I think the Enneagram is making me worse

[Alternatum]

I've been unhealthily obsessed with the E-gram since getting into it one year and eight months ago. I was also obsessed with MBTI but as I never saw the same potential with that one it didn't go as far. My life was going downhill anyway, but this appears to be making my edginess and frustration worse, especially as I crave to discuss E-gram issues with other people – like I cannot resolve anything without someone else 'backing me up'. But forums are terrible for this – I crave a proper conversation, with an immediate response.

I don't understand it though because for six months I was fairly confident of being a six. This is a major achievement for someone like myself. But I can't stop questioning what apparently doesn't 'fit', such as being under-productive, self-indulgent, self-absorbed, spaced-out, sentimental etc. I typed as a six due to having apparently 'understood' and strongly felt the underlying type 'signature' at work in my mind.

Many times I have rationally explained to myself that no one can construct type descriptions (that are based on manifestations) that can apply to everyone of that type – behaviours and conscious thoughts cannot be reliably mapped to particular fixations - these are at best general trends. You see after a while you tend to find that the E-gram cannot really be understood through words alone, but through experience and gut-feeling.

But then someone says something along the lines of 'this type is like this or that' and I panic and have doubts again – why can't I just listen to my own sense of reason – why do I need everyone to agree with me?

Anyway, enough. I really want to give up on trying to understand myself as a 'type', but it's like I can't quit. I have decided to try to find a therapist to help me resolve my 'issues'. I crave to talk to someone in person about all this, including my obsession with 'finding my lost self', and because I honestly feel it is the only way I might be able to just try to understand myself as an individual, without worrying whether it fits a god-damn 'type' or not.

 

[Jaguar]

In the process of trying to slap a number on your forehead, you have uncovered something about yourself that is worth looking into:

why do I need everyone to agree with me?

 

[sleuthiness]

Don't you have local transit? Chances are very high of finding someone as interested.

 

[kyuuei]

I'm sorry I'm not much help with things like this.. But truly, why do you doubt yourself? Is anyone truly an expert one who or what you are more than you? And even if you aren't a six--it means you just mistook the words of the description.. not that YOURE the one who changed..

Are you scared that you lie to yourself? Or that you're delusional about what you think you are?

 

[Alternatum]

In the process of trying to slap a number on your forehead, you have uncovered something about yourself that is worth looking into:

Yes. This is the sort of thing that made me think six. But I forgot that this is in itself something that needs exploring rather than just something that makes the E-gram frustrating.

Don't you have local transit? Chances are very high of finding someone as interested.

What so I can meet someone? I just assume people would not want to befriend me (or I won't risk rejection), though I have had the odd friend in real-life. But I would do text-based chat or maybe even meet people, but not phone or skype them. This defeatist thing is another problem I want to resolve.

I'm sorry I'm not much help with things like this.. But truly, why do you doubt yourself? Is anyone truly an expert one who or what you are more than you? And even if you aren't a six--it means you just mistook the words of the description.. not that YOURE the one who changed..

Are you scared that you lie to yourself? Or that you're delusional about what you think you are?

I am scared I am delusional, as that means I cannot trust any of my perceptions or that I might be hiding some awful truth. The six perception was pretty strong though, so doubting it again was surprising. I don't particularly want to be a six however - there is no type investment in that regard.

It also really angers me when people try to force others into 'molds' based only on theory or biased observation, another thing that bothers me about personality typing in general.

 

[sleuthiness]

What so I can meet someone? I just assume people would not want to befriend me (or I won't risk rejection), though I have had the odd friend in real-life. But I would do text-based chat or maybe even meet people, but not phone or skype them. This defeatist thing is another problem I want to resolve.

Moreso so you can say much of what's on your mind without standing out, but potentially within earshot of someone who can relay a thoughtful response.

 

[Lotr246]

Alternatum, I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I've also had a VERY hard time deciding on my type, and wish it wasn't so, so I'll share the benefit of my exp. I've concluded recently that I'm a Four, but I'll probably question it again tomorrow since I'm always analyzing my moods that so frequently change. One of things that helped me determine my core type was to look in the past at my motivations for my actions BEFORE I learned the Enneagram (and MBTI, for that matter). Not to say that my motivations changed after knowing the Enneagram, but I know that at that time I wasn't as self-conscious as I am today, partly as a result of personality theories. I was able to see this most clearly in a short story I wrote a few years ago based on my own life experiences. It dealt with my dissatisfaction with my present situation, my longing to be in another relationship, and ultimately realizing that the present moment was (and had always been) the most fulfilling. So, for me, it was pretty clear that I was a Four. But, what always gets me into trouble in determining my type is to compare myself to others, such as I'm nothing like that Four, Six, Nine, etc. So, I can't be one. If I went by appearances, people wouldn't see me as a Four since I look quite normal, but my actions are on the whole motivated by a need to separate myself from others, or to see myself as more special than others. And if someone else is just like me, it really throws me off. I feel I don't have the space to be myself.

Another thing that I found really helpful was this video series on Youtube. They're quite long, but the only one I could listen attentively to all the way through was of my type. The others didn't resonate with me in the way that it did. I'll post the type Six for you, but there's some for all the types if you're unsure. Believe me, I spent a long time going through them. Good luck, and I hope you;ll be able to let go of finding or settle on your type in the future.

 

[ICUP]

You sound like a six. Without a grounding influence around, I can spin myself into worlds of self-doubt about things I know are true to me. For all that is and ever will be, believe that you have figured it out. Who is going to do a better job of figuring yourself out than YOU?! I certainly know you have put in the work to do so and MORE.

 

[Alternatum]

Alternatum, I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I've also had a VERY hard time deciding on my type, and wish it wasn't so, so I'll share the benefit of my exp. I've concluded recently that I'm a Four, but I'll probably question it again tomorrow since I'm always analyzing my moods that so frequently change. One of things that helped me determine my core type was to look in the past at my motivations for my actions BEFORE I learned the Enneagram (and MBTI, for that matter). Not to say that my motivations changed after knowing the Enneagram, but I know that at that time I wasn't as self-conscious as I am today, partly as a result of personality theories. I was able to see this most clearly in a short story I wrote a few years ago based on my own life experiences. It dealt with my dissatisfaction with my present situation, my longing to be in another relationship, and ultimately realizing that the present moment was (and had always been) the most fulfilling. So, for me, it was pretty clear that I was a Four. But, what always gets me into trouble in determining my type is to compare myself to others, such as I'm nothing like that Four, Six, Nine, etc. So, I can't be one. If I went by appearances, people wouldn't see me as a Four since I look quite normal, but my actions are on the whole motivated by a need to separate myself from others, or to see myself as more special than others. And if someone else is just like me, it really throws me off. I feel I don't have the space to be myself.

Another thing that I found really helpful was this video series on Youtube. They're quite long, but the only one I could listen attentively to all the way through was of my type. The others didn't resonate with me in the way that it did. I'll post the type Six for you, but there's some for all the types if you're unsure. Believe me, I spent a long time going through them. Good luck, and I hope you;ll be able to let go of finding or settle on your type in the future.

Four, six and nine were the ones I have most seriously considered. But I lean towards thinking myself a six with four and nine issues, rather than having a trifix of say 6-4-9, because for me this is trying to nail things too precisely. I would say six has more of a 'default' (if not always obvious) influence, while my resemblance to the other two is wildly varying.

I might watch the videos, but I'm worried I won't relate to the six video - it depends what the emphasis is - if it's about personal experiences rather than 'this is how all sixes are externally', yeah maybe.

You sound like a six. Without a grounding influence around, I can spin myself into worlds of self-doubt about things I know are true to me. For all that is and ever will be, believe that you have figured it out. Who is going to do a better job of figuring yourself out than YOU?! I certainly know you have put in the work to do so and MORE.

What would you say are your 'grounding influences'?

 

[Asterion]

There's no need to worry about making mistakes, just accept what you believe is most probable and call it true until something else becomes more probable. Life isn't full of one hundred percents, sometimes you'll never get to the answer unless you confidently make a mistake.

Jeez, I typed myself as 5, then 7, then 6, then 3, all the while scoring high on 9 on every quiz. I became each type for about a month (sometimes longer) until my subconscious mimicking of their traits wore off, and eventually on the bus ride home just coming off of mimicking type 3, I finally realized what type I'd always revert back to. Maybe yours will be the same?

 

[ICUP]

What would you say are your 'grounding influences'?

One person that I trust. I must have one person that I can trust, and that person has to be someone who I consider to be knowledgeable and intelligent, and has good answers. They also must be "grounded" and reliable, a J-type.

 

[Alternatum]

There's no need to worry about making mistakes, just accept what you believe is most probable and call it true until something else becomes more probable. Life isn't full of one hundred percents, sometimes you'll never get to the answer unless you confidently make a mistake.

Jeez, I typed myself as 5, then 7, then 6, then 3, all the while scoring high on 9 on every quiz. I became each type for about a month (sometimes longer) until my subconscious mimicking of their traits wore off, and eventually on the bus ride home just coming off of mimicking type 3, I finally realized what type I'd always revert back to. Maybe yours will be the same?

Primary types (3,6,9) are least amenable to being sharply defined - they are more likely to resemble other types, though no one is a 'pure' type. Apparently I'm a very impure type

 

[Chiharu]

I've been unhealthily obsessed with the E-gram since getting into it one year and eight months ago. I was also obsessed with MBTI but as I never saw the same potential with that one it didn't go as far. My life was going downhill anyway, but this appears to be making my edginess and frustration worse, especially as I crave to discuss E-gram issues with other people – like I cannot resolve anything without someone else 'backing me up'. But forums are terrible for this – I crave a proper conversation, with an immediate response.

I don't understand it though because for six months I was fairly confident of being a six. This is a major achievement for someone like myself. But I can't stop questioning what apparently doesn't 'fit', such as being under-productive, self-indulgent, self-absorbed, spaced-out, sentimental etc. I typed as a six due to having apparently 'understood' and strongly felt the underlying type 'signature' at work in my mind.

Many times I have rationally explained to myself that no one can construct type descriptions (that are based on manifestations) that can apply to everyone of that type – behaviours and conscious thoughts cannot be reliably mapped to particular fixations - these are at best general trends. You see after a while you tend to find that the E-gram cannot really be understood through words alone, but through experience and gut-feeling.

But then someone says something along the lines of 'this type is like this or that' and I panic and have doubts again – why can't I just listen to my own sense of reason – why do I need everyone to agree with me?

Anyway, enough. I really want to give up on trying to understand myself as a 'type', but it's like I can't quit. I have decided to try to find a therapist to help me resolve my 'issues'. I crave to talk to someone in person about all this, including my obsession with 'finding my lost self', and because I honestly feel it is the only way I might be able to just try to understand myself as an individual, without worrying whether it fits a god-damn 'type' or not.

I can really empathize you here. I had a similar experience when i first discovered typology. I obsessed with both E-gram and MBTi. My type changed from INTP to INFP to ENTP to ENFP, and from 4 to 8 to 7 before some lovely people on typoc helped me realize i was a 4-7-8 tritype.

The best advice i can offer you is to:

a) IGNORE what other people say about your type. Everyone experiences things differently, and their type will manifest differently for them than it will for you. We're so quick to doubt ourselves. DON"T. If you say you're a 6, you're a 6. Don't view discrepancies as a need to panic and re-analyze your type. Just note "Oh, that's interesting" and think about it rationally as an impersonal idea.

b) ... I wish I had advice to give you pertaining to your need to discuss E-gram, but I don't. I'm struggling with the same thing because I don't have anyone to talk with in RL either. Even when my friends/family try a bit, they just don't understand it or understand why it's important to me. Besides, I don't want to talk to someone who only knows as much as I do because I'm the one who taught them, I want to argue with someone, I want to learn. If you figure something out let me know lol.

 

[Alternatum]

Thanks Chiharu. I think it is particularly a problem for people looking for something to help solve their inner-problems (not saying this applies to you necessarily). While the E-gram is meant to allow people to achieve self-actualisation without external help, I don't think the 'go it alone' approach is suited to everyone. I'm a big believer that what works for one person will not necessarily work for everyone.