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Enneagram types correlating with instincts

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I've noticed that the enneagram types' motivations seem to correlate and de-correlate with the instincts. 4's are the weirdos for some reason, the wing really seems to change 4's a lot in this regard. Here's what I'm thinking-

1-

sp- Positive
so- Neutral
sx- Negative

2-

sp- Negative
so- Positive
sx- Neutral

3-

sp- Negative
so- Neutral
sx- Positive

4w3-

sp- Negative
so- Positive
sx- Neutral

4w5-

sp-Positive
so- Negative
sx- Neutral

5-

sp- Positive
so- Neutral
sx- Negative

6-

sp- Neutral
so- Positive
sx- Negative

7-

sp- Negative
so- Neutral
sx- Positive

8-

sp- Neutral
so- Negative
sx- Positive

9-

sp- Positive
so- Negative
sx- Positive

Feel free to correct me. This has just been a thought in my head for a while, and this is by no means how it really is.

And also, THESE AREN'T SET CORRELATIONS. Just what instincts seem "natural" for the types in particular.

What do you think? Do you think the wings of the other types affect it a lot too?
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
What do you mean by negative/positive/neutral?

Every type is motivated by all of them so I'm not sure how you see it playing out.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What do you mean by negative/positive/neutral?

Every type is motivated by all of them so I'm not sure how you see it playing out.

Well positive means that it correlates with the type, neutral means well, neutral, and negative means it de correlates. Like with 7's, 7's seem to be correlated to sx because they are an aggressive type (openly try to get what their ego wants). They are always like "I want to do this" "I want to try this new thing" etc.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,491
I think it's with regards to clashing with or intensifying the primary fixation.

To use myself as an example, being an sx negatively clashes with my primary 5 fixation of being independently competent and maintaining a detached perspective, as I instinctively feel a need to forge extremely intimate and potent connections. Whereas if I were an sp, the instinctive need for autonomy and independence aligns with the 5 fixation above.

I think?
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think it's with regards to clashing with or intensifying the primary fixation.

To use myself as an example, being an sx negatively clashes with my primary 5 fixation of being independently competent and maintaining a detached perspective, as I instinctively feel a need to forge extremely intimate and potent connections. Whereas if I were an sp, the instinctive need for autonomy and independence aligns with the 5 fixation above.

I think?

Yeah something like that.

5's de correlate with sx because also they want to remain emotionally detached, and seem to be naturally uncomfortable with close relationships with people. They also try to cut their needs and wants.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Well positive means that it correlates with the type, neutral means well, neutral, and negative means it de correlates. Like with 7's, 7's seem to be correlated to sx because they are an aggressive type (openly try to get what their ego wants). They are always like "I want to do this" "I want to try this new thing" etc.

Ahhh, I was going somewhere else entirely, in that case I agree with sp being negatively correlated with type 7.

Not so sure about sx being positive and so being neutral though, I'd be inclined to have them the other way around. I don't see 7 as aggressive, even with a 8 wing, the motivation is still fun and excitement.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
is it okay if i ask this here?

was wondering if this test was relatively accurate in your opinion.
http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/variant.pl

and...i thought i was sx/so...but maybe i am sx/sp like this says...hmm
opinion?

Sexual |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 86%
Social ||||||||| 26%
Self Preservation ||||||||||||||| 42%
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Ahhh, I was going somewhere else entirely, in that case I agree with sp being negatively correlated with type 7.

Not so sure about sx being positive and so being neutral though, I'd be inclined to have them the other way around. I don't see 7 as aggressive, even with a 8 wing, the motivation is still fun and excitement.

i take it to mean aggressively in seek of fun and excitement tho....more assertive...you know?
 

Xenon

(blankpages)
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
832
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
I'm sure there are correlations. I did observe the sx-doms thread had quite a few fives though, especially 5w4. And just browsing some of these enneagram threads today, I've read a number of 5s discussing about how they crave learning about people and understanding them in an intimate way. I'd think a lot of types that tend to be introverts would crave these deep one-on-one connections.

I don't think each type would have one positive, one negative and one neutral. It's probably messier than that.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
i take it to mean aggressively in seek of fun and excitement tho....more assertive...you know?

To me so still seems most applicable, so/sx to be specific. It's lighter, less serious, more high energy, more fun and group focused.

I can see the point of sx sevens focusing on intense experiences and that being ultra-typical of seven behaviour. Iunno, maybe the mix of sx and so are positively correlated with seven while any sp mix isn't?
 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
2,910
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
This makes sense. I know being a 4w5 so/sp is pretty strange and contradictory. But it does explain a lot about my behaviour.

Are you thinking of expanding on this theory BlackCat, about how this stuff might manifest etc?
 

Rail Tracer

Freaking Ratchet
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
3,031
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
9-

sp- Positive
so- Negative
sx- Positive

What do you think? Do you think the wings of the other types affect it a lot too?

Well the descriptions for sx variants for type 9 seems kind of...off? Compare the sx description for 8 sx to 9 sx as an example.

Sexual/Self-pres

This subtype is a very charismatic. They have a very assertive energy and they demand attention. The lust of the Eight combines with the sexual instinct to make one of the most fiery of the combinations of all of the enneatypes, especially if Seven is the dominant wing. Sexual/self-pres Eights aren’t afraid to tell you what they think. The "can do" attitude that the other subtypes have is now intertwined with an outward passionate storm of energy. The sexual/self-pres Eight will be similar to the self-pres/sex Eight with respect to interests and attachment to close friends and family, but the intensity level is augmented. Since the sexual instinct is first, these Eights usually don't let an opportunity pass by to connect with those they find interesting. They can sense the power in any situation and they like to challenge people. They can enjoy making others react to them, keeping others on their toes, to find out what makes them tick. They are likely to use humor to accomplish this. When sex/self-pres Eights are unbalanced, they are very quick to anger and have a difficult time controlling their impulses.

Sexual/Social

This subtype of Eight manifests as the alpha male and alpha female. They demand everyone's attention, and usually get it. They can be very charismatic. The assertive energy of the Eight combines with the assertive energy of the sexual instinct. With the self-preservational instinct least developed, this subtype has a lot of extroverted energy. This type isn’t afraid to go after what they want in life. The fixation on lust and the emphasis on control combine with great intensisty. At times, it’s almost as if their energy gets ahead of them, which can cause problems. They often have a vision of the future, but they have their blind spots too. They can harness a tremendous amount of energy for change, but at the same time be unaware of the fallout they might encounter because of their sometimes excessive self-assertion.

It does kind of sound very 8 like in description. But when you start reading the description of 9 sx

Sexual/Self-pres


The energy of the sexual instinct is at odds with the dominant type Nine energy and makes for a conflicted subtype. These Nines can appear to have a stronger connection to Three, for this reason. The assertive fiery energy engages in a constant push-pull with the calm peace-seeking energy of the Nine. This subtype can have an intense relationship with their environment. They are often drawn to solo sports or to an active engagement with nature that involves some risk and exertion. These Nines are drawn to peak experiences. They might enjoy outdoor solo sports or engaging in nature by way of hiking, rock climbing etc.

With the social instinct last in the stacking, there can be an on/off quality when it comes to relating and these Nines are often somewhat moodier than the other subtypes. As with the self-pres/sexual, this subtype might not engage socially with the same smoothness as other subtypes of Nine. They seem to go towards others in a staccato fashion - they connect in bursts, then withdraw.

When it comes to intimate relationships, this subtype can be needy. The merging of the Nine combines with the intensity of the sexual instinct to create a subtype that will always be in danger of losing themselves in a relationship. Their boundaries for themselves and their partner can become blurred which can lead to conflicts. This subtype might have a hard time judging clearly the degree to which they have merged.

Sexual/Social


This subtype of Nine may appear least like a stereotypical Nine because the outward sexual and social energies obscure some of the withdrawing and "zoning out" tendencies of the Nine. These Nines are the most connected and assertive of the subtypes of Nine, especially when it comes to relationships. There is still some internal struggle, as with the sexual/self-pres, but overall there is less of a tendency to withdraw. With the self-pres instinct last, this subtype can neglect self-preservational needs in favor of the intensity of their sexual instinct's pursuits. Individuals of this subtype could easily be mistaken for the dominant wing, because the sexual energy tends to flow in a manner similar to the energy of the wing. A Nine with a One wing would therefore appear more One-like and a Nine with Eight might be mistaken for an Eight.

The central conflict for these Nines will still be in the realm of close intimate relationships and these Nines will have many of the same issues and challenges as the sexual/self-pres Nines.

It starts talking about the most conflicted type or the least like a stereotypical 9. I'm a sx myself, but that description sounds strange for a 9 don't you think so?
 

21%

You have a choice!
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
3,224
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Yes, I think your instinctual variants play a huge part in how your E-type manifests itself.

I'm 4w5 sp/sx, and I think the leading sp sorts of tames my 4-ness a lot. I mean, if I were sx/sp, I'd be a lot more dramatic and emotional. I always feel this push-pull energy between 4 and 5, and sp and sx, which is both fun and frustrating at the same time.
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well, I think you list of correlation is valuable only in the sense that peoples of diferents enneagram identify the most, but not as how they truly are. Plus, there's a sort of current misconception about how different instincts are:Sx is assertive, Sp is withdrawing, So is compliant, but this is not the fundamental concerns of different instincts. The fundamental concerns of diferents instincts are basically:

Sx= I need intensity, deep connections in my one-to-one relationships

So= I need to connect with a significant larger social sphere

Sp= I need my food on the table

So, I understand why Sx tend to be assertive and why So tend to be compliant. So, compliant types like 1, 2, phobic 6 may tend strongly to identify with So. Assertive types 3, 7 and 8 may tend strongly to identify with Sx because it's associate more with assertivity than with concern about one-to-one relationship and 5 and 9 tend strongly to identify with Sp because it's associate more with "withdrawing" than with concern about safety and practicality. And I think it's often innacurate.

Problematic of instincts can't be separated from the dominant fixation of the enneatype and all these stuff about assertive, withdrawn, etc, are not that simple. Self-pres peoples are often very, very assertive and independent. It can be true for sef-pres 3. Self-pres 2 and self-pres 4 are very combative and assertive, and more ofen of the 3 wing. Self-pres 7 are consumate materialistic and fun lover, usually true party animals with lots of friends. Self-pres 8 are not less assertive than other 8. For the social instinct, Social 2 and 3 are usually very assertive, achieve fame prestige.

Social 4, 5 (especially of the 4 wing), counterphobic 6, 7, 8 are often totally anti-social. Social 4 are often withdrawing, and not compliant, characterised by a strong social shame who drive them to hide, many 4s are actually of the social subtype. Social 9s are often withdrawing, because they fit in, but are disengaged at the same time.

And for the assertivity of the Sx, sexual 5 are'nt often assertive, they are the most part of the time withdrawing and try to seek intimacy from time to time. For 9, the concept of instincts is "in wich territory are they self-forgetting of they need and narcotize". Self-pres 9 narcotize by consumptions of food and material things, social 9 narcotize by merging with groups, and sexual 9 narcotize by forming union with a mate. The sexual instinct is about one-to-one relationship, with an aspiration to assertivity, wich can be in conflict with the dominant fixation, so, sexual 9s are often not assertive at all, prefering to stay cuddle up with their mate watching movies at a saturday night than be outgoing and seek for a large rocking party.

He would seek for intensity if he took distance with his doiminant fixation. Sexual 7s, them, are often very intense, but they can be afraid of commitment and fear to satisfy their desire for a deep connection with a significant other. But if the 7 take distance with his fixation about keeping options opened, it is possible.

So, I think that list of correlation is a shit and can't be taken seriously. Actually, the most part of the time, peoples are self-pres first, because it's the area where they feel, as a geral rule, the stronger need to survive, whatever what their enneatype is.
 

Such Irony

Honor Thy Inferior
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
5,059
MBTI Type
INtp
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I've also thought about instinct/enneagram correlations and here's my thoughts.


1-
sp- Positive
so- Positive, ones often have social issues they feel strongly about and are often concerned with social appropriateness
sx- Negative

2-

sp- Negative
so- Positive
sx- Positive, some twos are rather seductive

3-

sp- Negative
so- Positive. I think the 'stereotypical' social climber is a three
sx- Neutral

4w3-

sp- Negative
so- Positive
sx- Neutral

4w5-

sp-Positive
so- Negative
sx- Positive

5-

sp- Positive
so- Negative (I'm a social five and I feel like an oxymoron)
sx- Negative

Note: Most social fives are 5w6; most sexual fives are 5w4

6 (phobic)

sp- Positive
so- Positive
sx- Negative

So much variation in sixes. I think the sx 6s are more likely to be counterphobic than the other two subtypes.

7-

sp- Negative
so- Neutral
sx- Positive

8-

sp- Neutral
so- Negative
sx- Positive

9-

sp- Positive
so- Neutral
sx- Neutral
 

Rebe

New member
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,431
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4sop
This makes sense. I know being a 4w5 so/sp is pretty strange and contradictory. But it does explain a lot about my behaviour.

Are you thinking of expanding on this theory BlackCat, about how this stuff might manifest etc?

It is strange and contradictory but it also gives me a very nice balance and motivation. My SO pushes me to actually fulfill my deeply held values and ideals and be somewhat reasonable about accomplishing it in the external, larger environment. I dislike the idea of having my entire life be about one person or even myself. It's got to be involve the whole world. My SP protects me and makes me very self-sufficient and self-reliable. My SX is last, which is good because the INFP 4 in me makes me very passionate and emotional as it is. I can't handle any more 'fire and flames'. It works very well for me, although the 'social shame' runs quite deep.

I think you're the only one who's identical to me, SKross. :hifive:

So...I don't know about this positive/negative/neutral theory. The more contradictory it is, the more it provides the person a wider sample, pushes people out of their comfort zones, make them ... more complex and interesting. It allows them to be sometimes the polar opposite of what their dom function naturally points to.
 

lane777

nevermore
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
635
Yes, I think your instinctual variants play a huge part in how your E-type manifests itself.

I'm 4w5 sp/sx, and I think the leading sp sorts of tames my 4-ness a lot. I mean, if I were sx/sp, I'd be a lot more dramatic and emotional. I always feel this push-pull energy between 4 and 5, and sp and sx, which is both fun and frustrating at the same time.

I recently figured out that I'm probably 4w5 sp/sx. What your saying would explain why everyone including myself thought I was a 9w1 for the longest time.
 

CrystalViolet

lab rat extraordinaire
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
2,152
MBTI Type
XNFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well, being an INFP 5w4 sx/sp is a little bit of mind fuck. I feel a real push and pull toward people.
 

hilo

New member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
186
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9 sx
is it okay if i ask this here?

was wondering if this test was relatively accurate in your opinion.
http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/variant.pl

and...i thought i was sx/so...but maybe i am sx/sp like this says...hmm
opinion?

Sexual |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 86%
Social ||||||||| 26%
Self Preservation ||||||||||||||| 42%

Probably should start a new thread, but I took that test and it came out opposite of what I think I am... I'm thinking my I-ness and e-9ness trumped whatever signal there is:


Sexual |||||||||||||||||| 58%
Social ||||||||||||||||||||| 62%
Self Preservation ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%


I'm NOT an Sp-dom, not at all. I go back and forth on whether I could be sx/so or so/sx though.

That test had a lot of "alone time" questions - I think introverts are going to feel strongly about that, but there are still introverted Sx! And the sx-related questions seemed a bit too intense. Sometimes Sx is about a deep connection, feeling understood - not necessarily "intimacy" which I think has a sexual connotation.
 

Random Ness

New member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
270
:eek: But doesn't self-preservation go really well with 6? 6 is about foreseeing and preparing, and self-preservation is about preparing, too...
 
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