# Thread: The big ol' bowl of Enneagram

1. Originally Posted by Eric B
In my scheme, the straight mouth or eyes represented "moderation", since their position was basically "inbetween" that of happy or sad. In yours, and the Horney Scales used by Chou and others (Away/Against/Toward), I knew the "middle" point was not "moderate, and that was one major difference with the FIRO-based system. So yes, it is more of a triangular scale. I guess passive/evasive or detached would fit those facial features, even though they're not "moderate" inbetween those other points you mentioned.

It's kind of hard to picture a matrix where the factors are two dimensional rather than one dimensional. That would technically be a four dimensional system, except that the two dimensions of the factors are based on a 60 degree angle instead of right angles.
You are right about it being two-dimensional. I am of the strong opinion that any time that we can find three variations, there are actually four, because all things are compositions of boolean variables. However, following such a system would either inflate the number of possible types to sixteen, or, when cutting it down to two binary variables or one quadrinary variable(the same thing really) would make the number of types only four. While either way would be more true to the binary nature of the world, it is a change too radical and work too tedious for me to have decided upon (however, the relation to the number of MB types [16] and the number of Temperaments [4] is rather intriguing).

Originally Posted by Eric B
Still, I don't fully know what some of those mean. The 9 is "projective" instead of "detached"?
The uncertainty is understandable, since as I had said, the names I chose for these modes were totally ad hoc and not necessarily very accurate.

What I was trying to say is that Nines are geared toward showing and seeing the feelings they want to show and feel. They have a problem with accepting ugly emotions, which gives way to some of their characteristic negative tendencies: Denial, deference, procrastination, poor resolve, and passive-aggression. (As would be expected, some of these qualities are shared by the other two "projective" types).

Compare with its "detached" counter-part, the Five. The five is not nearly as afraid of unpleasant matters. Such sensitivities are played down. In fact, Fives have a tendency to be biting people with little concern over controversy. They are often cynics. It is certainly very different from the Nine, who sit on clouds and never rock boats (well... usually).

I would be more than happy to have suggestions for better names to give these traits, if any ever come to you.

Originally Posted by dissonance
can you guys explain what the variables are that you're talking about?
Originally Posted by Eric B
The variables Magic is referring to I believe are the ones that he earlier printed, and I just copied in small type, with the descriptions of the mouth and eyes.
Indeed, I was referring to the variables I elaborated in my post a few pages back.

Originally Posted by Eric B
the ones I use are "expressive" and "responsive" behavior, which both can be low, moderate or high. These scales measure stuff like extroversion/introversion or directing/informing. We're discussing how to measure the Enneagtram types by the respective scales. My framework thus gives possible correlations between MBTI and Enneagram. Magic's, I'm not sure, as I don't understand those facets yet, or if he maps them to the 16 types.
I will concede that my system was designed for no such correlation with the MBTI, and is not likely to work well for one(though any attempt to correlate the two is hampered by the conflict of odds and evens). I was trying to dissect the Eneagram in its own right. In terms of looking to another system, I was inspired by the Instinctual Variants, and set out to boil down the qualities of the core Enneagram types in a similar manner. In doing so, I intended to also demonstrate that the Instincts were not an awkward add-on to the Enneagram, but actually a perfectly natural fit.

2. I studied Enneagram a little bit.
I think 3w4 makes the most sense.
I'm not sure whether I'm an sp/so or so/sp.. the Sexual Three description seems so foreign to me while I can strongly relate to the SP & SO ones.

If I happened to be a 5 (which is a possibility) I would definitely be so/sx.

Can ENTP's be 5's- if they were profoundly interested in knowledge as long as so and sx were dominant?

3. Originally Posted by Mondo
Can ENTP's be 5's- if they were profoundly interested in knowledge as long as so and sx were dominant?
It's always possible. However, Fives are usually so introverted that it would be a little suprising. Maybe if you were weak on the E.

4. Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan
It's always possible. However, Fives are usually so introverted that it would be a little suprising. Maybe if you were weak on the E.
I went on the Enneagram Institute discussion board some time ago.
The consensus seemed to be that I am a 5w6, if I am, I would definitely be social/sexual.

5. I wonder what my enneagram type is?

5 and 8 have always been suggested.

6. What's a wing?

7. Magic Periferan -- analyze mine...I don't get it!

8. Originally Posted by Lambchop
What's a wing?
I believe it is explained in one of the links I put up, but I can give you a quick explanation.

In the traditional system, a wing is a sort of secondary type that colors your primary type. The wing is always one of the two numbers "adjacent" to the number of your primary type. So, for example, let's say you were a 3. The two numbers next to that are 2 and 4. So those are the two types that could be your wing. The one that is the wing is whichever of the two scores higher on a test, basically. So, if you were a 3, depending on how you scored, you could be a 3w2 or a 3w4. While they both fit qualities of a 3, they are slightly different from each other, in ways that are more like they other type that serves as their wing. So the 3w2 would be more supportive and interested in social harmony than the 3w4, while the 3w4 would be more independent and aesthetically minded than the 3w2. You follow?

For the record, I personally think the whole traditional wing concept is a load of horse feathers. That is one of the reasons why I worked on the alternative version that I linked to in the ISFJ enneagram thread.

Originally Posted by Lambchop
Magic Periferan -- analyze mine...I don't get it!
Here's what I've got from what you posted in the ISFJ thread.
Your test score would make you a 1w2 in the traditional system. You can get some information on what that means in these links:
one with two wing
http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennprimer/fineenn9styls1.html#anchor101902
Lifexplore - Personality, Myers-Briggs, Enneagram, Tests, Type Descriptions, More

And I advise that you ignore what that particular test said about your variant. It's terrible at assigning those, because it goes about it all wrong.

Thanks for your help -- so sweet!!

10. Originally Posted by Lambchop