"You aren't invisible."

[sleuthiness]

I find it curious how obtusely/awkwardly certain people in my life attempt to control via passive-aggressiveness when it comes to opening lines of communication, how willing they are to posture to achieve an empty objective. It's like farmer John digging his heels into the ground trying to shove half a human fetus up a cow's asshole; if there aren't any ideas to exchange, what relationship?

Spread the BLAM, the sparkly farkly spineless lowest common denominator goosh trailerpark lunchsack kerplunkin' somewhere that isn't close, please.

Who out there, regardless of etype, has been manipulated in this fashion with any degree of frequency? How have you handled it?

 

[the state i am in]

people with e4 in their blood are the ultimate bullshit detectors. understanding intentions and reasons why. always granting that primary importance. it's one reason why 3w4 is so interesting. the ability at e3 to motivate anyone. to create a goal and go after it and fucking destroy the contradictions, just chop them down. and e4, which asks, why why why, why is this more right than anything else, hwo dare this person assume this is more right than anything else, they don't even fucking give anythign else a chance they just assume, those assholes, how dare they assume, their easy answers, their bullshit traditions that they treat as god-given, fuck them, tell them to go fuck themselves, etc.

which, i now argue, is why there's the infp 4w5 istp 5w6 counterphobic sx/sp love fest. my 4w5 friend who loves the fall as much (more????) as you, for instance, or these two students in my class. the take no shit from those fuckers, do what you think is right, how dare they tell you what is right attitude. the amphetamine vandalism energy, fuck some shit up, etc.

my only advice is that the more you can grant this person who is supposed to be good the right to be bad and then have you reconcile that bad with your own way of seeing how it is real too would probably be for the best. it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt when they have so much of the social reality behind them, and they're evil to us at times especially when we feel totally alien and disconnected from them, but life is better when you can encompass their contradictions too rather than only exacerbate the enormous sense of (fundamental) difference that separates you.

 

[sleuthiness]

Usually sx/sp energy feels complementary in other 5s, how both sides curl sharply inward after sweeping together with radically different perspectives, but in e1s in that sense let demands slip like boiling gas escaping an underwater volcano or your husband burping farts under the covers after an awful film; there's little reason to actively facilitate if it's always been a natural reaction, being part of the gut triad. People will die.

I actually always strive to leave a range of windows open for exchange; I rarely feel anger, store resentment (which makes sx/sp energy refreshing to my shadow side, a tower bell being struck), but resort to self-removal, non-involvement without expressing struggle, with the understanding that the right context will eventually surface.

Is the 5w6 "threeish social aggression" that http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/5/56.html mentions (under physical appearance) what you're referring to? What are your current thoughts on that tritype mess? A theory that states listening to the Fall will help in an so 5's preparation for an open, never-fulfilled retaliation wouldn't be incredibly outrageous; might there also be a draw towards exponentially-detached threeish hologram fields that validate a 5-3-9 self-testing (http://pstypes.blogspot.com/2009/11/enneagram-tritype-descriptions-type.html)?

Also, me me me me me me me.

 

[the state i am in]

the tritype stuff i'll have to get back to you on that. the theories are all over the place, and i need to finish formulating dimensions 2 and 3 before i get to the 7th or whatever that is otherwise my orbits will get all fucked up and you know i need my gravity in place to sleep soundly at night. it is certainly interesting, i just need more confidence in my overall reading so i don't feel like i'm getting all conspiracy theory and like i'm unchecked by any extroverted rationality talk-testing language certainty.

explain to me the so thing. so / what? that's interesting. i've mentioned a very good infp friend of mine who i think you'd get along with amazingly well. i can't read him as sx or so, but i'd been leaning towards sx but now you are showing me a picture that seems to call mine into question and i'm already leaning towards agreeing with you about a claim you're not even making for anyone but yourself. how do you relate to restlessness? my friend has a huge feeling of restlessness that bottles up, but he is kind of isolated and hyperaware of it. he also described it as getting bored with anything rather quickly and needing new bursts of inspiration regularly. i may have mistakenly attributed this to sx, when in fact it could be a much broader variety of things. i know i also feel like i'm seeking, i'm pursuing something aggressively, i need to feel like that, i'm hyperaware of what i want in the moment even when i don't know what i ultimately want, etc. my friend is also much more considerate socially than i am, much much more. i'm wondering how you relate to this picture i'm painting. he showed me his passport picture the other day and he had a fiercely idealistic kind of militantly intense stare that i imagine you relating to very much. i've always oscillated between 4w5 and 9w1 with him because i see the 1 so strongly, more than anything else immediately. but his music taste just screams 4, and his language for discussing it, his desire for originality, honesty, embracing duality, validating the experience of the depraved and seedy subjectivities, etc. which would be closer to you than 9.

sorry if i'm hijacking this.

regarding 5w6s, i'm thinking of the counterphobic 5w6s i know. i don't know how to describe the energy but i feel it immediately. in more unhealthy examples, it results in extreme brashness, confrontation, etc, while being filled with disdain for the stupidity of others, a dark sardonic humor, and a high contrast maybe kind of frank miller-y. i'd be interested in doing a quick study and looking at brit subcultures and counterphobic 5w6. seems like it would be a pretty awesome gang leader. and of course this is how i see mark e smith. the seething underneath, very droll dry humor when in a good mood, extremely moody, aggressive and detecting others as menacing and responding in a very snarling kind of wolflish way. brooding too. this is probably more the sx/sp type. i've also known an sp/so type who was extremely conflicted and equally disdainful and just as ready to cut you off forever if you crossed paths the wrong way, but he wasn't as confrontational and his fear lead to a less physically alarmed/explosive energy/aggressive response.

the counterphobic 5w6 sx/sp males i've been around are unsettling to me. their immediate distrust/alarm/hyperinflated threat detection makes me feel like i always have to be on edge. i can't really handle it, it feels needlessly stressful to me. but i am talking about seriously counterphobic probably with some serious trauma in their pasts and the biggest trust issues i've ever seen.

 

[sleuthiness]

I'm referring to a preoccupation I have and maybe share with other so/sp 5s of threading through crowds, marking currents, all to move in for the kill/information while processing tics, shifts in balance behind the table to my left; weigh your options. What's the time? Time's always an issue, not just for preservation's sake, but in keeping rhythm. I'm restless in a hypervigilant sense, eyes wide open like your friend, that escapes as an immense hunger for counterphobic, very hands-on and direct risk-taking, usually in the form of said information, sometimes unconsciously arousing/provoking strong feelings in others but most chips funnel into disassociating from a self that's in constant flux, which is fucking confusing. Does this resonate with you? Speaking of, you've gotta start providing quotes made by him. Have a mugshot handy? imdb profile? sx/sp?

I wonder if this is anything 5w6s think about all that much, what others might call self-mastery. Definitely not my sx/sp intp friend; he's short n sweet. Score of 10 for brusqueness, sure. Another old high school friend (5w6 so/sp intp) who returned from Iraq a few years ago apparently still maintaining that anime porn flame; my sp/so istp friend recently repeated how he was marveled at how so/sp's able to play as 3 different characters at once with that striking brand of focus. In fact, all the guy used to do in hs calc was attempt to outdo himself in tetris, then proceed to mop the walls with my ass after a challenge. Such an interesting, offbeat (dare I say 'goofy'), but otherwise brilliant person who'd cheer me up (as I would he) seems to have been driven into permanent hibernation via paranoia, whereas Mr. sx/sp makes apparently successful ventures all over the area to meet with others. Far more willing to go for casual than me. Loves slapping his speedo on whenever marginally appropriate. There's that 3 going-towards confidence that gets me, either for my prior reason or to compliment, embolden what's presumably a 4 wing. If someone else, maybe that particular blogger, with the time and a gigantic thesaurus would only complete what's on that page. I'm curious about whether you have much experience interacting with sp/so 5s of either wing, and if so whether or not you recognize a meshing similar to what I'd described in my last reply and/or how either wing provides what you need.

 

[the state i am in]

i'm not sure what you mean about going toward 3. 6 goes towards 9 for integration, no? i think istps in general have a confidence based on assuming that everything is self-evident because they see the world as such. the answers are just so obvious, why doesn't anyone else see them? if you mean 3w4 than yeah, 3w4 sx/sp would be all confidence, would be very focused on playing cards right to get what he would want. also the complete destruction of internal contradiction that comes with e3 in order to mobilize, motivate, and let nothing stop you from reaching your goal.

dissociating from self, huh? from Fi in particular? from Fi trapped by Si? is this like a Fi Si dom-ter loop? why do you need to dissociate? is Ne calming and stabilizing? or does it build up to a crescendo that becomes unmanageable? what sets off the energy kind of cartwheel, and why does it get so dizzy? i don't quite see what the restlessness is aiming for, how can you characterize the drive, what do you want to satiate it?