• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Enneagram's worth

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Enneagram is good used with MBTI, it really pinpoints how people are. I think I'm a bit of a freak, 8w9 INFP. You never hear of that one much do you?

thats almost impossible. so your weakest function that you need to protect is your dominant function? (yes i am dealing with the assumption that my table is usually correct on equating E# with a weak function being protected).


idk...i took two tests and got two different things


Type 1: 5 /// Type 1: 2
Type 2: -4 /// Type 2: 2
Type 3: -2 /// Type 3: 6
Type 4: 2 /// Type 4: 5
Type 5: 6 /// Type 5: 5
Type 6: -6 /// Type 6: 4
Type 7: 3 /// Type 7: 4
Type 8: -4 /// Type 8: 6
Type 9: 0 /// Type 9: 2


what the deuce?

i just read through the descriptions for each and then decided which one was me (no tests).

seeing that you're ENTP i would start with reading type 7...
 

Llewellyn

New member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
330
MBTI Type
INtj
Enneagram
9w1
Let's say for the sake of argument that MBTT f. order is valid (Which I don't believe.)

In that case, the INTP's Ti would so overpower the INFP's Te that orientation becomes irrelevant.

Arguing for something you don't believe? So INTP :)
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
I dunno about the system being a good one at all. I think I just got one of those lucky slots where everything seemed to fit me to a T. I relate 10x more to my enneagram type than I do my MBTI type (or any MBTI type to be more specific). I had to settle for what sounded the MOST like me, whereas on enneagrams I had a clear "This is definitely me through and through" response.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Enneagram is a great system. Most people who think otherwise haven't bothered to look into it.

I was mistaken about my type before, I'm 9w8 sx/so. Describes me much better than MBTI does.
 

iamathousandapples

New member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
495
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
5w6
I dunno about the system being a good one at all. I think I just got one of those lucky slots where everything seemed to fit me to a T. I relate 10x more to my enneagram type than I do my MBTI type (or any MBTI type to be more specific). I had to settle for what sounded the MOST like me, whereas on enneagrams I had a clear "This is definitely me through and through" response.
I'm totally seconding that one. 5w6 sp/sx/so matches me at least 10 times better than the ISTP definition, or the INTP definition for that matter.
 

psyche

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
86
Do you really think Enneagram is a good system? It seems very different from MBTI for damn sure. It strikes me as being unscientific and almost like astrology.

With that said, I took two enneagram tests and scored the same both times in my dominant type, differently with the wings though. Both times I got 9 as the most dominant, but I also scored with 5 trailing behind by a super thin margin of about .3 points. It seems as if they only consider the one that gets the most points, but shouldn't it also consider traits of your second strongest type? I agree with the 9 dominance though. I do like to keep the peace when I can, when the truth isn't being beat on. In fact, I'd say it's probably what sets me apart from other INTP's sometimes; others on here have noted my attitude can be very atypical of an INTP. It is my understanding that most INTP's are primarily 5's?

The second time I tested (and I believe the second test was more thorough and accurate) I got a wing of 8, which I also agree with. That would probably be evident by the nature of my political posts :p . Either way, I can see these things don't go nearly as deep as MBTI, and it really seems like your dominant type would be subject to changing quite often... or maybe theres more to the types that I haven't yet read up on that makes them a bit more concrete.


I haven't read through all the postings on this thread so I apologize if this has already been addressed.

I think it's vital to differentiate between the SYSTEM of the E and the TESTING of the system. I have found the system to be personally and professionally transformational, much more so than the MBTI even. It's highly differentiated once you get to understand it and, imo, is incredibly accurate at describing personality, ego motivations, etc. The tests have yet to be refined enough to be particularly accurate in their results. I'd suggest learning about the system in much more depth before making an assumption about its value or applicability.
 

speculative

Feelin' FiNe
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
927
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
I have found the Enneagram system much more helpful than the MBTI in helping me grow personally. I often post here not realizing that I'm talking about my E-type instead of my MBTI type. I do think the Enneagram system can be hard to understand due to its complexity though. Each type has 9 level of health and moves to other types, so it's a system constantly in motion. That is the system's connection to the actual symbol of the Enneagram.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I'm E7, which is a lot like ESTP, my "shadow" type. How can playfulness and overwhelming optimism be a bad thing? When it keeps you from taking needed action. Like..."My kid's just immature. Surely nothing REALLY bad can be going on..." or "I'm sure that pain in my side will just go away...why see a doctor..." or "No need to rehash what happened, I'll just find better ways next time..." And so on. It's almost easy to see when the trap is kicking in. For ISTJs, though, for example, who have a perfectionist Enneagram type (I think that's 3's???) it can be way harder to see what is going on...

So these counselors aren't picking either MBTI or Enneagram but taking a both/and approach

About the E7 example, wow. Yes.
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

New member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
1,458
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
I assumed it was hokum too, for many of the same reasons people have expressed, but 7 describes me so well. Whittle that down to 7w6, and I start thinking someone has been reading my diary (if I kept a diary, which I don't).
 

speculative

Feelin' FiNe
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
927
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
How many of those who think the Enneagram is helpful have used the personal growth recommendations (among other things) to move up in levels of health and in their direction of integration?

How many who haven't found the Enneagram helpful don't know what I'm talking about?
 
B

brainheart

Guest
I read some of Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Riso and Hudson yesterday and I'm thinking it's superior to MBTI. I think MBTI gets too caught up in the differences (so easy to become absorbed in S vs N, T vs F, etc), while enneagram seems more holistic.

Four fits me so well- I can look at the health levels and easily see where I am and what I need to focus on vs becoming absorbed with the triviality of whether I use Se or Ne. Sure, I could spend time wondering whether I am a three or a five wing or what the order of my instinctual variants is, but it's not something that is required in order for me to benefit.

I think it's a lot easier for you to type yourself with it- well, it is for me, anyway.
 

evilrobot

New member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
182
MBTI Type
nite
Enneagram
5w4
I read some of Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Riso and Hudson yesterday and I'm thinking it's superior to MBTI. I think MBTI gets too caught up in the differences (so easy to become absorbed in S vs N, T vs F, etc), while enneagram seems more holistic.


It provides more insight than the mbti, provided you’re someone who happens to fit well into one of the types/subtypes.
 

compulsiverambler

New member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
446
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
The diagrams and explanations here under 'What is the Enneagram' show the underlying structure. That helps to stop the wings from seeming arbitrary, to me anyway. The Australian Enneagram Community (AEC).

In terms of usefulness, I think Myers-Briggs and related theories are better for interpersonal issues as well as educational ones, and the Enneagram is better for intrapersonal stuff.
 

Chloe

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
2,196
My counselor friends who use MBTI/Enneagram together say

  • MBTI captures normal strengths while Enneagram captures coping mechanisms--what you do when you're masking/protecting yourself
  • There are no good Enneagram assessments as they all pick up "MBTI" noise. Helen Palmer whose books jumpstarted current Enneagram use claimed that you needed to attend workshops and hear people of all 9 types present, ask questions, and use that info to find your Enneagram type
  • If a person begins to recognize when they're relying on Enneagram coping mechanisms rather than leading from their personality they can begin to escape self-defeating patterns
  • Any MBTI type can be any Enneagram type, but they reinforce/contradict in varying magnitudes. Sometimes they're like type/shadow partners and sometimes the enneagram is very similar to type.
  • Another way to look at Enneagram is the biggest trap you fall into.

I'm E7, which is a lot like ESTP, my "shadow" type. How can playfulness and overwhelming optimism be a bad thing? When it keeps you from taking needed action. Like..."My kid's just immature. Surely nothing REALLY bad can be going on..." or "I'm sure that pain in my side will just go away...why see a doctor..." or "No need to rehash what happened, I'll just find better ways next time..." And so on. It's almost easy to see when the trap is kicking in. For ISTJs, though, for example, who have a perfectionist Enneagram type (I think that's 1's???) it can be way harder to see what is going on...

So these counselors aren't picking either MBTI or Enneagram but taking a both/and approach


excellent post and sums it up the whole relation between enneagram and mbti, also enneagram is very useful if you go deeper in it and actually expirience all described defenses for your type within you

EDIT: it's not surprise that this excellent post is written by no more or less but president of association of psychology types international, edcoaching. it's obvious when someone rare on this forum really knows it.


btw. the thing edcoaching was talking about is all from book "three keys to self-understanding" -pat wyman

I for example as ENFP and E3 (who best correspond imo to ESTJ), expirience huge switches in my personality when stressed. When I'm stressed I'm more in 3 mood -making billion of plans about billion of stuff that i'll achieve at (all goal oriented, enjoying is not on 1st place), try to be very busy and business-like, formal, then if that doesnt work for some reason (probably because i'm not dealing with inital stress or troubled situation in right way, instead of defending over E3), I went to E9 and go to totally "dont care about anything, i just wanna sleep" mode.
it's literally the same way each time person is under stress. people who have very different enneagram type and MBTI type notice this shift easier because they tend to act "not like themselves" under stress, though some people actually figure out that they've been acting whole life as their E-type, a defense. If you're ex. ENFP and E7 your defense is very similar to true self, but again it's equally unhealthy just less noticable.
Many internal conflicts people have are usually linked to this. Like if you're S type and E4, or P and E1, E and E9/5, I and E3/7/8. F and 8,3 etc. T and E4...
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
How many of those who think the Enneagram is helpful have used the personal growth recommendations (among other things) to move up in levels of health and in their direction of integration?

How many who haven't found the Enneagram helpful don't know what I'm talking about?

ive used it for personal growth. its very useful for identifying my least effective "mental habits". the growth levels give good examples to aspire or avoid. As enneagram 1, ive basically learned to be more accepting of life, as it is: "just accept what is, rather than worry about what should be..."

I read some of Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Riso and Hudson yesterday and I'm thinking it's superior to MBTI. I think MBTI gets too caught up in the differences (so easy to become absorbed in S vs N, T vs F, etc), while enneagram seems more holistic.

Four fits me so well- I can look at the health levels and easily see where I am and what I need to focus on vs becoming absorbed with the triviality of whether I use Se or Ne. Sure, I could spend time wondering whether I am a three or a five wing or what the order of my instinctual variants is, but it's not something that is required in order for me to benefit.

I think it's a lot easier for you to type yourself with it- well, it is for me, anyway.

I agree. When i hadnt really looked into it, I quickly settled as 8. But when i actually read up about it, it was an easy typing. Much easier than MBTI. I still feel 100% positive about 1w9 sp/sx. I actually feel like its a better approximation of myself than my MBTI. My mbti type only gives me 80-90% confidence. I base this on the problem of S vs N and T vs F. The enneagram is just this nice big picture that is still specific enough to avoid astrological confirmation bias. Its also more based on your actions rather than "thought patterns" like MBTI claims to be (easier to type yourself)...
 

Asterion

Ruler of the Stars
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
2,331
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think the enneagram is really logical, you start with a primary motivation, (like for example enneagram 5s need for compentance), then you look at which triad such a type is in:

2, 3 and 4 are heart types and feel shame etc.
5, 6 and 7 are head types and feel anxiety
8, 9 and 1 are gut types and feel anger

The motivations and the triads are directly related, for E5, they strive to be competant because when they're not they feel anxious, E2 feels shame unless they feel that they are worth something to other people, E8 desires control of the world around them and gets angry when they don't have it.

Then you've got wings (which are quite clear, and unlike what most people think, do actually work and make sense), and then you've got instincts, and then integration, disintegration and health levels (which also add quite a lot to the types).

Blackcats probably explained all of this in his threads (which I'm yet to look at, but I'm getting to it). But anyway, the enneagram is far deeper than most seem to think, it has a lot of reasoning behind it. MBTI is just what it says it is... a type indicator. Cognitive functions and theory does have a bit more depth to it though, which I think socionics explains and uses quite well :)
 

Chloe

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
2,196
But anyway, the enneagram is far deeper than most seem to think, it has a lot of reasoning behind it.

i agree with this, enneagram is very helpful. people who dont see it either didnt look deep enough in enneagram, or they've ran across bad material. there are many useless descriptions of enneatypes who focus more on traits and not enough on core fixations.

MBTI is just what it says it is... a type indicator. Cognitive functions and theory does have a bit more depth to it though, which I think socionics explains and uses quite well :)

This too, MBTI isn't to me as useful as it looks in the beginning. It's more useful for understanding relationship or quick understanding of others than it's for self-development. Though combined with Enneagram it is useful, but i prefer enneagram.
 

compulsiverambler

New member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
446
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
In terms of usefulness, I think Myers-Briggs and related theories are better for interpersonal issues as well as educational ones, and the Enneagram is better for intrapersonal stuff.
I take that back, the Enneagram has since helped me understand the troubled relationship and cognitive dissonance I have with one particular person (an average Eight) far, far better than Jungian-based typologies ever have. I have a lot more sympathy for them now.
 
Top