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Dammit Enneagram is so confusing! XP

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I've been pretty sure I was a 4, but now I'm starting to think type 7.

4ish traits
-fear of being ordinary
-deep convictions
-disatisfied with lots of things
-intellectually deep
-introverted (well, I'm certain much more introverted than most ENFPs I know)
-enjoy things that are dramatic
-not knowing my personality type is frustrating
-extremely self absorbed
-if something is wrong with me emotionally, I stop everything to fix this problem before going back to whatever else I was doing
-as a kid I was extremely weak and lacked self confidence. I am strong now, but it was totally not there to start with
-acute self awareness.

non 4ish traits
-don't struggle with envy
-not melancholy
-no connection with type 2
-don't struggle with strong emotions
-extremely low neuroticism (the only thing that really freaks me out is physical pain and this is probably a self preservation thing more than anything)

7-ish traits
-perpetually wanting to be a kid
-hedonistic/pleasure seeking
-into fashion and beauty
-like to be noticed (I don't feel the urge to be excepted, impress people or gain people's affection, but I do like the "whoa! who's that!" factor)
-1 sounds like my stress. I do turn kind of "sinners be judged!" under stress and become more formal and authoritative
-Head center sounds more like me than feeling center
-I have extremely sophisticated tastes and am very picky about things I'm into such as high grade tea or opera
-I require a lot to function properly (if I am uncomfortable, sleep deprived, deprived of good food or go for a long time without tea, it affects my performance quite poorly)
-7s are said to make an "entrance" whenever they walk into a room. that is SOO me!
-not self conscious at all
-7s are said to precieve themselves as extremely high value even when on the outside they have nothing. if this is true, that definitely sounds like me
-I tend to get addicted to things (although I usually get more addicted mentally than physically. for instance, I find day dreaming extremely addicting)

non 7-ish traits
-introverted. I could be wrong, but I see an EP 7 being much more extraverted than me (perhaps I'm really an INFP 7)
-not materialistic (I care little about quantity, but I am very picky about quality)
-I don't feel I am quite as light hearted as a 7.
-not shallow (perhaps this is a misconception about 7s, especially NF 7s)
-I sometimes enjoy being serious (although I can't keep it up very long)
 

Thunderbringer

New member
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
274
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
A lot of what you put down as 7-ish traits are actually 4-ish traits. Keep in mind that the melancholy of 4's is exaggerated to the extreme. 4's actually feel ALL emotions to the fullest, thus a happy 4 will be much more happy than even a 7, an angry 4 angrier than an 8, etc. If anything, you sound like an extraverted 4w3.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
^ And on the other side

As a seven...

4ish traits
-deep convictions
-intellectually deep
-introverted (well, I'm certain much more introverted than most ENFPs I know)
-enjoy things that are dramatic
-not knowing my personality type is frustrating
-if something is wrong with me emotionally, I stop everything to fix this problem before going back to whatever else I was doing
-acute self awareness.

I can relate to those points on different levels, I expect many are just your average ENFP traits.

non 7-ish traits
-introverted. I could be wrong, but I see an EP 7 being much more extraverted than me (perhaps I'm really an INFP 7)
-not materialistic (I care little about quantity, but I am very picky about quality)
-I don't feel I am quite as light hearted as a 7.
-not shallow (perhaps this is a misconception about 7s, especially NF 7s)
-I sometimes enjoy being serious (although I can't keep it up very long)

I'm not overly sociable, I seek experience not material things, I'm not shallow and that would be a misconception (we're in the thinking centre here!) and I can be quite serious I just prefer not to be.
 

guesswho

Active member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
1,977
MBTI Type
ENTP
That's because it doesn't make any sense. There is a considerable amount of people who have more than 1 type. And yes it has the wings thing, but my scores on 3 and 7 and 6 are very close. And according to the ennegram theory I can only be one of them, so which one am I ?!

I might as well say start believing in the zodiac too.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Elfboy said:
non 4ish traits
-not melancholy
-no connection with type 2

7-ish traits
-perpetually wanting to be a kid
-hedonistic/pleasure seeking
-1 sounds like my stress. I do turn kind of "sinners be judged!" under stress and become more formal and authoritative
-Head center sounds more like me than feeling center

i'm right there with you on these

ENFPs = 7w4 / 4w7 :doh:
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
the confusing thing is how much they have in common
1) both need to be independent
2) both are highly creative
3) both have a taste for adventure and desire to go on some sort of quest
4) the core needs of 4,5,7 and 8 are all extremely interconnected. 4s need emotional freedom, 5s need intellectual freedom, 7s need behavioral freedom and 8s need freedom from authority.
5) 7's stress is 1, 4s growth is 1, so they can seem a lot alike

in addition, 4w3s and 7w8s tend to have a lot in common
1) both love to be glamorous
2) both tend to have sophisticated tastes in whatever they enjoy
3) both are frequently drawn to being singers. the archtypical diva is a combination of 7w8 and 4w3 traits
4) both have a tendency to be dramatic
5) both have a tendency to be fiery and charismatic
6) both have an "I'm nice until you violate my values" sort of vibe (this is often when you see their fiery charisma)

are there any other peopel who are certain they are 4s or 7s that can elaborate a little more on what it's like?
 

chickpea

perfect person
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Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,729
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INFP
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4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
i think the main difference between the two is that 4's dwell on their negative emotions while 7's try to avoid them and distract themselves from thinking about it
 

Elfboy

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I don't feel like I avoid negative situations or emotions, but I certainly avoid haters. I don't feel like I wallow in my negative emotions either, although I certainly have the 4-ish tendency of drop everything, fix emotional problems and come back. as far as positive/negative, I'm really pretty close to the middle

my dream to do list sounds 7 as hell though
1) make money 100% online and then live all of life outside of work on a huge vacation
2) travel to several countries for 6 months at a time
3) get a pimped out wardrobe
4) have a life that is like a huge adventure
5) rent 2 pirate ships and have a huge "Pirate War" with foam/soft weapons
6) go to japan and become a master at kenjutsu
7) go to Vegas
8) become a black belt in muay boran
9) get involved in Parkour
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
The fact that you don't struggle with strong emotions and have low neuroticism suggests 7 rather than 4.
 

guesswho

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But wouldn't a high neuroticism provoke strong emotions?

And why aren't sevens neurotic? I am.
 
Joined
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Messages
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You sound like a goddamn six.

Shape up or ship out, compadre.

Thread guy seems like a seven.
 
B

brainheart

Guest
You sound like a goddamn six.

Shape up or ship out, compadre.

Thread guy seems like a seven.

Agreed.

Want some elucidation on the four, Elfboy?

Here's my dream to-do list:

1. Write really beautiful profound songs
2. Write really beautiful profound poetry
3. Write really beautiful profound novels
4. Write and direct really beautiful profound films
5. Live in a treehouse in the middle of a forest.
6. Live in a houseboat and tool around rivers.
7. Be a virtuoso musician.
8. Help people. Help animals. Help the planet.
9. Stop getting so caught up in my feelings.
10. Stop beating up on myself.
11. Stop being so self-conscious.
12. Be nicer.
13. Hang with the Beats.
14. Live in Paris in the fifties.
15. Be the next Van Gogh.
 

Elfboy

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You sound like a goddamn six.

Shape up or ship out, compadre.

Thread guy seems like a seven.

interesting, but I disagree, I share neither the basic fear (being without security or guidance) nor the basic desire (security and support) of the 6 (source enneagram institute.com) also, I believe given the basic motivations of a 6, being a 6 with practically 0 neuroticism would be extremely unlikely. I also score next to nothing on either 6 or 3 on any enneagram tests I have taken (which have been several, though I'm not sure of their accuracy). the only connection point to 6 I scored relatively high on was 9, and I feel like most of the questions associated with 9 also applied to 7 (although being 9 is not an impossibility, I doubt it given 6 and 3 are nothing like me)
 

Elfboy

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But wouldn't a high neuroticism provoke strong emotions?

And why aren't sevens neurotic? I am.

neuroticism is the overall emotional response you have to external stimuli. so by definition, high neuroticism does provoke strong emotions. for instance, a highly neurotic person may freak out when one of their friends didn't respond to their facebook message. on the opposite end of the spectrum, a person with substantially low neuroticism will tend to be calm in the most dire circumstances. as a whole though, neuroticism levels are not something that are static like MBTI type. neurotic behavior on the Big 5 is correlated with S, F and J, as well as several enneagram types such as 2 and 6, but one's mind set a far more significant factor. for instance, even an ESFJ 6 will score low on neuroticism if he has a stoic mind set (stoic basically means that you focus on making the best out of what you have, minimalizing the negative effects and maximizing benefit. most people don't use the term anything close to the actual definition)
 
Joined
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interesting, but I disagree, I share neither the basic fear (being without security or guidance) nor the basic desire (security and support) of the 6 (source enneagram institute.com) also, I believe given the basic motivations of a 6, being a 6 with practically 0 neuroticism would be extremely unlikely. I also score next to nothing on either 6 or 3 on any enneagram tests I have taken (which have been several, though I'm not sure of their accuracy). the only connection point to 6 I scored relatively high on was 9, and I feel like most of the questions associated with 9 also applied to 7 (although being 9 is not an impossibility, I doubt it given 6 and 3 are nothing like me)

You're the aforementioned "thread guy".
 

guesswho

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"Neurosis is a class of functional mental disorders involving distress but neither delusions nor hallucinations, whereby behavior is not outside socially acceptable norms.[1] It is also known as psychoneurosis or neurotic disorder, and thus those suffering from it are said to be neurotic. The term essentially describes an "invisible injury" and the resulting condition, and is no longer officially used by the scientific, medical, and psychiatric community."

But this word is pretty obsolete, for instance OCD was referred to as obsessive neurosis a long time ago.

Now it seems that the Big 5 uses it with a different meaning, I don't understand why.

I don't know how one person is supposed to fit in one of those ennegram types. And I also do not understand how Joe thinks I'm type 6 because I can't believe in the ennegram thing.
Just because most 6s are skeptic, does not mean that most skeptics are 6s.
 

Elfboy

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sx/sp
"Neurosis is a class of functional mental disorders involving distress but neither delusions nor hallucinations, whereby behavior is not outside socially acceptable norms.[1] It is also known as psychoneurosis or neurotic disorder, and thus those suffering from it are said to be neurotic. The term essentially describes an "invisible injury" and the resulting condition, and is no longer officially used by the scientific, medical, and psychiatric community."

But this word is pretty obsolete, for instance OCD was referred to as obsessive neurosis a long time ago.

Now it seems that the Big 5 uses it with a different meaning, I don't understand why.

I don't know how one person is supposed to fit in one of those ennegram types. And I also do not understand how Joe thinks I'm type 6 because I can't believe in the ennegram thing.
Just because most 6s are skeptic, does not mean that most skeptics are 6s.

I totally agree. it's not ment to be like MBTI though where people have one type. that's why (let's use 7 as an example) you have wings (8 or 6), stress points (1), growth points (5), as well as tritype: a body center type (891) heart center type (234) and head center type (567). I think my tritype is 748, but I'm not sure of it at this point. the cool thing about the enneagram is that one can develope all 9 centers
 
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