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Type 1 or Idealistic Type 8

Elfboy

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8s that are idealistic and cause driven can seem extremely similar to type 1. both can be extremely choleric, critical, domineering, passionate and driven to succeed at all costs. a few examples of people who seem close to both types are. these types can especially resemble each other when healthy. healthy 8s become more self disciplined and justice/peace serving like 1s while healthy 1s become more passionate, uninhibited and eccentric like 8s.

Martin Luther King
Alex Jones (investigative journalist)
John Brown (abolitionist)
Susan B Anthony
Richard Wagner (opera composer)
Elizabeth, Queen of England
Franco Corelli (opera singer, tenor)
George Washington
David, King Israel

Jules Winfield (Pulp Fiction)
Light Yagami (Death Note)
Pharaoh (Yugioh)
Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)
Gandalf The Grey (Lord of the Rings)
Hajime Saito (Rurouni Kenshin)
Shogo Amakusa (Rurouni Kenshin)
Patrick Bateman (American Psycho) he could also be a 3

what type to you think these historical figures and characters are? can you think of any other characters or historical figures that give off vibes of both enneatypes?
 

ultimawepun

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Both want power. Type 8 sees power as an end itself. Type 1 sees power as a mean to an end(perfection?). At least, that's what I think.

If that isn't the case, then an 'Idealistic 8' would make Type 1 unnecessary.

EDIT: I don't know too much about the people you listed, but I think knowing what motivates them can greatly help distinguish between the two types.
 

Viridian

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Both want power. Type 8 sees power as an end itself. Type 1 sees power as a mean to an end(perfection?). At least, that's what I think.

If that isn't the case, then an 'Idealistic 8' would make Type 1 unnecessary.

EDIT: I don't know too much about the people you listed, but I think knowing what motivates them can greatly help distinguish between the two types.

I think pegging "power" as the Eight's motivation seems a bit negative, not all of them are megalomaniacs. What I do think they seek is freedom from control. Various Sixes demonstrate similar tendencies, which leads them to mistype frequently.
 

Elfboy

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so what would you guys say are the key underlying differences between a cause driven type 8 and a type 1?
 

ultimawepun

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A single type alone overlaps many other types, like how Type 1 (Perfectionism) can easily overlap all motivations from other types. Maybe that's the reason why we have wings, instincts and tri-type?
 

Elfboy

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A single type alone overlaps many other types, like how Type 1 (Perfectionism) can easily overlap all motivations from other types. Maybe that's the reason why we have wings, instincts and tri-type?

true, but 1 and 8 are in the same triad, which makes being shared in a tritype an impossibility.
 

Elfboy

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my guesses are as follows:
Martin Luther King: 8w9
Alex Jones: 8w9
John Brown: 8w7
Susan B Anthony: 1w9
Richard Wagner: 8w7
Elizabeth, Queen of England: 8w9
Franco Corelli: 8w9
George Washington: 8w7
David, King Israel: 8w7

Jules Winfield: 8w9
Light Yagami: 8w9
Pharaoh/Yami Yugi: 8w9
Mithos Yggdrasil: 8w9
Gandalf The Grey: 8w9
Hajime Saito: 1w9
Shogo Amakusa: 8w9
Patrick Bateman: 1w9
 

Viridian

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so what would you guys say are the key underlying differences between a cause driven type 8 and a type 1?

I found this description:

Both Ones and Eights are in the Instinctive Triad, both have strong wills, both are action-oriented, and both have strong notions about how to do things. However, Ones try to convince others to do the right thing (as they see it) from the standpoint of a moral imperative–because it is the right thing to do. They try to logically convince the other of the soundness of their views, but become irritated and less logical when others resists their reasoning. Eights, on the other hand, rely on their own self-confidence, and attempt to sway others by their gutsy convictions and sheer personal charisma. ("I don't know if it's the right way, but it's my way.") Ones try to convert those who resist them: Eights try to power through them.
The greatest misunderstanding between these two types involves their concern with justice, although the nature of their sense of justice can be quite different. Ones hold justice as an extremely important value–many judges, attorneys, advocates, and criminal prosecutors actually are Ones. Ones think a great deal about issues of providing suitable standards for human beings and about the specifics of how to administer a fair and equitable system. Ones at all Levels of Development refer to justice and think that they seek justice (no matter how skewed their interpretation of it may become). In any case, justice is a matter of principles–part of their idealism. They strive after justice and want to rectify injustices wherever they find them because, among other reasons, to do otherwise would be to fail to live up to their high moral standards and make them feel guilty.
In Eights, justice is more of a visceral response, a reaction to witnessing injustices occurring. Eights, generally speaking, do not walk around thinking about these matters, but if they saw a helpless person being harmed or bullied by others, without thinking about it, Eights would rush in to "level the playing field." For Eights, justice has little to do with abstract principles. Eights see themselves as protectors of others, and when they are healthy, they actually are. Eights are more likely to seek justice for "their people"–their family, friends, co-workers, ethnic group, and so forth. It is usually expressed in a concern that those in their care (or under their power and authority) be treated fairly. The cowboy marshal protecting the town against criminals and the union chief negotiating a just wage for the rank and file are examples of this more restricted concern for justice. With Eights, the sense of justice usually involves addressing an imbalance of power. This is quite different from the One who seeks to make sure that people are appropriately rewarded for good actions and punished for bad ones.
Of course, in their unhealthy manifestations, both types can be extremely unjust. Ones will still believe that they are being fair–the punishments they are meting out are for the good of the person being punished, or at the very least, for the good of society. Ones feel they need to rationalize their punitive activities. Eights do not. For unhealthy Eights, administering justice is simply meting out vengeance. ("You hurt me or my people, and I'll destroy you." "He ripped me off. Now he has to pay.") Needless to say, others may question the "justice" in either of these types' unhealthy behavior.
The confusion between Eights and Ones probably also stems from the fact that some Ones may misidentify themselves as Eights since they would like to have the authority and influence of Eights. They may also recognize that they have aggressive impulses and misidentify themselves as an "aggressive type," although they are really compliant to their ideals; the Eight is the true aggressive type par excellence. On the other hand, Eights almost never misidentify themselves as Ones, viewing Ones as lily-livered and bloodless–moral only because they are too weak to be strong. Although Eights themselves are unlikely to think they are Ones, other people sometimes misidentify Eights as Ones because they see them as reformers. But clearly, many natural leaders, including Eights, lead reforms when they are needed. Contrasting Ones such as Pope John Paul II, Ralph Nader, and Hilary Clinton with Eights such as Lee Iococca, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and Barbara Walters gives a vivid sense of their differences.

Does that sound right?
 

ultimawepun

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I found this description:
Does that sound right?

I guess I can agree with that.

@Elfboy

I'm not sure how Gandalf is an 8 to be honest, not that I'm into LOTR. I also see Light as a 1.



For the record, I tested as a 1, but my 8 was a very close second.
 

Aleksei

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my guesses are as follows:
Martin Luther King: 8w9
Alex Jones: 8w9
John Brown: 8w7
Susan B Anthony: 1w9
Richard Wagner: 8w7
Elizabeth, Queen of England: 8w9
Franco Corelli: 8w9
George Washington: 8w7
David, King Israel: 8w7

Jules Winfield: 8w9
Light Yagami: 8w9
Pharaoh/Yami Yugi: 8w9
Mithos Yggdrasil: 8w9
Gandalf The Grey: 8w9
Hajime Saito: 1w9
Shogo Amakusa: 8w9
Patrick Bateman: 1w9
What are you smoking!? Jules Winnifield is a glaringly, painfully obvious 7w8.
 

Speed Gavroche

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my guesses are as follows:
Martin Luther King: 8w9
Alex Jones: 8w9
John Brown: 8w7
Susan B Anthony: 1w9
Richard Wagner: 8w7
Elizabeth, Queen of England: 8w9
Franco Corelli: 8w9
George Washington: 8w7
David, King Israel: 8w7

Jules Winfield: 8w9
Light Yagami: 8w9
Pharaoh/Yami Yugi: 8w9
Mithos Yggdrasil: 8w9
Gandalf The Grey: 8w9
Hajime Saito: 1w9
Shogo Amakusa: 8w9
Patrick Bateman: 1w9

Martin Luther King was a 8w9 Sx/So, but Light and the Queen Elisabeth are 1. Don't know for the other. 8s express their anger quicly and are proud of it while 1s deny it and turn it into ressentment and self internal critic, until they lash out.
 

Elfboy

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What are you smoking!? Jules Winnifield is a glaringly, painfully obvious 7w8.

Jules Winfield is WAY too intense to be a 7. this description from eneagraminstitute pretty well describes the differences between 7s and 8s

Sevens and Eights are both aggressive types (PT, 433-36) and can resemble each other in certain respects. Both are powerful personalities who are able to go after what they want in life, but what they want, and how they attempt to get it, are different.

Sevens are primarily interested in variety–they want to sample as many different experiences as possible and become practical in as much as their practicality gives them the means to pursue the experiences they want to try.

Eights, by contrast, are more interested in intensity–they care less about variety than about having intense experiences that they enjoy. Eights are also interested in power, both as a way to maintain their independence and as a way of asserting their dominance in the environment. Sevens are not particularly interested in having power, seeing the work necessary to maintain it as possibly infringing on their freedom.

Eights are an Instinctive type, and as such, make decisions from their "gut" instincts. They prefer dealing with practical matters, and although emotionally volatile at times, generally remain grounded and down to earth. Sevens are Thinking types, and can have brilliant, quick minds. At the same time, Sevens can get ahead of themselves with their plans, schemes, and interests: they can have trouble staying grounded and on track with their projects. Sevens see themselves as idealistic optimists, while Eights see themselves as hard-nosed realists. Compare Sevens Mike Myers and Goldie Hawn with Eights Danny DeVito and Roseanne Barr.
 

Aleksei

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Jules doesn't seem to have any interest in power or control. He just likes messing with people.
 

Elfboy

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I found this description:



Does that sound right?

actually, I related much more to the 1 side of this comparison. I'm confused now :doh: perhaps this describes average 8s vs 1s? even then, I should relate to the 8 side at least a little bit. do people really view 8s as this hostile and animalistic?
 

Elfboy

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Jules doesn't seem to have any interest in power or control. He just likes messing with people.

I think he's 8 for a number of reasons
- he's way more intense and focused than a 7.
- his revolation at the ending scene is the archtypical epiphony of an 8 integrating to it's growth of 2, so much so that I think the writers knew about the enneagram and did this intentionally
- he gets defensive with John Travolta's character
- he's aggressive as hell and proud of it
- he's incredibly commanding
- 7s are relaxed and go with the flow, 8s go against the flow or make it themselves
 

Aleksei

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The integration into 2 argument is good. 7 as go-with-the-flow... ehh, not so much. 7w8s seem to enjoy stirring shit up for lulz. If he were 8 though he'd be 8w7... he is in no way 9-like. An 8w9 would be more Marcellus Wallace.
 

Viridian

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actually, I related much more to the 1 side of this comparison. I'm confused now :doh: perhaps this describes average 8s vs 1s? even then, I should relate to the 8 side at least a little bit. do people really view 8s as this hostile and animalistic?

I did try to find a description that didn't boil down to "Ones are moral, Eights are selfish pricks". I guess I failed... :(

Yeah, there's a lot of Enneagram stereotypes out there. I do stand by my assertion that Eights are more likely to be averse to being controlled in general. Ones rebel against immoral or inefficient authorities, Sixes against untrustworthy ones. Eights are, I think, more likely to just keep them at arms' length until they say, "Yeah, I respect you". I also think Ones and Sixes are, for this very reason, more compliant, while Eights charge passionately to achieve their objectives, which may be good, bad or anything in between. :)

I don't believe in personality systems that makes some types of people the "bad guys" by default. :nono: I mean, MLK was an Eight! How do those stereotypes last so long? :doh:
 

Elfboy

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The integration into 2 argument is good. 7 as go-with-the-flow... ehh, not so much. 7w8s seem to enjoy stirring shit up for lulz. If he were 8 though he'd be 8w7... he is in no way 9-like. An 8w9 would be more Marcellus Wallace.

agreed, 8w7 works best :)
 

Elfboy

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I did try to find a description that didn't boil down to "Ones are moral, Eights are selfish pricks". I guess I failed... :(

Yeah, there's a lot of Enneagram stereotypes out there. I do stand by my assertion that Eights are more likely to be averse to being controlled in general. Ones rebel against immoral or inefficient authorities, Sixes against untrustworthy ones. Eights are, I think, more likely to just keep them at arms' length until they say, "Yeah, I respect you". I also think Ones and Sixes are, for this very reason, more compliant, while Eights charge passionately to achieve their objectives, which may be good, bad or anything in between. :)
I don't believe in personality systems that makes some types of people the "bad guys" by default. :nono: I mean, MLK was an Eight! How do those stereotypes last so long? :doh:

thankyou, very insightful :)
 
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