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MBTI and Enneagram Correlations

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
I just got into Enneagram today and simply reading the definitions on 9types and the enneagram institute page I could tell I was a 4w1. I decided to keep researching the subject, and I came upon this correlations page full of sources. The very first box fit my functions perfectly, which I found surprising. Although I see that the first box is by Enneagram Institute as well. They have growth and stress, so it's interesting that they think for example growth for Te is Se etc.

I know the Enneagram is old news, but:

My question is, which one of these correlations do you agree with, if any? Can you reason around? I have a hunch that the sixth one down (L. J. Gabbard) is pretty accurate in some ways, because I've seen those types matched together. I do not like the one right before it. Also I couldn't understand why 4 is usually attributed to NF types and 5 is usually attributed to NT types. Then again I've just started looking at this theory. As of now I know the two theories aren't so relative, but let me know if you have any justified opinions.
 

"?"

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
I just got into Enneagram today and simply reading the definitions on 9types and the enneagram institute page I could tell I was a 4w1. I decided to keep researching the subject, and I came upon this correlations page full of sources. The very first box fit my functions perfectly, which I found surprising. Although I see that the first box is by Enneagram Institute as well. They have growth and stress, so it's interesting that they think for example growth for Te is Se etc.
Keep reading Lemons. You will learn that the wing must be adjacent to the dominant type (i.e. E4s can only be 4w3 or 4w5s). You may have scored highest on E4 followed by E1 which in case you could be 1w9 or 1w2.
I know the Enneagram is old news, but:

My question is, which one of these correlations do you agree with, if any? Can you reason around? I have a hunch that the sixth one down (L. J. Gabbard) is pretty accurate in some ways, because I've seen those types matched together. I do not like the one right before it. Also I couldn't understand why 4 is usually attributed to NF types and 5 is usually attributed to NT types. Then again I've just started looking at this theory. As of now I know the two theories aren't so relative, but let me know if you have any justified opinions.
The two systems are hard to correlate, yet enthusiast from both schools continue to make the attempt. I would say that the most accurate correlation table at LIFEXPLORES is the one at the very bottom (color-coded). I like Renee Barrons' list, as well as Ptypes. He correlates mbti-enneagram-oldham. Mr. Kelly developed his correlation during the time that he was appreciating the theory of Socionics, so clearly there will be some reversal for introverts. He shows ISTPs as 9w1 which is quite accurate. Barrons shows IXXPs usually correlate with E9. Edge Walker and I were discussing today that many INTPs are 9w1 while ISTPs are 9w8.
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I just got into Enneagram today and simply reading the definitions on 9types and the enneagram institute page I could tell I was a 4w1. I decided to keep researching the subject, and I came upon this correlations page full of sources. The very first box fit my functions perfectly, which I found surprising. Although I see that the first box is by Enneagram Institute as well. They have growth and stress, so it's interesting that they think for example growth for Te is Se etc.

I know the Enneagram is old news, but:

My question is, which one of these correlations do you agree with, if any? Can you reason around? I have a hunch that the sixth one down (L. J. Gabbard) is pretty accurate in some ways, because I've seen those types matched together. I do not like the one right before it. Also I couldn't understand why 4 is usually attributed to NF types and 5 is usually attributed to NT types. Then again I've just started looking at this theory. As of now I know the two theories aren't so relative, but let me know if you have any justified opinions.

i think those correlations are bullshit. here is a much better sight on MBTI correlating with enneagram:

The Enneagram and the MBTI: In Search of Common Ground, Part 2

First we must conceive of the enneagram as composed of nine 'zones', one zone associated with each enneagram point. In each zone gathers a 'family' of MBTI types that 'resemble' each other, although there is no one obvious feature which all members of the family have in common.


Furthermore, the family in each zone clusters around an MBTI pair that can be considered that zone's 'prototypes'. This protypical pair manifests a characteristic 'issue' (associated with their common inferior function) which all other family members, although they may have different fourth functions, also share in varying degrees.


For instance, associated with zone 8, as 'prototypical', is the 'extraverted thinking' pair (ESTJ, ENTJ). Both types have 'thinking' (T) as the dominant function. They are the only two 'extraverted thinking' types amongst the 16. But it is not dominant extraverted 'thinking' that they share with the other (non-prototypical) members of the zone 8 family, but issues associated with underdeveloped feeling . For the ESTJ and ENTJ are also the only two types that share introverted feeling as their inferior function. This can be seen by looking at their respective 'preference-orders': ESTJ = E\T-S-N-F, and ENTJ = E\T-N-S-F.

Now, some ESTPs and ENTPs may also test as 8s, although they do not have feeling as their fourth function. Nevertheless, we hypothesize, feeling will be underdeveloped in these particular individuals and it is this (and related issues) that they share with the others in zone 8 [more about this below].


The following chart correlates an 'inferior function' with each zone and specifies the pair that is the 'prototype' for each zone. [We will use the following 'shorthand' convention: the formula 'E(N/S)TJ' will substitute for 'ENTJ and ESTJ'.]

Zone Issue Prototypical
MBTI Pair The Preference Orders
for the Members of
the Prototypical Pair
8 Inferior introverted feeling E(N/S)TJ T-N-S-F & T-S-N-F
2 Inferior introverted thinking E(N/S)FJ F-N-S-T & F-S-N-T
3 Inferior introverted intuition ES(T/F)P S-T-F-N & S-F-T-N
7 Inferior introverted sensing EN(T/F)P N-T-F-S & N-F-T-S
5 Inferior extraverted feeling I(N/S)TP T-N-S-F & T-S-N-F
9 Inferior extraverted thinking I(N/S)FP F-N-S-T & F-S-N-T
6 Inferior extraverted intuition IS(T/F)J S-T-F-N & S-F-T-N
4 Inferior extraverted sensing IN(T/F)J N-T-F-S & N-F-T-S


Let us summarize what we have said so far.


There are nine 'zones', one zone associated with each enneagram point
In each zone gathers a 'family' of MBTI types
Prototypical of each zone (and each family) is a pair of MBTI types (specified above)
Each family, however, is not limited to the prototypical pair, but is comprised also of individuals of other types who share issues related to the inferior function of the prototypical pair

From the above chart it is easy to see that each zone will also have a special relationship with one other zone, with which it shares an inferior function. For instance, 8 and 5 both have inferior feeling (although they also differ, insofar as zone 8 has inferior introverted feeling, and zone 5 has inferior extraverted feeling). Also, 2 and 9 have inferior thinking; 3 and 6 have inferior intuition; and 7 and 4 have inferior sensing. When we drew a circle with the nine points on it and connected these complementary pairs, we were surprised to get the following symmetrical diagram:

The Enneagram and the MBTI: In Search of Common Ground, Part 3
this one goes over each enneagram more in depth
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
Thanks for that piece of theory.

Ok, according to Babylon's provided model, 4 and 1 would be an INJJ. However I can't be a 4 and a 1. But I don't relate with 3 or 5 that much. I'll have to go with just 4 I guess, if I'm allowed to do that.
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Thanks for that piece of theory.

Ok, according to Babylon's provided model, 4 and 1 would be an INJJ. However I can't be a 4 and a 1. But I don't relate with 3 or 5 that much. I'll have to go with just 4 I guess, if I'm allowed to do that.

its important not to overgeneralize though. according to that theory, For instance, an INJ is only the "typical" 4, due to inferior Se. An INTJ could be a 5 or 8 due to really undeveloped Fi or Fe. An INFP could be a 4 from really undeveloped Se.... etc
 

TenebrousReflection

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Messages
449
MBTI Type
INFp
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Thanks for that piece of theory.

Ok, according to Babylon's provided model, 4 and 1 would be an INJJ. However I can't be a 4 and a 1. But I don't relate with 3 or 5 that much. I'll have to go with just 4 I guess, if I'm allowed to do that.

I also self type as a 4, but have a lot of 1 and 5 characteristics. This page might shed a little more light on the association between 1s and 4s.

4 - Enneagram Type Four: The Individualist

When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), aloof Fours suddenly become over-involved and clinging at Two. However, when moving in their Direction of Integration (growth), envious, emotionally turbulent Fours become more objective and principled, like healthy Ones. For more information, click here.
 

Srho

New member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
88
MBTI Type
INFX
This is my theoretical model for the correlation of MBTI with the Enneagram:
1w9: J>I>S>T
1w2: J>T>N>E
2w1: J>F>E>S
2w3: E>J>F>N
3w2: E>F>N>P
3w4: N>P>E>T
4w3: N>P>E>F
4w5: N>I>F>J
5w4: N>I>T>P
5w6: T>I>J>N
6w5: J>T>I>S
6w7: J>S>F>I
7w6: E>P>F>S
7w8: E>P>S>T
8w7: T>J>E>S
8w9: J>S>E>F
9w8: F>S>I>P
9w1: P>F>I>S
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What MBTI type correlates with the 5W6 at level 1?
 

Santosha

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
1,516
MBTI Type
HUMR
Enneagram
6
Instinctual Variant
sx
This is my theoretical model for the correlation of MBTI with the Enneagram:
1w9: J>I>S>T
1w2: J>T>N>E
2w1: J>F>E>S
2w3: E>J>F>N
3w2: E>F>N>P
3w4: N>P>E>T
4w3: N>P>E>F
4w5: N>I>F>J
5w4: N>I>T>P
5w6: T>I>J>N
6w5: J>T>I>S
6w7: J>S>F>I
7w6: E>P>F>S
7w8: E>P>S>T
8w7: T>J>E>S
8w9: J>S>E>F
9w8: F>S>I>P
9w1: P>F>I>S

This is interesting, except I do not see INFP. Do you mean 4w3 to be N>P>I>F?
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,729
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
This is my theoretical model for the correlation of MBTI with the Enneagram:
1w9: J>I>S>T
1w2: J>T>N>E
2w1: J>F>E>S
2w3: E>J>F>N
3w2: E>F>N>P
3w4: N>P>E>T
4w3: N>P>E>F
4w5: N>I>F>J
5w4: N>I>T>P
5w6: T>I>J>N
6w5: J>T>I>S
6w7: J>S>F>I
7w6: E>P>F>S
7w8: E>P>S>T
8w7: T>J>E>S
8w9: J>S>E>F
9w8: F>S>I>P
9w1: P>F>I>S

i don't agree with a lot of these. like F should be the most important letter for 4s, and i don't think most 4w3s are extroverts even though some are. plus a few more.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
A 3w4 is a complex, conflicted type, and you're definitely that one. Unfortunately, as far as the MBTI is concerned, you haven't really addressed any of those personality traits in your description. You imply that you're ambiverted, but typically a person is going to swing one way or the other most of the time, either toward E or I. You seem to describe yourself as mostly a Judger. There is a hint of future orientation, which could be intuition. T and F are hard to distinguish in your description.
 

pinkgraffiti

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
1,482
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
748
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
i think those correlations are bullshit. here is a much better sight on MBTI correlating with enneagram:
Zone Issue Prototypical
MBTI Pair The Preference Orders
for the Members of
the Prototypical Pair
8 Inferior introverted feeling E(N/S)TJ T-N-S-F & T-S-N-F
2 Inferior introverted thinking E(N/S)FJ F-N-S-T & F-S-N-T
3 Inferior introverted intuition ES(T/F)P S-T-F-N & S-F-T-N
7 Inferior introverted sensing EN(T/F)P N-T-F-S & N-F-T-S
5 Inferior extraverted feeling I(N/S)TP T-N-S-F & T-S-N-F
9 Inferior extraverted thinking I(N/S)FP F-N-S-T & F-S-N-T
6 Inferior extraverted intuition IS(T/F)J S-T-F-N & S-F-T-N
4 Inferior extraverted sensing IN(T/F)J N-T-F-S & N-F-T-S


Isn't easier to just say:
2: Fe
3: Se
4: Ni
5: Ti
6: Si
7: Ne
8: Te
9: Fi

An inferior function presumes the opposite dominant. Right?

The only thing I don't like so much is that they associate type 4 with Ni. I associate it with Fi.

Also, why is type 1 not represented?

Lastly: what the heck is the enneagram theory based on? Why 9 types. Couldn't it be 8 or 10? I really don't think there is a lot of basis for this theory.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Isn't easier to just say:
2: Fe
3: Se
4: Ni
5: Ti
6: Si
7: Ne
8: Te
9: Fi

Yes, but not only is it wrong to create strict correlations, it omits the influence of the wing.

An inferior function presumes the opposite dominant. Right?

The only thing I don't like so much is that they associate type 4 with Ni. I associate it with Fi.

Also, why is type 1 not represented?

Lastly: what the heck is the enneagram theory based on? Why 9 types. Couldn't it be 8 or 10? I really don't think there is a lot of basis for this theory.

The Enneagram is based in the mystical/metaphysical theories of G.I. Gurdjieff/P.D. Ouspensky, Oscar Ichazo, and Claudio Naranjo. The latter theorists systematized the basic structure of Gurdjieff's ideas.

The theory that results is based on Gurdjieff's teaching that there are three traditional methods of inner development: those of the Monk, the Fakir, and the Yogi. The fourth method, or Fourth Way, is self-development across all three, while at the same time going about your normal life without the necessity of withdrawing from the world, as with the other three methods.

The Way of the Monk corresponds to the Feeling triad (2/3/4); the Way of the Fakir corresponds to the Moving triad (8/9/1); The Way of the Yogi corresponds to the Thinking triad (5/6/7).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Way
 

pinkgraffiti

New member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
1,482
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
748
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
[MENTION=13589]Mal+[/MENTION] thanks. will check out. ;)
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
I've noticed INFJs fit snuggly into every E-type except 8

1 - The liberal/social activist

2 - The caretaker

3 - Ambitious, pragmathic INFJ

4 - The beautiful, passionate INFJ

5 - The intellectual INFJ

6 - The cynical INFJ

7 - Playful INFJ

9 - The altruistic monk
 
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