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7w8 or 8w7?

ChocolateMoose123

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I realize I am one of these two. Problem is whenever I take an online test I tie with these very highly. I resonate a lot with eight internally but on the outside I would say 7 fits. I test as a 5 frequently (last time I took the test I got 5w6. I get 8 for superficial tests a lot) but seven and eight resonate more with me that 5w6 does when I read the description.

So I'm here to ask people of each of those types to describe themselves. I have searched online and I can't place a difference between the two types and wings.
 

the state i am in

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what about 5w6 felt off to you? also, i don't think i've ever seen a non etj 8w7. sx/sp 7w8s might feel more like 8 type, but usually people forget to think about what they were like when they were younger from puberty to 20 or so to determine their first type. 8s have a more controlling presence. rely less than 7w8 on charisma and more on pure threat of force.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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For what it's worth I am an sx/sp/so. I know that much. The description of anxiety and suspiciousness isn't really me. I don't have problems with those things and I can't relate to that. I should also mention that my results vary almost every time I take the enneagram test. Some combination of 5, 7 and 8. I know they are tied together. Does this denote a balance? Schizophrenia? (joke).
 

Domino

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Let me ask you this, babe: What were you like *naturally* as a child? Without all the hammering and buffeting you about. What are you like when you aren't under pressure or having to fight back?

I thought I was a 2, though it never felt right. 3w2 would have been me if left to my own malignant devices (the con artist is still in there though I find it repulsive and only access it when I'm feeling mercenary and aggressive). I have a persona but am not obsessed with it. When I arrived at 4w3, it hit me between the eyes. I'm a moody little bastard. It all made sense. I suspect that my ENFJ friend, Taco, is a 3w4.

Do you use your 8 muscle against the world? Are you like that in private when all is well? Do you feel more light-hearted when given the chance? Do you prefer gaining power, or being empowered?
 

rav3n

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I'm an 8w7 sx/sp who has 5 traits. As a child, no one ever bullied me or if they tried (male or female), they never did it again. Considering how tiny I am, it's pretty funny. If you can relate to this, you might be an 8w7. We're more serious than our 7w8 brethren.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Domino your post got me thinking. As a child I was distinctly 5. When I'm relaxed I'm a 5.

So I started reading online about 5w6 wings (maybe I missed something). I came across counterphobic and phobic 6 wings and I believe I'm a 5w6 (counterphobic). This would make perfect sense as to why 8 makes so much sense to me and I identify with it so much and why I test as such on occasion.

The last two paragraphs of the first main "page" says it perfectly.
http://books.google.com/books?id=B7...&resnum=6&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

case closed. Thanks guys.
 

Domino

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Domino your post got me thinking. As a child I was distinctly 5. When I'm relaxed I'm a 5.

So I started reading online about 5w6 wings (maybe I missed something). I came across counterphobic and phobic 6 wings and I believe I'm a 5w6 (counterphobic). This would make perfect sense as to why 8 makes so much sense to me and I identify with it so much and why I test as such on occasion.

The last two paragraphs of the first main "page" says it perfectly.
http://books.google.com/books?id=B7...&resnum=6&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

case closed. Thanks guys.

Excellent news. Nice to get settled into better-fitting shoes, eh?

That was an interesting read, btw. Very insightful. You attack your fears by confronting them. Aggressing the aggressor.
 

EcK

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Excellent news. Nice to get settled into better-fitting shoes, eh?

That was an interesting read, btw. Very insightful. You attack your fears by confronting them. Aggressing the aggressor.
Yeah but then he'll start being afraid of himself, and turn schizophrenic and avoidant

LOOK AT WHAT YOU VE DONE!
Didn't they tell you that words have power?!
 

wildcat

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I realize I am one of these two. Problem is whenever I take an online test I tie with these very highly. I resonate a lot with eight internally but on the outside I would say 7 fits. I test as a 5 frequently (last time I took the test I got 5w6. I get 8 for superficial tests a lot) but seven and eight resonate more with me that 5w6 does when I read the description.

So I'm here to ask people of each of those types to describe themselves. I have searched online and I can't place a difference between the two types and wings.

Look behind the label.
It is not the thing.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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I have done more research and I believe I'm a counterphobic 6w5. It just makes more sense than any other enneagram. Eerily so.

I never knew this counterphobic or phobic thing existed and most 6 descriptions do not describe 6 well at all. I had to search but what I did find was pretty amazing. Until I read up on it. I also don't think describing 6's as fear based is accurate to those who are sixes. I don't think of my life in terms of being driven by fear. Yet. Everything I've ever done in life was because I was afraid of doing it. That was the core point of it. I looked at it as a mastery of fear not being mastered by it. But I suppose if you are fighting against control it is controlling you nonetheless. Eh. Whatever. Here are some things which I identify with:


People of enneatype Six are essentially insecure, as though life has never quite provided them with a proper footing, as though there existed nothing, either internally or externally, which could serve as a solid foundation. The type Six fixation is therefore deeply and fundamentally existential, and there exists at the core of enneatype Six a tight knot of anxiety, an essential disquietude, and a deep seated desire to find something or someone stable enough in which to place some trust. Given this essential dynamic, it is not surprising therefore to find that Sixes have core issues centering around the contrast between faith and scepticism, trust and distrust, and the legitimate exercise of authority versus the abuse and misuse of power. All Sixes share these core issues, but they respond to them in quite a wide variety of ways, making type Six the most variegated of all the enneatypes and the most difficult by far to describe with specificity.

Sixes are essentially thinking types and tend to utilize their minds in their attempt to find a solid foundation. Sixes are looking for something in which to believe or someone in whom they can place their trust. At a level which barely reaches consciousness, Sixes feel that if they can find "one sure thing," they can quiet their restlessness, and achieve some semblance of much needed "peace of mind." This desire for some solidity, combined with their general suspiciousness, gives rise to a complicated relationship to those they view as authorities. The side of the Six which is looking for something to believe in, is often very susceptible to the temptation to turn authority over to an external source, whether it be in the form of an individual or a creed. But the Six's tendency towards distrust and suspicion works against any sort of faith in authority and often even presents as anti-authoritarianism. Thus, two opposite pulls exist side by side in the personality of enneatype Six, and will assume different proportions in different individuals, frequently alternating in the same individual.

Some Sixes never find a system or an authority which satisfies their questioning nature. These tend to root themselves in more personal loyalties - loyalties to family, especially children, or to their friends or causes. Sixes, in general, tend to form strong personal bonds. One of the more appealing aspects of the type Six personality is the trueness they can show to those they love. Feeling essentially unsure themselves, they find some comfort in being true to others, in being steadfast. Sixes can show real perseverance when it comes to their personal relationships and they can give of themselves selflessly - without expectation of reward and with little need of special recognition. The loyalty of type Six is something of a two edged sword however, as Sixes are sometimes prone to stand by a friend, partner, job or cause long after it is time to move on.

These various strategies of coping with the core issues of type Six are obviously quite different in their presentation, but they are all manifestations of the same underlying uncertainty and it is the intensity of the energy with which the Six confronts these issues which differentiates type Six from other types who, after all, also want to find something or someone in which to place their trust, something in which to believe. The issues which confront type Six, are then, in some fundamental respect, elemental concerns which confront all human beings. It is the fate of enneatype Six to be forced to address these issues most centrally. The integrity with which this is done, is determined by the extent to which the Six overcomes fear or succumbs to it.

Many Sixes are naturally prone to doubt and self-questioning. In some Sixes, this internal dynamic is projected outwards, and Sixes are notorious for adopting the position of the "devil's advocate." Many Sixes are, thus, prone to questioning and challenging the motives and beliefs of those around them. Sometimes this strategy succeeds in forcing the Six's interlocutor to clarify his or her position or to seek common ground with the Six. Other times however, it only serves to turn the Six's interlocutor into an opponent who feels justified in responding aggressively to what they understandably perceive as an attack. Thus a pattern which is essentially defensive from the point of view of the Six, is often perceived as an assault by those on the receiving end. Sixes who adopt this approach are frequently perplexed by the amount of animosity they arouse. They are far harder on themselves, they reason, so they fail to understand why others are "over reacting." In general, Sixes tend to be very aware of the reactivity of others and considerably less so of their own. As they are being driven by their own inner uncertainty, they tend to be unaware that they are behaving in an aggressive fashion and alienating those whom they might well like to befriend.

The doubting nature of type Six can be turned to good stead when the Six uses it to discover what is wrong or missing. Sixes rightly suspect that there is more going on in any given situation than what is presented on the surface, and they want to know what lies beneath. Sixes frequently have the capacity to detect what is hidden. They ferret out the potential danger in a situation; they intuitively seek the weakness in an argument or the flaws covered by the pleasing exterior. They often have an almost "sixth" sense in this regard. This means that Sixes are typically good trouble shooters, gifted debaters, or the stalwart players who form the defensive line. Sixes tend to feel that if they are aware of all the inherent dangers in a situation, they can arm themselves against them. Once again, this vigilance is essentially a defensive maneuver. On the down side, the tendency to look for problems can lead to unnecessary worrying, catastrophising or, in extreme cases, paranoid ideation. If this tendency to focus on what might go wrong is left unchecked, the Six will experience many needless hours of misery. In addition, others in the Six's life might well experience the Six as being unnecessarily negative.

Sixes are attuned to power relations and to underlying power dynamics. They sense who has power, who wants it, who will use it, who will misuse it, and they are often the ones who sense an imbalance or injustice where others simply see the status quo. As they easily tend to feel like victims themselves, they often identify with the underdog and can even devote themselves to the cause of redressing what they see as injuries done to those without power. These Sixes are, perhaps, union organizers, or feminists, or perhaps even those who defend the rights of the unborn, as, like all the types, Sixes can be found on all ends of the political spectrum. It is not so much that all Sixes are politically motivated, but, as Sixes do tend to be oriented to power dynamics, they often take decisive positions when it comes to social issues or causes.

Sixes are quite sensitive as children and can be seriously wounded by abuses of power visited against them by their parents or teachers. As power abuse against children is almost universal, it is the rare Six who isn't forced to confront core issues head on at a very vulnerable age. Something of the unfairly punishing authority tends to stay with Sixes long after they have moved into adulthood and serves to color all of their subsequent intimate relationships, especially those in which there is a perceived imbalance of power which disfavors the Six.

It is typically at a quite young age then, in response to the illegitimate or insensitive exercise of authority, that Sixes adopt their fundamental strategy for dealing with their underlying anxieties and for handling imbalanced power relationships. Some Sixes adopt a basically phobic approach. Phobic Sixes are generally compliant, affiliative and cooperative. They strive to avoid undue attention and to defuse tension by appearing to be "harmless." They thereby strive to avoid triggering aggression in others. Other Sixes adopt the opposite strategy of dealing with anxieties and become counterphobic, essentially taking a defiant stand against whomever or whatever they find threatening. This is the Six who takes on authority or who adopts a dare devil attitude towards physical danger. Counterphobic Sixes can be aggressive, and frequently adopt a rebellious or anti-authoritarian demeanor. Such Sixes are often unaware of the fear which motivates their actions. For counterphobic Sixes, the inner tension of living with their anxiety is greater than the fear of any external threat they might be facing, so they adopt an oppositional attitude and throw themselves into action. This approach sometimes succeeds in obscuring from the counterphobic Six's line of vision the fear which is actually at the root of their behavior. Consequently, counterphobic Sixes frequently deny being anxious. Interestingly, some phobic Sixes are also unaware of their underlying anxiety, an anxiety which is often readily apparent to others. Because anxiety serves as the backdrop to all their emotional states, some Sixes are unaware of its existence, as they have nothing with which to contrast it.


Sixes with the Five wing generally tend more towards introversion than do those with a Seven wing. They characteristically withdraw under stress and typically have a few trusted friends to whom they can turn in times of trouble. They are often drawn to systems of thought, whether religious, political or philosophical which help them explain their experiences and which provide them with a framework which confers on them some semblance of control and prediction.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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btw...the only thing I don't identify with is the paranoia and passive aggressive stances some 6's take apparently. I rarely think anyone is out to get me or is plotting against me or some such nonsense. That's not how I view others. I don't really "test" my friends either. I don't get that. Yet. When asked if I "trust" so and so. I don't understand those questions. It's not a 100% answer for me yes. If I know someone I know their strengths and weaknesses and if I know someone's weakness I'm not going to trust them in that realm but I will trust them in all other realms. I think of trust as something that is compartmentalized. This makes sense to me yet others are confused by it.

I'm not entirely sure but I feel the 5 wing is just as big as the six for me. I often feel they are directly at odds but I suppose it works.

Anyway...rambling...
 

Halla74

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I am the 7w8 poster child.
If you ponder on what you know of me, and how that relates to your 7w8/8w7 conundrum, I think it might shed some light on it.
You come across as a free spirited bad ass.
That is the essence of 7w8.

A good friend of mine is an ENTP 8w7, and when he walks into a room and has business on his mind everybody shuts the fuck up and sits down and listens.
I walk into a room under similar circumstances and and unite the attendees with a few opening lines, but when I shift the agenda to the work at hand the fun and games are over.

I've shut people down in meetings before, especiallly those having meaningless sidebar conversations, or those who tried to interrupt me before I was done speaking.
I simply look at them and say (to the former) "Well, if you all could stop the chit-chat and listen you'd realize that I just solved your problem for you. Would you like me to repeat myself when you are done with your conversation?" (or to the latter) <Pointing at person and firing off glaring eyes with raised, stern voice "I am not done talking yet."

7w8s are bad asses when we need to be.
8w7s are just in bad ass mode by default, whether warranted/needed or not.
I'm very fond of both types, not that I'm biased or anything. :whistling:
 

EcK

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I'm very fond of both types, not that I'm biased or anything. :whistling:
Nah, you're obviously being objective as only 7w8s and 8w7s can be.
Not that I'd have any personal interest here. I'm and entp, everybody knows we're relativists and stuff.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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I am the 7w8 poster child.
If you ponder on what you know of me, and how that relates to your 7w8/8w7 conundrum, I think it might shed some light on it.
You come across as a free spirited bad ass.
That is the essence of 7w8.

A good friend of mine is an ENTP 8w7, and when he walks into a room and has business on his mind everybody shuts the fuck up and sits down and listens.
I walk into a room under similar circumstances and and unite the attendees with a few opening lines, but when I shift the agenda to the work at hand the fun and games are over.

I've shut people down in meetings before, especiallly those having meaningless sidebar conversations, or those who tried to interrupt me before I was done speaking.
I simply look at them and say (to the former) "Well, if you all could stop the chit-chat and listen you'd realize that I just solved your problem for you. Would you like me to repeat myself when you are done with your conversation?" (or to the latter) <Pointing at person and firing off glaring eyes with raised, stern voice "I am not done talking yet."

7w8s are bad asses when we need to be.
8w7s are just in bad ass mode by default, whether warranted/needed or not.
I'm very fond of both types, not that I'm biased or anything. :whistling:

I identify with 8 more than 7. If I'm not a 5w6 or 6w5 then I'm certain I'm an 8. (but an 8 ISTP? does that happen? I know positively that I am an introvert). I'm pretty sure I'm a counterphobic 6w5. I hate to say it because the description is less than stellar (wtf enneagram!?) but it just makes sense. It's why I get along with 8's so well but I've noticed they have a lot more self confidence than me. Yet we share the same outlook. Especially 8w9's for some reason.

Here's a clip from a posting: What's funny is the part in bold. I have been described myself just as such! (someone recently told me that they couldn't "get me" and that I was "mysterious". I didn't get this at all. I feel I'm very straight forward and told him this. He used the iceberg example! Weird).


Sixes with a 5 wing are generally introverted and somewhat intellectual. When healthy, they often have many realms of interest as well as surprising competencies and skills. May have an original and idiosyncratic point of view. Can be bookish; some are interested in history or feel rooted in the past or related to a long tradition. Also good at predicting the future. May test potential friends for a long time but once you're in, you're in - a friend for life. When more entranced, they may project a willed remoteness. Have a "tip of the iceberg" quality - they show little but you sense hidden dimensions, intensity and activity. Tension between needing to be seen and withdrawing for protection. Might act arrogant or cryptic or cynical when afraid. When phobic, can be diplomatic and say things without saying them. Entranced counterphobics are either cool and loners or argumentative, tending towards violence. Can brood over injustices to them, entertain conspiracy theories, spend time alone building cases. Paranoia in private. May like secretive behind-the-scenes group activity. Sneaky vengeance, passive/aggressive toward others, self-attacking and self-destructive at home.
 

the state i am in

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5w6 is more focused on knowledge as a coping/preparedness/confidence strategy. i've personally known a few 5w6 istps but no 6w5 istps. the 6w5s i've known have all been istj and intj (my dad is a 6w5 istj). i find 5s get more alarmed from disagreement and 6s just get really dismissive. if power is involved than this can drastically fluctuate, as 6s in general seem to have a hyper-responsive to authority. 5s might be more fearful of misunderstanding and get nasty about it, but 6s are more afraid of someone trying to control them. i don't know if any of this makes sense. i might also be completely misdiagnosing this and just pointing out a difference in the istp fear of Fe manipulation of the social reality and the Te itj fear of being controlled strategically through the use of aggressive authority and other tools of power. i've actually seen some horrifyingly bad 5w6 istp-6w5 intj conflicts. the 6w5 was a phobic type tho, otherwise they might have murdered each other. the distrust was amazingly palpable at all times.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Thanks State I Am In.

Your description solidifies the 6w5 for myself. Yet I nodded my head 'yes' in relating to your first sentence. I'm sure I'm an ISTP. As far as control is concerned if I respect the authority then I can definitely play by their rules but if what they're doing doesn't make common sense to me then I do my own thing. I find a way to circumvent them.

Is it possible to have balanced type and wing?
 
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I was reading about 8s and found this thread. I've noticed that the 6w5 description has a surprisingly huge overlap with ISTP descriptions.

To me the most defining and unique trait in 6w5 was "insecurity". An 8 confronts without hesitation in order to avoid very bad undesirable situations while the 6w5 seems to react too late.

My view on being a w8: If someone treats me like an idiot I immediately bring up the issue in an assertive way. If things can't be resolved (or worse: I'm still being treated as an idiot) then I switch from "resolve" mode to "eliminate" mode and someone/something gets "eliminated" or "blacklisted" (not necessarily in a physical way) - fortunately this happens very rarely (EDIT: As Ursa pointed it out, I forgot to add some context: this behaviour is present when I'm forced into the situation - like treated as an idiot by a boss - in any other case I rather switch to ignore mode and don't treat the person seriously). If I'm not being treated like an idiot most people don't even notice my w8. In contrast if you meet a pure 8 you don't even think about trying to treat him/her as an idiot. I hate people who treat me as an idiot - in my opinion they are much worse than opponents/enemies whom you can often respect.

In my experience most ISTPs are attracted by a life in which they have more (total?) freedom and control (like not going to work and do as a boss wishes + a general disrespect of authority). At the same time ISTPs are quite bad at focusing on higher level goals for longer periods that is required to be able to reach the desired freedom and control. Yeah, ISTPs VS boring jobs under supervision... This is a huge conflict and different ISPTs with different backgrounds handle this conflict differently. Some try to accept it, bury their heads into the sand, or find "a good job" that provides an acceptable/bearable balance for the individual in the given situation. Some are more badass, some are less badass when it comes to rulebreaking.

Probably every ISTP has a degree of conflict with authority. Fortunately with some self discipline and smart/hard work it is possible to use ISTP energy spikes to achieve higher level goals and raise the game to the next level. :) A bit of willingness to focus can result in great achievements and self confidence. Increase your freedom (there are various ways to do this) and then you will have much less problems related to "you VS authority". Become self employed, contractor, freelancer, entrepreneur, whatever... Some of these have a steep and difficult learning curve for an ISTP but then provide a more rewarding lifestyle than "a good job". In my opinion this applies not only if you are an individualist. If you can exercise greater control you have much better chances to significantly improve the lives of others around you.

Sixes feel that if they can find "one sure thing," they can quiet their restlessness, and achieve some semblance of much needed "peace of mind."
This reminds me of the never-ending itchiness of some 7s. I've accepted that I won't find the "one sure thing" and I get bored of things quickly. Maybe if I get older, but most probably not. I'll be itchy even in my coffin. :) Till then I'm going to find effective ways to avoid bosses/authority, and effective ways to earn time/money to aid my itchiness. In my opinion what ISTPs need are different kinds of adventures regardless of their flavour/enneagram.

Stamping oneself with an enneagram for life is a bad idea. Approximating the current situation with an enneagram is OK. Circumstances and goals can change. As a result one might get struck with a different (and hopefully better) balance. And anyway, ISTPs are quite universal and come in so many flavours, probably one of the most colourful "species" in MBTI in this regard.
 

Ursa

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My view on being a w8: If someone treats me like an idiot I immediately bring up the issue in an assertive way. If things can't be resolved (or worse: I'm still being treated as an idiot) then I switch from "resolve" mode to "eliminate" mode and someone/something gets "eliminated" or "blacklisted" (not necessarily in a physical way) - fortunately this happens very rarely. If I'm not being treated like an idiot most people don't even notice my w8. In contrast if you meet a pure 8 you don't even think about trying to treat him/her as an idiot. I hate people who treat me as an idiot - in my opinion they are much worse than opponents/enemies whom you can often respect.

What do you mean specifically by you being treated as an idiot - and why do you think this triggers a reaction in you?

8s don't care very much about how others view them. When someone treats me as an idiot - and by that I mean condescension and personal attacks in conversation - I tend to a) continue as normal and allow that person to form more responsible conclusions over time, b) give them the choice to either shape up or lose access to me or c) decide to walk away because I don't have time to waste on that attitude. I don't usually feel the need to justify or defend myself to people who take that attitude with me. 8s are assertive but not reactive in this way; the "how dare you" type of reaction to disrespect seems more counter-phobic 6 to me.

But when treating me as an idiot entails an authority demoting me, relocating me, abrogating my rights and privileges or otherwise relegating me to a lower rung in the hierarchy (e.g. triangulating, using smear campaigns to isolate me and diminish my influence), I have massive problems with that - and make it a point to make that their massive problem too, because 8s absolutely hate to lose autonomy and control.
 
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8s don't care very much about how others view them. When someone treats me as an idiot - and by that I mean condescension and personal attacks in conversation - I tend to a) continue as normal and allow that person to form more responsible conclusions over time, b) give them the choice to either shape up or lose access to me or c) decide to walk away because I don't have time to waste on that attitude. I don't usually feel the need to justify or defend myself to people who take that attitude with me. 8s are assertive but not reactive in this way; the "how dare you" type of reaction to disrespect seems more counter-phobic 6 to me.

But when treating me as an idiot entails an authority demoting me, relocating me, abrogating my rights and privileges or otherwise relegating me to a lower rung in the hierarchy (e.g. triangulating, using smear campaigns to isolate me and diminish my influence), I have massive problems with that - and make it a point to make that their massive problem too, because 8s absolutely hate to lose autonomy and control.
Pretty much the same for me. I don't care what others think about me, it's their business. When I was thinking about "being treated as an idiot" I recalled some bad memories about conflicts with bosses, unbearable colleagues and some business partners. In business it is usually much more bearable because you are equal partners and you simply walk away from an idiot. However in case of "a job" where you are in a subordinate position it is more difficult. The younger me suffered from it a lot, the mercenary me was super effective at eliminating these bosses/colleagues along with their stupidity. I wasn't afraid to stand up for myself, I was right, cornered them, and won every single argument in situations like that. They never tried it again. The ridiculous thing is that I was very good at my area of expertise and no-one wanted to fire me, and usually wanted to keep me there when I decided to leave. And I left jobs quite frequently as a 7. :-D

And anyway, I don't like being handled as a pet that is quite popular in corporate environments.

I forgot to add that in many cases you can forge a much better relationship with you boss if you can stand up for yourself. For some reason many managers and leaders think that people have to be handled as pets but quite a few of them allow you to opt out from this treatment so usually it wasn't a huge fight. There were however some serious ones. :-D

EDIT: I forgot to answer your actual question in the first line of your post.

What do you mean specifically by you being treated as an idiot - and why do you think this triggers a reaction in you?
I always treated my relationship with other companies as business (including my normal jobs, not only contracts). It was exchanging a lot of my valuable time for a small amount of money. If they demanded more (like involvement in stupid politics and idiot struggles between career ladder climbers who want to use you, feeling "love" towards their product or "enthusiasm" towards extremely boring tasks, etc...) then they set themselves up for disappointment. The last thing I wanted was someone to tell me what to feel and when. This business is about exchanging my time and using my technical expertise for money - nothing else.

In a business relationship I demand respect. If there is no respect then goodbye. In most cases I simply clarified them about the situation as described above (behind closed doors, not in a dogfight with a stupid manager in front of employees) and they were fine with that. I have a very objective cold & efficient business like style when it comes to these kind of conversations. Later as a contractor/consultant it was much simpler achieve my goals - but in my opinion the best is being isolated from companies where they want "team players" to form super ineffective teams.
 

ARET45

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
30
MBTI Type
INxP
Enneagram
4w5
I realize I am one of these two. Problem is whenever I take an online test I tie with these very highly. I resonate a lot with eight internally but on the outside I would say 7 fits. I test as a 5 frequently (last time I took the test I got 5w6. I get 8 for superficial tests a lot) but seven and eight resonate more with me that 5w6 does when I read the description.

So I'm here to ask people of each of those types to describe themselves. I have searched online and I can't place a difference between the two types and wings.

It's useful to consider the head triad vs the gut triad. The head triad is motivated by the desire to prevent against future problems (fear/anxiety), while the gut triad is interested in controlling the environment for a sense of justice/peace (anger/rage).
 
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