As an INFJ, what's my Enneagram?

[Hopelandic]

Not 4. Frankly I think most (though by no means all) self-reported INFJ 4s are either not really 4, or not INFJ (likely the latter). 4 is a very Fi type.

Per your description, I think you're most likely a 2w1, though you could be 1w2 or 9w1.

Wrong. Four is not an "fi" type.

A lot of infjs' are 4w3s'. I don't see how the motivations of fours don't lend theirselves to the infj type.


To the OP: I've pretty much been one-ish all my life, and only feel like a four when I'm unhealthy. I'm a 4w3. Only one person has been able to pick me out as a four, and she is very knowledgeable in the enneagram. My parents and family asserted I was a one.

Don't be too fixed on four as needing to be unique. Over concern with genuineness (of self, feelings, representation) can very much be a four pursuit. I have a lot of problems with unhealthy threes (and they me) because I don't buy into their image and they don't like when I try and get the truth out of them.

Fours go to 2 in stress. I don't get clingy, but I start over focusing on helping people a lot. A four that identifies as a two is often disintegrating.

 

[Aleksei]

Just to clarify, are you suggesting I'm an INFJ 2w1 or only that I'm 2w1?

I have no idea if you're INFJ or not, but I have no reason to suspect you're not.

 

[Chloe]

there's no so significant correlation between INFJ and any enneagram types; they can be 1,9,4,3,6,5, and even 7.

 

[Aleksei]

That's because a lot of "INFJs" are really INTJ (I cannot stress enough how emotional INTJs can get), ISFP or even INFP. I'd say actual INFJs are most likely to be 1, 9, 2, 6, 5 or 3.

But of course any MBTI type can correlate to any Enneagram type. INFJs can be 7 or even 8, but they'd be really goddamn weird.

 

[Chloe]

That's because a lot of "INFJs" are really INTJ (I cannot stress enough how emotional INTJs can get), ISFP or even INFP. I'd say actual INFJs are most likely to be 1, 9, 2, 6, 5 or 3.

we actually said [almost] the same thing.

But of course any MBTI type can correlate to any Enneagram type. INFJs can be 7 or even 8, but they'd be really goddamn weird.

well... i dont think INFJ 7 would be weird... it'd be very enthusiastic INFJ. probably appearing like eNFp. edcoaching is INFJ 7, she doesnt seem weird.

and each MBTI type can be each E type, but in reality some combos are very rare, so INFPs are usually 4s,9s, and 5s. but INFJs dont correlate so high with any type.

 

[Aleksei]

Actually, between the lines I was saying INFJ =/= 4.

 

[Aleksei]

Wrong. Four is not an "fi" type.

A lot of infjs' are 4w3s'. I don't see how the motivations of fours don't lend theirselves to the infj type.

I'm not saying INFJs can't be four, but I think four is a far rarer E-type for INFJs than it appears, because it conflicts with Fe.

Enneagram Four motivations: Authenticity, uniqueness, individuality.

Fe perspective: Values and ethics derived through consensus. Going along with what those you feel emotionally connected to consider important.

 

[Chloe]

^^ so you are saying that each mbti can be each e-type, and then you are making case for infj and 4 is rare combo because Fe doesnt go with 4.
You are contradicting yourself


if not so many INFJs are 4s, because Fe and 4 are not so much alike, then it'd be opposite case and INFJs would under-type as 4, not overtype as 4.

 

[Aleksei]

^^ so you are saying that each mbti can be each e-type, and then you are making case for infj and 4 is rare combo because Fe doesnt go with 4.
You are contradicting yourself

What I'm saying is that basically enneagram four motivations and Fe perspectives are not very compatible, but given that they're not the same metric they don't automatically cancel each other out. It just means they shouldn't be that common.

if not so many INFJs are 4s, because Fe and 4 are not so much alike, then it'd be opposite case and INFJs would under-type as 4, not overtype as 4.

I don't think they're overtyping as 4. I think they're overtyping as INFJ. Basically, I have reason to suspect that the majority of self-reported INFJ 4s are actually INTJ.

 

[Chloe]

I don't think they're overtyping as 4. I think they're overtyping as INFJ. Basically, I have reason to suspect that the majority of self-reported INFJ 4s are actually INTJ.

yeah that i might agree, many T types who are 4s mistype as Fs.

before knowing much about MBTI i thought my mom is ISFP, but she's ISTJ and 4.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Enneagram Four motivations: Authenticity, uniqueness, individuality.

Enneagram is not about you motivations, it's about your attention mode, the way you deal with pain and with the human condition as a general rule. Peoples on the Image Triad, where are 2, 3 and 4 deal with pain by seeking ressurance in love, in their image, in self-esteem. And there's three favoured ways to use each centers: to think "I don't need/feel anything", to think "I feel good" and to think "I feel bad".

2s use the Image/Feeling center to think "I dont need/feel anything", they seek reassurance in the love of peoples, to meet their need, their consideration, their affection, at the point that they are selfless and forget their own needs.

3s use the Image/Feeling centre to think "I feel good". They are focused on their challenges, pride, glory and success, and are confident in their ability to achieve it.

4s use the Image/Feeling cenre to think "I feel bad". While 2s forget their own needs, while 3s are focused on what they have and their success, 4s are focused on what they have not. They are focused on what peoples have and that they have not, what they lack. And they are seeking for what they lack in every situations, and also how their image could be different, how their feelings, romantic relationships could be more intense. So, this is because of that attention mode that they are melancholic and always focuses on a way to make their image more diffrent, more intense, more unique, mor authentic. Plus, every E types have a hard time to take distance with their coping ressources, so 4s have a hard time to take distance with their melancholy that they often considered as way to make their life more interesting, to feel more intense feelings, wich are more authentic than a simple happiness. At the same time, they see other peoples who seem pretty content with that simple happiness, and then, they feel that they lack something, but since they get that simple happiness, they are again focused on what they have not, and seek something original, dramatic, whatever wich seem always more attractivce than what they have.

So, yes, 4s are driven for authenticity, uniqueness, etc, but the enneagram system don't watch the egg instead of watching the hen like you do, it explain that behaviors of the 4 are coping ressources and that they are primary seeking for love, affection, image, and so, that can totally match with the jugian function Fe.

Anyway your conceptions about Fe and Fi seem wrong. Fi is not more concerned with authenticity than Fe, and Fe is not more concerned with ethic and cooperation than Fi.

 

[lane777]

Enneagram is not about you motivations, it's about your attention mode, the way you deal with pain and with the human condition as a general rule. Peoples on the Image Triad, where are 2, 3 and 4 deal with pain by seeking ressurance in love, in their image, in self-esteem. And there's three favoured ways to use each centers: to think "I don't need/feel anything", to think "I feel good" and to think "I feel bad".

2s use the Image/Feeling center to think "I dont need/feel anything", they seek reassurance in the love of peoples, to meet their need, their consideration, their affection, at the point that they are selfless and forget their own needs.

3s use the Image/Feeling centre to think "I feel good". They are focused on their challenges, pride, glory and success, and are confident in their ability to achieve it.

4s use the Image/Feeling cenre to think "I feel bad". While 2s forget their own needs, while 3s are focused on what they have and their success, 4s are focused on what they have not. They are focused on what peoples have and that they have not, what they lack. And they are seeking for what they lack in every situations, and also how their image could be different, how their feelings, romantic relationships could be more intense. So, this is because of that attention mode that they are melancholic and always focuses on a way to make their image more diffrent, more intense, more unique, mor authentic. Plus, every E types have a hard time to take distance with their coping ressources, so 4s have a hard time to take distance with their melancholy that they often considered as way to make their life more interesting, to feel more intense feelings, wich are more authentic than a simple happiness. At the same time, they see other peoples who seem pretty content with that simple happiness, and then, they feel that they lack something, but since they get that simple happiness, they are again focused on what they have not, and seek something original, dramatic, whatever wich seem always more attractivce than what they have.

So, yes, 4s are driven for authenticity, uniqueness, etc, but the enneagram system don't watch the egg instead of watching the hen like you do, it explain that behaviors of the 4 are coping ressources and that they are primary seeking for love, affection, image, and so, that can totally match with the jugian function Fe.

Anyway your conceptions about Fe and Fi seem wrong. Fi is not more concerned with authenticity than Fe, and Fe is not more concerned with ethic and cooperation than Fi.

The bolded really resonates with me. I only attributed my melancholy to negative thinking, unaware that not being content with the present contributes as well (I only saw it as dreaming, or healthy goals).

Additionally, I'm continually looking forward to what I will obtain or could have, but not necessarily coveting another's possessions, as the old proverb goes - which was my understanding of envy. How ignorant of me So thanks.