of outstanding is closer to something that's more w4 exclusive, more unique and original, just out of reach and admired from a distance. 3w4s are more aloof, more melanchonlic and icy cool. They tend to romanticize the hard work needed to get to top when no one was looking: "the dignity that is in work"(Obama). They are about putting their best foot forward in a more professional dignified manner. As one poster put it:

"The 3w4 romanticising of “hard work” is really the keen awareness of the image/reality dichotomy – it’s about “everything you don’t see” – the work it takes to “appear as though there is no effort involved” – it’s about knowing “what it takes”; that sense of bittersweetness every time someone gives you a compliment. It’s the secret you keep of everything you’re not – of how you’ve had to become, but that no one else will ever know. It’s the steely, gracious and enigmatic smile as you walk on stage, thinking about “what it’s taken to get here”. That’s the 3w4 romanticism of hard work. That sense of being born with leaden feet, but having overcome it with nothing but willpower and desire, to take to flight as though always born with great and golden wings."

Source

 

[Thunderbringer]

I'm sorry, I don't know what "CP" means (?).

He is definitely not a 5. The 5 wing aspect of my personality even puzzles him a bit.
He's very people-oriented, far more interested in achievement that is recognized by others than becoming an obscure expert, isn't withdrawn/a lone wolf like many 4s & 5s, doesn't have an intellectual/bookish streak at all (he is greatly interested in aesthetics, the arts & culture though).

My INFJ does have a tendency to "accidentally" give the impression he has more authority than he really does, & it has caused some conflicts, which may be why he acts self-deprecating in the next breath.

CP = Counter-passionate. Which basically means the opposite of how a type acts. A 3 strives for attention and will do anything to get it. A CP 3 will seem to avert attention away from themselves, but will do so in situations where acting as such is guaranteed to call attention on themselves.

 

[OrangeAppled]

CP = Counter-passionate. Which basically means the opposite of how a type acts. A 3 strives for attention and will do anything to get it. A CP 3 will seem to avert attention away from themselves, but will do so in situations where acting as such is guaranteed to call attention on themselves.

Okay...yeah, from the link [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION] posted, this is definitely true about him:

On a more subconscious level threes are aware of the inconsistencies in their self-presentation that are caused by their efforts to find the right angle with others. They can be either very boring or very fun for example. They may feel others are on the verge of seeing that they are not quite who they appear to be. Without fully realizing it they hint to others that they are "not just anyone". They excessively let slip clues like went to a good school, has a great sense of style, was good at soccer as a kid, has a great career, how good they are at their hobby, etc. They subtly remind others of the interesting person they are or the ideal person they are in the process of becoming. On a more conscious level they may even be excessively forthright about certain weaknesses to look more professional or to be seen as more humble, perhaps overcorrecting what feels "off" in themselves.

That's EXACTLY what he does.

And thanks SK for the links & info....still reading it all now. Now wondering if he's 3w2....but I'd think a 3w2 so/sx would seem very extroverted, and he doesn't. He's reserved & more of an observer socially. Plus he's more clearly Ni than Fe, although his Fe thinking is strong.

3 vs 1: Threes are much more natural at promoting themselves. No type finds it as difficult to toot their own horn as a one.

So then clearly, he is more of a 3 here, although the way he toots his own horn is tricky .

3 vs 2: Twos are compliant types that feel they have to do things. Twos also find it very difficult to forgive themselves.

3 vs 4: Threes focus more on self-development while fours focus more on self-expression. Fours must live out their emotional states.

This is not true of him either. He WANTS to take on responsibilities. He also seems to forgive himself pretty easily. He's also more focused on development than expression.

 

[21%]

How healthy is he?

Healthy 3w4s might appear closer to healthy 6s and 1s. Healthy 3w2s could take on healthy characteristics of 6s and 4s (including awareness of one's own emotions)

I'm not really knowledgeable about integrations, but I can speak from experience that both your main type and wing seem to integrate/disintegrate depending on your stress level, so that might be worth looking into

 

[OrangeAppled]

^ I'd say he's around average level of health. In reading over the health levels for both type 1 & 3 at the enneagram institute site, I could see bits of him from the top to the bottom level in both, but the high-average sounded most like him on a typical day.

In reading the 3 descriptions, I now wonder if sx/sp is not possible for him. I saw his focus on groups as an indicator of so-dom, but maybe that's just being a 3 & Fe-aux?

He had his monthly mini-meltdown recently (I swear men PMS also ), and it really is a flip from emotional to business-like for him.

Social/Sexual

This stacking will cause most of the social variant issues described for the social/self-pres to manifest. The primary differences will be in the arena of interpersonal relationships. Because this is still a social subtype, this Three will strive for the accumulation of wealth in cultures where there is social validation for wealth. The motivation for attainment of material wealth will be derived less out of need for stability and more purely from the desire for social admiration. As with all self-preservation last types, this Three will find it difficult to expend sufficient energy in practical matters, except where there is social pressure to do so. Therefore, just as with the social/self-pres Three; this Three will have an desirable home; but most likely it will fall into disarray when visitors are not expected. With the social/self-pres stacking, there is more internal motivation (stemming from the self- preservation instinct in the secondary position) to maintain order and stability for themselves. With this soc/sexual subtype the motivation to keep up appearances is more purely external.

This type can still be materially successful, but they will not be as directly focused on this goal as the social/self-pres Three. There will be many occasions where the lure of enjoyment (even excess) will take precedence over the need to stay on the "straight and narrow." Focus on interpersonal relationships, as well as longing for intensity of experience is far more pronounced in this type of Three than in the social/self-pres. Having the social instinct backed by the sexual instinct creates the most playful energy combination, making this Three seem somewhat like a Seven. While social validation is still the primary focus, sexual validation as well as intimacy are also sought, and it is more likely for this subtype to choose “impractically” in the area of relationships (though they may keep their more “socially unacceptable” friends hidden from public scrutiny.)

When these Threes are healthy, their interpersonal skills become a useful tool for grounding themselves and for finding what they really want from life and for finding who they really are. They learn to maintain a more consistent identity, bringing all of who they really are to the forefront, which means recognizing the real self first.


Sexual/Self-pres

This subtype can appear almost Four-like. They can be dramatic and appear introspective, especially with the Four wing. There is an on and off quality to these Threes. They can be very emotional and then become very business like. It’s not uncommon to find this subtype in the arts, especially as actors, singers or performers. The outward sexual energy coupled with the secondary self-pres energy can cause these Threes to focus on projecting an image of themselves to the world. They will seek validation in the area of their persona. This type especially wrestles with the authenticity of the persona/image they create. On the one hand, the image protects the real self, but at the same time they hate the image they project. This subtype is likely to be in a constant state of flux when it comes to the image they project and for this reason, they run the risk of burn-out and disillusionment. They are more prone to depression than the other subtypes.

When healthier, these Threes begin to trust their intimate relationships, and begin to disentangle the real self from the flux of partial identities they create. They learn that being vulnerable is necessary if they are to get what they really want, which is to reveal the real self and trust that they are lovable even with their flaws.