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My Wings (not the flying kind)

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
So, Enneagram experts, tell me about wings. Do they matter? Is everyone supposed to have one? If you don't have a strong preference for either wing what does that mean? Hell, what does the wing mean in the first place?

I ask because I'm slowly coming around to the idea that I am most likely a Seven, however based on tests that I've done as honestly as I can over the past year my results go in order of: 7 -> 3 -> 9 -> 5 -> 8 -> 4 -> 1 -> 2 -> 6 with 7 always being first, 6 usually being last and no strong preference for 8.

I never really followed Spongie and Evan's theory, I'm curious as to what they, or other's who have looked into the Enneagram in depth can tell me about wings and my results :)

Also, two general questions: Is Enneagram like MBTI in that you don't change types we just develop and, is it easy to continually mistype with online tests like MBTI tests (I score as INTP in most online MBTI tests but identify as ENTP).
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Hah! You know, with all the enneagram threads you need to be shifting around, you think you'd have found the information you were looking for. Most of what anyone could tell you is in the two threads that have been stickied here now. About the original system anyway.

Maybe you just didn't feel like looking through it all. :tongue:

So, Enneagram experts, tell me about wings. Do they matter? Is everyone supposed to have one? If you don't have a strong preference for either wing what does that mean? Hell, what does the wing mean in the first place?

In a nutshell, wings are just added distinction. They essentially turned 9 types into 18 types, creating a more gradual shift around the wheel, of sorts.
Everyone is supposed to have wings. Sometimes people with balanced wings are mentioned, but I've never seen them given more than a passing though. It seems that most people are assumed to have a dominant wing (which makes sense, because balance is truly rare in all things) and as such are directed to one of the winged profiles.

I ask because I'm slowly coming around to the idea that I am most likely a Seven, however based on tests that I've done as honestly as I can over the past year my results go in order of: 7 -> 3 -> 9 -> 5 -> 8 -> 4 -> 1 -> 2 -> 6 with 7 always being first, 6 usually being last and no strong preference for 8.

All the instructions I've ever read about the Enneagram would say that your wing is 8 then. It doesn't matter how low it is, all that matters is that it is the highest of the two types "adjacent" to your primary type. If that seems like a stretch to you, then you see one little reason for me and Evan's system.

I never really followed Spongie and Evan's theory, I'm curious as to what they, or other's who have looked into the Enneagram in depth can tell me about wings and my results :)

Well, if you want, you can look at the thread again. The 3rd post is where talk of wings start. The whole system is pretty markedly different though and it seems to have discomforted a number of Enneagram enthusiasts.


Also, two general questions: Is Enneagram like MBTI in that you don't change types we just develop and, is it easy to continually mistype with online tests like MBTI tests (I score as INTP in most online MBTI tests but identify as ENTP).

Both of those questions are hard to answer at the core of all typology. I personally think that whenever anyone says your type cannot change (in any system) they are speaking beyond their knowledge. Anyhow, it seems to be that it's giving the system too much credit, really reifying it, you know? It's just a descriptor. Considering that, it seems to be that it should be subject to change.

And with mystyping, the question is who you trust. Maybe the tests are wrong, or you're wrong, or the casual analysts of you are wrong. A dreadful lack of standardization makes it hard to tell. The actual answer is flatly that you can be repeatedly mistyped with Enneagram tests (and even more by other people :whistling:). As usual, the best I can do here is tell you to read the information very thoroughly and then try to type yourself.

Alas, it would be great of some serious psychometricians actually made something for of one of these systems.
 

Halla74

Artisan Conquerer
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
6,898
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
^Stick with 7w8, Trin.
We're the most fun of all the Enneagram types. :yes:

Also, I read on the Enneagram Institute web site that once developed your type should not change over the course of your life...
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
As far as change goes, Enneagram (like MBTI) seems to presuppose some stability in type, but it directly incorporates change within the Directions of Integration and Disintegration, as directed by the geometics.

Basically, the types are connected on the symbol by lines, and types that are maturing seem to pick up positive traits from the one direction and if they are devolving they are attributed traits from the other direction.

(Example: When Five matures, it begins to wield power in the external world rather than just intellectualizing and moves towards Eight, which is a type that naturally moves with force through the world; meanwhile, if Five is avoiding that sort of maturation, it tends to move towards typical bad Seven behavior, which includes self-indulgence and loss of self-control.)

MBTI speculates on growth potential but it is not nearly so defined within the system itself, as part of the theory, as the Enneagram is.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
I know I'm an 8.

Haven't taken the test yet so I'm not certain on the wing.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
So, Enneagram experts, tell me about wings. Do they matter? Is everyone supposed to have one? If you don't have a strong preference for either wing what does that mean? Hell, what does the wing mean in the first place?

I ask because I'm slowly coming around to the idea that I am most likely a Seven, however based on tests that I've done as honestly as I can over the past year my results go in order of: 7 -> 3 -> 9 -> 5 -> 8 -> 4 -> 1 -> 2 -> 6 with 7 always being first, 6 usually being last and no strong preference for 8.

I never really followed Spongie and Evan's theory, I'm curious as to what they, or other's who have looked into the Enneagram in depth can tell me about wings and my results :)

Also, two general questions: Is Enneagram like MBTI in that you don't change types we just develop and, is it easy to continually mistype with online tests like MBTI tests (I score as INTP in most online MBTI tests but identify as ENTP).

I would say 7w6 for you Trinity. You don't really seem aggressive or have that 8 "edge" to you at all.

And type doesn't change.

Here are some descriptions-

7w6s are less grounded and more visibly anxious. They are more manic. They are much more prone to bipolar personality disorder. They are mercurial and endearing. They tend to be more amiable and friendly. They are natural peter pan types who never grow up. They are the more childlike side of seven. They are more creative and fantastical. They are more excited about life and never stop dreaming. They have an attitude of wide-eyed wonderment towards the world. They are prone to blurring the distinction between fantasy and reality. They are much more "pie in the sky" thinkers. They believe in "potential" and that is a big theme in their lives. They believe in potential in others and pockets of potential in the world. They believe the "holy grail" is out there somewhere and it's just a matter of finding it. They are more likely to chase their own tail. They lack the pragmatism and realism of their seven-wing-eight siblings.

7w6s feel more of a need to "check in" with others. Their six wing gives them a need to establish "solidarity" with people they care about. They care about how they are seen. The dense party animal stereotype offends them more. They don't like to be taken for granted as someone who is happy all the time and doesn't have problems. They want to be seen as someone who has depth of personality. They want to be seen as someone who is also "human" and can relate to how you are feeling. Their six wing causes them to be awed and apalled. They have more highs and lows. They have a good-natured sense of humor and are more natural entertainers. They tend to be funny more than they are characters.

7w6s tend to fear getting "trapped" in a rut as opposed to stuck in a rut. Their six wing makes them more likely to feel defeatism and despair. They admit to themselves the rut has "got" them in some way. They can see the walls closing in and becoming more trapped if they don't do something.


7w8s are more grounded and show less signs of anxiety. They tend to have less mood swings but bigger tempers. They can be pushy and belligerent. They are realistic and pragmatic. They are more aggressive and competitive than their six-winged siblings. They are more territorial and acquisitive. They tend to be more interested in worldly success than chasing a dream. They believe in what's possible not the holy grail. They simply persistently play the hand they are dealt the best they can. Their philosophy is similar to that Kenny Rogers song: "gotta know when to hold them when to fold them when to walk and when to run".

7w8s are the badboy/badgirl side of seven. They don't feel a need to "check in" with others. Their eight wing makes them less openly vulnerable. They relate to others from a position of strength as opposed to establishing solidarity. They assume people don't like them until they do so they don't need validation. Misconceptions of what a seven is don't really bother them personally. They don't care about how they are seen like their six-winged siblings. They value freedom more and are much more independent. They want the strings attached between them and others kept to a minimum. Their eight wing makes them more even-keeled. It takes more to excite them or make them depressed. They are more insensitive and have more of a "shocking" sense of humor and tend to be funny characters more than they have funny material.

7w8s tend to fear getting "stuck" in a rut as opposed to trapped in a rut. Their eight wing causes them to see a rut as annoying and something that ticks them off but doesn't have any power over them. Once they're out of the rut everything will be back to normal so no big deal.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I know I'm an 8.

Haven't taken the test yet so I'm not certain on the wing.

8w9, absolutely no question about it. I'll bold what I believe applies to you in 8w9-

8w7s are less inhibited and tend to be colorful characters. They tend to have more mercurial life patterns. They are more cocky and convey a "it's a priviledge for you to engage me" vibe. They intend for reality to contour itself around the way they go about their business. They expect the red sea to be parted for them. They are a double-gluttony subtype and are more likely to have the itch to gamble and be high-rollers. They are vulnerable to taking on too much risk and overextending themselves. They are more frenzied and cathartic and have more self-destructive tendencies. They tend to be iconoclasts who delight in turning things upside down instead of solidifying them.

8w7s believe the best defense is a good offense. Their style of dominating is to preemptively attack you to keep you off balance. They delight in "checkmating" you as their seven wing makes them focus on where your options and possibilities are so they can cut them off. They have a greater focus on tactics and strategy. They are more "I reign supreme and will summon all my powers to blow you to smithereens".


8w9s tend to be more reserved and self-contained. They are more modest and friendly. They aren't as megalomanic as 8w7s. They are less likely to overestimate themselves. They speak in simpler language and seem less "heady" than 8w7s with their more drawn out cadence. They don't understand the eight-winged-seven self-destructive behaviour. They are more grounded and unmovable but they can get aggressive in a hurry if provoked. They are natural defenders who focus on solidifying structures as opposed to tearing them down and starting anew.

8w9s believe the best defense is to be well-fortified. They don't believe in preemptive aggression. They wait for the enemy to strike first and are natural counterpunchers. Their style of dominance is to endure whatever you throw at them and gradually steamroll you. They delight in pushing their weight against you and making you feel their physical presence. They are more "I am unbreakable and will steadily wear you down".
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I didn't bold modest and friendly because I didn't think I was in a position to say that about you (I just know you over the net), but I fixed that. ;)

No problem.
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
I still think seven with an eight wing.

Seven
World View: The world is full of opportunity and options. I look forward to the future.
Basic Desire: to be happy
Basic Fear: of being deprived

Eight
World View: The world is an unjust place. I am strong and I defend the innocent.
Basic Desire: to be self-reliant
Basic Fear: of submitting to others

Six
World View: The world is a threatening place. I need to look to authority, but I question it.
Basic Desire: to be secure
Basic Fear: of being abandoned

I don't see aggressiveness in you. But I do see a strong need to be self reliant. I don't see the six description in you at all.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
You would know better I suppose wolfy. :)
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Hah! You know, with all the enneagram threads you need to be shifting around, you think you'd have found the information you were looking for. Most of what anyone could tell you is in the two threads that have been stickied here now. About the original system anyway.

Maybe you just didn't feel like looking through it all. :tongue:

:tongue: Actually I checked out most of the links in the two threads I stickied and found a bunch of information that helped me decide that tests, combined with self analysis, meant Seven probably does fit. In regards to the other questions I have, there were text blocks, Magic :( I don't cope with text blocks well! :dont:

I'm still going through stuff but asking y'all seemed quicker, when I'm interested in something my interest must be feed immediately or I lose interest and/or forget :blush:


I would say 7w6 for you Trinity. You don't really seem aggressive or have that 8 "edge" to you at all.

And type doesn't change.

7w6s are less grounded and more visibly anxious. They are more manic. They are much more prone to bipolar personality disorder. They are mercurial and endearing. They tend to be more amiable and friendly. They are natural peter pan types who never grow up. They are the more childlike side of seven. They are more creative and fantastical. They are more excited about life and never stop dreaming. They have an attitude of wide-eyed wonderment towards the world. They are prone to blurring the distinction between fantasy and reality. They are much more "pie in the sky" thinkers. They believe in "potential" and that is a big theme in their lives. They believe in potential in others and pockets of potential in the world. They believe the "holy grail" is out there somewhere and it's just a matter of finding it. They are more likely to chase their own tail. They lack the pragmatism and realism of their seven-wing-eight siblings.

7w6s feel more of a need to "check in" with others. [in relation to decision making] Their six wing gives them a need to establish "solidarity" with people they care about. They care about how they are seen. The dense party animal stereotype offends them more. They don't like to be taken for granted as someone who is happy all the time and doesn't have problems. They want to be seen as someone who has depth of personality. They want to be seen as someone who is also "human" and can relate to how you are feeling. Their six wing causes them to be awed and apalled. They have more highs and lows. They have a good-natured sense of humor and are more natural entertainers. They tend to be funny more than they are characters.

7w6s tend to fear getting "trapped" in a rut as opposed to stuck in a rut. Their six wing makes them more likely to feel defeatism and despair. They admit to themselves the rut has "got" them in some way. They can see the walls closing in and becoming more trapped if they don't do something.


7w8s are more grounded and show less signs of anxiety. They tend to have less mood swings but bigger tempers. They can be pushy and belligerent. They are realistic and pragmatic. They are more aggressive and competitive than their six-winged siblings. They are more territorial and acquisitive. They tend to be more interested in worldly success than chasing a dream. They believe in what's possible not the holy grail. They simply persistently play the hand they are dealt the best they can. Their philosophy is similar to that Kenny Rogers song: "gotta know when to hold them when to fold them when to walk and when to run".

7w8s are the badboy/badgirl side of seven. They don't feel a need to "check in" with others. Their eight wing makes them less openly vulnerable. They relate to others from a position of strength as opposed to establishing solidarity. They assume people don't like them until they do so they don't need validation. Misconceptions of what a seven is don't really bother them personally. They don't care about how they are seen like their six-winged siblings. They value freedom more and are much more independent. They want the strings attached between them and others kept to a minimum. Their eight wing makes them more even-keeled. It takes more to excite them or make them depressed. They are more insensitive and have more of a "shocking" sense of humor and tend to be funny characters more than they have funny material.

7w8s tend to fear getting "stuck" in a rut as opposed to trapped in a rut. Their eight wing causes them to see a rut as annoying and something that ticks them off but doesn't have any power over them. Once they're out of the rut everything will be back to normal so no big deal.

Here are some descriptions-

Iunno, there are times I can fit most of the things in both descriptions with the exception of the 7w6 prone to mania/big mood swings and 7w8 aggressiveness. The stuff I highlighted is what is most true for me =/


I still think seven with an eight wing.

Seven
World View: The world is full of opportunity and options. I look forward to the future.
Basic Desire: to be happy
Basic Fear: of being deprived

Eight
World View: The world is an unjust place. I am strong and I defend the innocent.
Basic Desire: to be self-reliant
Basic Fear: of submitting to others

Six
World View: The world is a threatening place. I need to look to authority, but I question it.
Basic Desire: to be secure
Basic Fear: of being abandoned

I don't see aggressiveness in you. But I do see a strong need to be self reliant. I don't see the six description in you at all.

The 7 World View definitely rings true, I'm more inclined to say the world is an unjust place than a threatening place and I don't have any need to look to authority. I have no clear preference for the rest of it though.

I guess one of the aspects that I see 8 in my life is at work, I've actively worked towards positions that have more authority, power, responsibility and accountability, as in I've actually sat down and decided that they are things I wanted and then made it happen. In most other aspects of my life I simply 'go with the flow'. I don't consider myself forceful, just determined (sometimes).
 

ergophobe

Allergic to Mornings
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,210
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
I find more ENFP 7s are 7w6s while ENTPs tend to be more 7w8?

Trinity and all you enlightened Enneagramers -- I've been thinking of this recently and Trinity's comments above highlighted this. Do you think we could have different wings be dominant in different parts of our lives?

Could one, for example, be more of a 7w6, checking with peeps sort for personal relationships but be a 7w8 in a work environment? Just wondering out aloud.

Fanks!

Edit: OP - you had to sneak a BSG reference in, didn't ya? :newwink:
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I find more ENFP 7s are 7w6s while ENTPs tend to be more 7w8?

Trinity and all you enlightened Enneagramers...

IIRC there are a number of ENTPs around here claiming 7w6, some of the ENTPs I relate to the most as well. Other than that I'm not enlightened so I'll sit back and wait for others to answer *shares popcorn*
 

ergophobe

Allergic to Mornings
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,210
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
IIRC there are a number of ENTPs around here claiming 7w6, some of the ENTPs I relate to the most as well. Other than that I'm not enlightened so I'll sit back and wait for others to answer *shares popcorn*

True - I remember Q and Blah claiming 7w6 among others. Also among ENFPs, Syptg is a 7w8. I don't know if we have any percentages - perhaps gleaned from the enfp enneagram or entp enneagram threads or even better 7 is the perfect number thread....

I think it's purely my impression so far and something I read recently about 7w6s ~ENFPs on one of the many enneagram 7 related threads abounding, I think it was a link discussing the difference between 7w6s and 4w3s...:thinking:

Either way, pass the popcorn...

Edit: I already looked through the 7 is a lucky number and ENTP thread and ENFP threads because I'm a bit curious now:

ENTPs just from these threads including those above
7w6s: 3
7w8s: 2
7 no identified wing: ??

ENFPs:
7w6: 4
7w8: 2
7 no identified wing: 2
 
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