...Enneagram Corner

[MellowMarcello]

I agree, but like I wrote Fives are not so much interested in doing well in school nor do they normally tell how smart they are, rather than showing their knowledge. It`s more threeish first to tell of your achievements which includes being smart and competent.



In my experience it`s the sp Fives who normally don`t have much Eightness in them. You typed her as sx/sp Five and they are a lot sharper than her.

Online is different though and gives fives a way to express themselves they wouldn't do in real life. I doubt lostlove would be anywhere as close to as revealing in real life.

I don't think 30-40 posts is enough to see if someone is sharp enough to be an sx/sp. Plus there are certain contexts where an sx/sp will be the opposite.

Eightness in a five is seperate from stacking...sx/sp fives overall have more emotional electricity than sp 5s but that's different from 8ness. 8ness is gravitas. Marcello is an example of a 5 with a lot of 8 in him...even though he is sp-first.

 

[Delphyne]

First impression is 3w2 from his video...probably so/sx...will look into this guy further to see if he is a 2.

He`s an enneagram teacher who types himself as a sx Eight. At least according to someone who met him at a retreat. Eight really doesn`t fit him. He just screams heart type. I thought about him being a Two, but I`m not sure. His smile is putting me off.

 

[MellowMarcello]

He's got heart triad written all over him...the 2-3 area in particular has a cheesy warmth to me. Eight is the last type I'd pick for him.

When on the nutty side 3w2 is more cheesy and 2w3 is more tacky and I'm getting the former.

 

[Delphyne]

Eightness in a five is seperate from stacking...sx/sp fives overall have more emotional electricity than sp 5s but that's different from 8ness. 8ness is gravitas. Marcello is an example of a 5 with a lot of 8 in him...even though he is sp-first.

Now, last time we met online you weren`t.

 

[Delphyne]

He's got heart triad written all over him...the 2-3 area in particular has a cheesy warmth to me. Eight is the last type I'd pick for him.

When on the nutty side 3w2 is more cheesy and 2w3 is more tacky and I'm getting the former.

Yes, he seems more cheesy than tacky.

 

[MellowMarcello]

Now, last time we met online you weren`t.

I am a five I tell you...HAR HAR...

 

[MellowMarcello]

Ask Uncle Marcy your enneagram question...HAR HAR

Come on now...don't be shy!

 

[MellowMarcello]

Pure unadulturated gravitas my bipedalled friends...

 

[Delphyne]

If I wasn't even know I was a 4w5, you should probably not to take my opinion about her type so seriously. Well, I cannot definitely rule out her being a Four, (I probably did not understand what could be classified as a Four anyway) but regardless what type she is, she is most probably an unhealthy type.

It wasn`t your typing skills I was interested in but the relationship with your sister as it can be very telling. You grew up together and had enough time to get on each other`s nerves. I was asking you a few questions to get a feeling for your pattern, but I really couldn`t feel you. I had the impression of getting carefully thought-out answers, which didn`t lead to much. Of course, this isn`t your fault. You answered as best as you could. It`s just that an enneagram type can best be seen when you get on the wrong side of somebody. The defense mechanisms, the focus of attention and the sore points are far more informative than a nice portrayal of yourself. Your sister surely brought you out of your comfort zone and would know about your defense mechanisms as you know about hers.

There`s certainly a great possibility of your sister being a Four. Type Four isn`t about being romantic and your sister shows some fourish characteristics which are not all that likeable. Do you think aristocratic pride would be a fitting characterization of your sister?

I was introduced to Enneagram by her, she was very keen to get me to do the RHETI test and asked me for the result. I guess I now kind of know why. She thought she was the "best type" 4 and wanted to prove that I was the "worst type" 3. So she would win. She got angry when she found out my test results. She kept on convincing me how I must be a Three. Fours must like cats, Fours must be unpleasant in character, etc... Since I was not convinced, she got mad at me and even made sarcastic remarks such as "If you are a Four, maybe I am not a Four then", "If you like to be a Four, be a Four then", etc.

Can you relate to your sister`s reaction? Do you understand why she`s competing with you and her need of having the best type?

Saying that Three is the worst type is due to the need to belittle you. Nonetheless she may be right in her typing. Can you get over her childish reaction and just take in how she perceives you?

I see Three definitely as a possibility. Your long answer to Marcy was very interesting. Not only the content but its length. You seem to have a real need to explain yourself as having not that much threeish competitiveness and pride. Why?

 

[Delphyne]

We can only say that the tests reflect the person's perspective on himself and is only as accurate as how the person interpret the questions and whether answering the questions correctly actually does point to the correct end result - the correct type.

Test can only catch the characteristics of the types, not their motivations. So even if a person doesn`t delude himself or herself the test results can still point to a wrong type.

 

[Delphyne]

I am a five I tell you...HAR HAR...

I hear you, little furred pet. :hi:

 

[MellowMarcello]

Could you please elaborate what the highlighted part means?

By saying "3ness", are you referring to competitiveness? I don't know where it comes from.

I recall when I was in primary school I was always the top 3 students in the class, I usually received many prizes at the end of year ceremony. If I remember correctly, I only cared about what toys I got as prizes rather than the achievement itself. I threw away all the certificates of merit when my mother gave the whole pile back to me when I was older.

I was never a hard-working kid when I was in my primary school and high school years. I don't think I worked hard for the purpose of achieving good academic results in the early school years. The earliest that I can remember I took any notice of my academic achievement was in my last 2 years of primary schooling when I received my school report. I dropped out of the top 3. I was still within the top 6 but I don't think I tried anything hard to move my ranking back to the top 3.

I dropped even more when I moved to junior high school, but I was still within top 10. I think I was probably a bit disappointed at myself but I still did not do anything to improve myself academically. I was too busy reading novels and hiding myself in my own world. The only subjects that I was good at were languages and nothing else. I did even worse at my 4th to 5th years of high school. I spent very little time studying as I was not really interested. I had to repeat my 5th year and that was when I started doing summer jobs. I realised if I did not study I would have to get stuck with those repetitive, routine jobs for the rest of my life. That was probably my motivation to complete at least a bachelor degree no matter what.

I went overseas to study matriculation. I received 3 full marks out of 5 subjects in University entrance exams and my school principal used me as an advertisement for his school. He arranged reporters from two different newspapers to take photos of me without asking for my permission. The reporters made up stories in the articles about me and I was under tremendous pressure from the people around me commenting me "showing off". It was not my intention to be under the "spotlight" but it was not under my control how things ended up.

I was deeply hurt by a love relationship in my first year of Uni. During lectures, I could not focus and had been writing about my feelings while the lecturer was talking. After classes, I was listening to sad love songs. At night time, I was walking alone in the street with nobody in sight.

When the exams were coming, I was shaking. I did not know what the lectures were about, I was genuinely scared that I would fail the exams and had to be sent back home. I pulled myself together and tried my best to read the books and to understand the lecture notes with the limited time that I had. Don't ask me how I did it. I was also surprised that I got distinction in all the subjects. This pattern repeated. I did not know what was happening in lectures as I was daydreaming too much. It was not my intention to not paying attention to my study only to prove that I was smart. I just could not help it...when the exams were coming, I was scared to death then started studying hard again.

I never told others my exam results but unfortunately some subjects also printed the name of the student next to the scores when the results were posted on a public notice board. I suddenly became the target of competition. People started asking me what marks I got, and started to ask me questions about the subjects before I started studying. I honestly did not know the answers as I did not know what the lectures were about, but no one believed me. When I was scared to death before the exams, again no one believed me. Everyone thought I was lying and was showing off.

I guess I also put too much pressure on myself as a perfectionist. I used to have this in my mind: unless I don't do it, if I do something, it needs to be perfect. I could not stand if there was even one credit among all the distinctions in my University report. I thought it was too hard for a daydreamer always had to pull herself together to achieve that. That was one of the reasons I never wanted to study again - as I do not need to keep up the good work and I can be off the hook.

I do not have that much self-confidence as you think. I know I can do very badly and fail exams as I had done that before. This lack of self-confidence probably came from my father constantly putting me down for fear that I would become "too proud of myself". He said I did not listen when my uncle was trying to help me with my homework. I can't remember why I didn't listen, but I don't think it was because I thought I was smart. I guess it was probably because I always liked to do things in my own way rather than people telling me what to do.

I don't like to use competitiveness with type 3...maybe...maybe not. All 3s are very aware of how they come across to others and believe it is their destiny to become someone outstanding in however they see what outstanding is...may even be an outstanding parent. To me that's the purest way to describe the type...not competitive or narcisstic.

Also I think type 3 cares about areas they have ego investment in...not all areas...and these areas may not be what you think...so they may not be overachievers in the traditional areas.

One can brag in real life...one can care about being seen as competent online even if they would never vocalize that in real life...and one can simply not care about being competent or have another drive that takes its place. I see you in the middle...you care about being seen as competent in a way I can't even fathom...that intellectual VIP thing again.

You like to debate in areas you know about and avoid debating in areas you don't which baffles me. If you know more than anyone else...what do you have to gain? You have nowhere to go but down. You at best become an expert who answers beginners' questions...at worst you get exposed for not knowing as much as you think you do. But if you are a beginner you have nowhere to go but up. You know you got your strong areas safely tucked away...and you can only get better in this new area. It's tied together with debating areas you know and avoiding what you don't puts you in danger of looking smarter than you are. I also see you being a big fish in a small pond person. What else...I sense a tendency to use big words excessively.

I also don't think you understand the extent of how say 4w5 instead of 3w4 in a person would make them want to appear more layered and mysterious first and foremost...often at the expense of appearing cool competent or intelligent...even online. I think that translates into you having a more what you see is what you get way of reading people online.

 

[MellowMarcello]

What exactly are "type energies"? How do they differ from and interact with the main type?

Main type is the setting based on the relationship of centers to each other. Type energies in this case would be the hue of each center individually. You can look at the relatonship between type energies and type as one similar triangle inside another...or the relationship between stackings in modern man vs stackings in animals.

Or you can look at it similar to lines...how a 5 going to 8 is not the same thing as an 8.

As far as interaction:

I'd say a person who thinks she has a powerful mind that makes her inherently more perceptive than others due to being able to see the undersides of things others don't see(5w4). An aloof person that appears all that and cold outside of a few close friends.(3w4) Penchant for being dismissive of people.(1w2) Triple competency goes without saying. Puts her most competent foot forward and being seen as an intellectual VIP is important.(5w4 and 3w4) Fashion conscious and dresses to make heads turn.(3w4) Respected by peers yet hard to get to know.(3w4 amplified by 5w4) Looks for the things that aren't obvious that others miss.(5w4)

That's a tough combo...probably the most likely to not find a mate they are looking for...the 3w4 looking for what they see as top quality...the 1w2 being nitpicky about flaws in a person...and the 5w4 wanting a complex enough person to make the perceived contradictions that are rarely found in the same person work...confident yet humble...has his stuff together but knows there's more important things in life...desireable but not a player...worldly yet introspective etc. And the sx/sp makes that even harder...the sx-first focus on finding the one with the social-last disadvantage of not having as many people to sift through.

 

[MellowMarcello]

If I wasn't even know I was a 4w5, you should probably not to take my opinion about her type so seriously. Well, I cannot definitely rule out her being a Four, (I probably did not understand what could be classified as a Four anyway) but regardless what type she is, she is most probably an unhealthy type.

She had been a nightmare in my life, we never got along well. To me, she was some sort of horrible creature. She tried to compete with me all her life, constantly crossing my boundaries and always said horrible things to upset me.

If I liked a certain TV star, she would say she liked the competitor of that TV star and put down the TV star I liked. When I was getting frustrated due to a cold, she would say I must be angry because I looked ugly due to the cold. When I was holding a baby and did not want to pass it to her yet, she said, "One day you will drop you own baby onto the ground". That happened when we were both still school-aged kids.

She was super-subjective. I was never able to reason with her on anything. She would bend everything to suit her argument. If she didn't like anything, she would just constantly argue with me or just got angry and went away.

I have only seen her cried once after she grew up. That was when she was beaten by my mother due to her rebellion. She studied literature at Uni and wrote poems herself. She had a big collection of books, but it seemed to me that it was more of a collection rather than her really reading them - as I rarely saw her read any book. She liked contemporary piano music. She was always tired and slept a lot during the day. She had been hospitalised once due to major depression.

She was probably not very self-referential. Whenever she accused me of something, she always had to emphasis that brother or sister or father also thought the same.

I was introduced to Enneagram by her, she was very keen to get me to do the RHETI test and asked me for the result. I guess I now kind of know why. She thought she was the "best type" 4 and wanted to prove that I was the "worst type" 3. So she would win. She got angry when she found out my test results. She kept on convincing me how I must be a Three. Fours must like cats, Fours must be unpleasant in character, etc... Since I was not convinced, she got mad at me and even made sarcastic remarks such as "If you are a Four, maybe I am not a Four then", "If you like to be a Four, be a Four then", etc.

One thing I agree though, it is impossible for me to be the same animal as her.

That sounds more like a 2 who thinks she is a 4. Makes sense as 2s and 5s are the opposite in many ways.

 

[MellowMarcello]

I interpreted him as trying to figure out my type more than just actually wanting to know how much I knew about the enneagram.

How would he expect my answer to be? "Just a little", "Not much", "A lot". I didn't think these answers would give him a lot of information.

Test results would give him an overview and some quick information to start with; otherwise, it would take 10 more posts back and forth to explain: now I think I am a Four, because of this and this, I also think I have a Five wing, because of this and that, then I may have some One in me, because of this and that...perhaps some Six because of this and that...

We can only say that the tests reflect the person's perspective on himself and is only as accurate as how the person interpret the questions and whether answering the questions correctly actually does point to the correct end result - the correct type.

Think of it as similar to a 4 who is a Bulls fan being willing to wear a Bulls players jersey.

 

[MellowMarcello]

Absolutely. I guess writing online is similar to writing to myself in a way, not exactly, but similar. Though contributing to a forum is still expecting there are audiences, you can imagine that they are not there or they are not real. The romantic and feeling stuff would normally only appear in my diary. Academic achievements would only be used for job interviews.

In a certain way, I am happy with some of my achievements, but it is more for self-recognition rather than something to boost for. I never personally mentioned what marks I got at school to anybody else other than to my parents when they asked for it. My partner was the only person I told about my Philosophy Logic score and you were the second to be told.

In real life, I prefer to be a gem waiting to be "discovered" rather than directly telling others what I am good at. It better suits my low-profile personal style. However, if you are to discuss about your personality type with others, I think it would be better to provide as much information as possible. Hence I try to be as revealing as possible here.

I don't see this as being incompatible with having 3ness in you.

 

[MellowMarcello]

What do you mean by "sharp"?
And what are the "certain contexts" where an sx/sp will be the opposite?

Degree to which they speak their mind...like a sharp tongue.

sx/sps are the opposite with people they got good vibes with to the point of being subservient...so more extremes either way.

 

[MellowMarcello]

I can think of two reasons. I have a natural tendency to clarify things if people misunderstood something which I am involved, particularly in the case when I am the one being misunderstood. I get upset if people misread or misunderstand me, that means most of the time - as it happens a lot.

Another reason is probably because I have more One in me than Three. In my mind, being competitive, using others to achieve your own goals, cheating, deceiving, faking, arrogant, seeing success as too important, etc. These are bad, and I cannot accept that I am bad. Hence I must defend myself that I am not a bad person.

In real life, I do not get along well with the 3 Type. They seem to be obvious to type (if you trust my typing skills, haha). I actually dislike talking to them. I find them too fake, having too much hidden agenda going on behind the surface, not sincere... My partner is a 2w3 - he is also very obvious to type. Even him just having a 3 wing boosts about his achievement more than I do, and I hate it when he lies or being dishonest just to get away from the consequence.

Yeah you can't look at threes like that...

 

[MellowMarcello]

Unrivaled georgeousity my bipedalled friends...HAR HAR...​

 

[Thalassa]

What makes her a 2? An unhealthy one? Which wing?
I thought only a 4 would suffer from clinical depression?

She had a very poor self-image, she always put on a sad face. She did not even have a happy look on her wedding day. She thought she was ugly but she was very self-conscious on her look.

My partner is a 2 but he never thinks of himself as a 4. He is not like my sister at all.

I'm no expert on enneagram, but I will tell you that clinical depression has nothing to do with personality number - 4s don't hold court on mental illness.

I'm either a 4w3 or a 6w7 and I have suffered from clinical depression, but I'm NOTHING like your sister at all. I'm happy sometimes, extremely happy, and actually used to be in the habit of smiling on cue (ah...that would be where the 3 or 7 wings come into play..) I can't imagine talking to someone like your sister talks to you. It's funny that she said those things when she was a little girl, because it totally made her sound like an old lady to me. I mean, I don't think it's funny that she talked to you that way, I just find it strange for a child to speak that way.