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[Traditional Enneagram] STACKEMUP TYPOLOGY (ENNEAGRAM-SIDE) VS. R & H

Tomb1

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In looking at the hardrive for the inner logic of each enneagram type, Stackemup Typology (Enneagram-side) identifies the hard-drives as core distortions. R & H identifies the hard-drives as fear motives.

Stackemup Typology: Distortions
R & H: Fear
(Naranjo: Passions/vices)

In my core primer for all the gestalts, Stackemup Typology (Enneagram-side) laid out the core distortions for all nine enneagram types (nobody before had been able to do so):

Type 2: "I"m not capable of validating myself."
Type 3: "I am a superior being."
Type 4: "I am an ugly duckling; defective."
Type 5: "There's a gulf/separation between my mind and the physical world around me."
Type 6: "the world is a dangerous place."
Type 7: "God is against me. I am against God."
Type 8: "Might makes right."
Type 9: This point on the enneagram has no in-built distortion; the core approach is vacillation
Type 1: "somebody must be punished for the world's imperfections and flaws."


A Primer On The Core Gestalts For Each E-Type And More

CANON NUMBER 1 OF TYPOLOGICAL CONSTRUCTION: YOU CANNOT HAVE TWO DIFFERENT PERSONALITY STYLES WITH THE SAME CORE DISTORTION.

My approach is clearly the correct one.

R & H's descriptions in PTypes entangles multiple types into single types and represents every type as driven by fear. fear of failure (threes) fear of losing support (six) fear of, fear of....Essentially, R & H took Naranjo's Six and turned that into all nine of their enneagram types. That's the flaw in R & H's system and its a major one. For example, the R & H's three is driven by a fear of failure. So the average to below average levels of health are predicated upon the 3's contraphobic reaction to its fear of failure, until finally, it either succumbs to its fear of failure in the lowest levels or gets out of its fear loopp in the highest levels. This is the pattern for every type in R & H. THAT MAKES EVERY TYPE IN R & H A SIX...that's the major flaw in R & H's approach. R & H is fundamentally incapable of conceiving of personality type as having any other root but fear.

R & H also sold the enneagram out when they endorsed the Fauvre's Tritype which is patronizing towards people who actually suffer from multiple personality disorder. Right, because it's a foregone conclusion that three different personality types cannot co-exist in the same person unless that person suffers from multiple personality disorder. Mountains of research already show that this doesn't happen absent extraordinary sexual and/or physical abuse in childhood. Until the fauvres can come forward with evidence to contradict that, the chance that everybody on the planet has multiple personality disorder is extremely low.

Just to drive the point home I can back my approach up with a 2500+ exemplars breakdown. Neither R & H nor Naranjo presented any type of systematic breakdown for every type wing and stack. If they don't have a vision for every type wing and stack, the rest is window dressing. I've also got the only valid VI typing model for all stackings. I'm beating the hell out of them in terms of substance.
 

hjgbujhghg

I am
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sx/so
Everyone is broken. I think not.

Well, that's kinda' the point of Enneagram, isn't it? I'm not saying it's right, just that the theory revolves around it. It also gives you plenty of space to self improvement and growth and directs you towards it.
 

Luminous

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Type 7: "God is against me. I am against God."

:dry:

So is this going to be a pay per view? Boxing? Ultimate fighting? Wrestling? Ooooh, maybe a ladder match?
 

Amberiat

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My approach is clearly the correct one.
I've also got the only valid VI typing model for all stackings. I'm beating the hell out of them in terms of substance.

giphy.gif
 

Tomb1

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If you disagree with Stackemup Typology (Enneagram-Side)'s approach, please produce a 2500+ exemplar breakdown for every type wing and stack for prequalification to disagree. If your breakdown is half-way decent (though there's none except mine which is valid), I will give your point serious consideration. Otherwise a house without a foundation is deemed a castle in the sky.

Tell you what, as a running special, I am willing to lower the price of admission to just a decent 1500+ exemplar breakdown for every type wing and stack.

In other words, back your disagreement up with substance so that everybody knows that your disagreement isn't just based on false pride (or something hollow like that).

Okay okay, I'll do even one better, if you don't have your own list, please email whichever author you wish to advocate for (R & H, Fauvres, Naranjo, Palmer) and tell 'em to send you over their 2500+ exemplar breakdown for every type wing and stack, give or take 500+ exemplars.
 

miss deceit

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I don't see why anyone takes these narcissistic ramblings from Tomb seriously.
 

Tomb1

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In Stackemup Typology (enneagram-side), fear is only part of the trait structure for type six. For R & H, fear is part of the trait/psychic structure of every type. R & H's position is absurd. Furthermore, R & H entangles multiple types into single types. Real quick, I'll own R & H on its description of type 3.

Let's turn to R & H's core primer for Type 3 found on the enneagraminstitute.com site:

Basic Fear: Of being worthless
Basic Desire: To feel valuable and worthwhile
Enneagram Three with a Two-Wing: "The Charmer"
Enneagram Three with a Four-Wing: "The Professional"
Key Motivations: Want to be affirmed, to distinguish themselves from others, to have attention, to be admired, and to impress others.

In R & H, the fear "of being worthless" drives threes to "make sure their lives are a success." According to R & H, "[Threes] want success because they are afraid of disappearing into a chasm of emptiness and worthlessness: without the increased attention and feeling of accomplishment which success usually brings, Threes fear that they are nobody and have no value."

R & H has the enneatype all wrong. FEAR IS NOT AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE TRAIT/PSYCHIC STRUCTURE OF THE TYPE THREE PERSONALITY STYLE.
R & H has simply described a six whose central fear trait has been sublimated into/engulfed by issues regarding success-failure.

Let's turn to Stackemup Typology (Enneagram)'s core primer for Type 3:

Type 3: The Self-Confident Gestalt.
Core Strategy: Outshining others
Core Distortion: “I am a superior being.”
Area of fixation: Expansion/Fantasy
Core Action Set: putting others on notice that they are a superior being and admiration their due, that others need to be rolling out the red carpet for them.
DSM Correlate: Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Core Trap: Weaving together new fantastic rationales for their circumstances in order to recast themselves as the star.
Core Vulnerability: disdain from others
2 wingers are hyper-competitive, bragging, skilled at gamesmanship, and political (they know how to work and motivate people).
4 wingers are poised, calculating, efficient and oriented towards outward self-improvement.

In Stackemup Typology, the distortion of "I am a Superior Being" drives the three to "seek out the admiration that they believe others owe them."

A Primer On The Core Gestalts For Each E-Type And More
Stackemup Enneagram Description For Enneatype III

Fear is no way intricate to the trait/psychic structure because 3s are not working out of a distortion that "the world is a dangerous place"(like type 6).

R & H's type 3 description also entangles multiple types. I've already demonstrated the entanglement of type six into that type and all of R & H's types.

But R & H also cannot provide a sufficient explanation for R & H's type 3 arrogance. Given that R & H's three is "pursuing the values that others reward," there's no logical explanation for how the type ends up as the most arrogant type in R & H's enneagram! The assertion of a causal relationship between these two phenomenon is nothing short of fantastical. Arrogance and contempt for others is clearly type 3, but "pursuing the values that others reward" gets into type 9. R & H tries to fill in this description hole with a pop-throwaway that "arrogance and contempt for others is a defense against feeling jealous of others and their success" but that's just a Red Herring. You could just as easily say that every type experiences arrogance and contempt for those who appear to have what they want.

In Stackemup Typology (Enneagram-Side), the 3's arrogance arises out of "their own cocksure belief of their superiority." Unlike R & H's description for type 3, Arrogance in the Stackemup 3 follows logically from the Stackemup 3's core distortion that "I am a superior being," as follows:

Three are cocky. The admiration they receive through success cements their own cocksure belief of their superiority. They start to give others the impression that it's a pleasure to do business with the three as if others ought to be willing to take less just to have that luxury. Their former self-confidence is replaced by arrogance. They have begun to rationalize their failures. They spend a lot of time making their failures seem like successes.

My description makes sense....it just has a ring of truth to it. R & H's description for type 3 sloppily combines E6 (fear trait), E3 (Arrogance), and E9 (merging with others' agenda) into one type description.
 

Tomb1

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Let's turn to R & H's core primer for Type 2 found on the enneagraminstitute.com site:

Basic Fear: Of being unwanted, unworthy of being loved
Basic Desire: To feel loved
Enneagram Two with a One-Wing: "Servant"
Enneagram Two with a Three-Wing: "The Host/Hostess"

In R & H, the fear "of being unwanted, unworthy of love" drives twos to "going out of their way for others" and "always putting others first." According to R & H, twos behavior is grounded in an underlying "fear of worthlessness."

R & H has the enneatype all wrong. FEAR IS NOT AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE TRAIT/PSYCHIC STRUCTURE OF THE TYPE TWO PERSONALITY STYLE.
R & H has simply described a six whose central fear trait has been sublimated into/engulfed by issues regarding love and worth.

Let's turn to Stackemup Typology (Enneagram)'s core primer for Type 2:

Type 2: The Seductive Gestalt
Core Strategy: Winning people over
Core Distortion: “I am not capable of validating myself.”
Area of fixation: Manipulation
Core Action Set: adapting themselves to others in the anticipation that they will be rejected if they do not and approaching interpersonal relations through “maneuvers.”
DSM Correlate: Histrionic Personality Disorder
Core trap: encroaching on people’s boundaries and trying to coerce them into doing things that will make the two feel validated.
Core Vulnerability: Rejection; indifference.
1 wingers are altruistic, serious, argumentative and often outspoken. 3 wingers are charming, fickle, and clingy.

In Stackemup Typology (enneagram-side), the distortion that "I am not capable of validating myself" drives the twos to "adapt themselves to others in the anticipation that they will be rejected and approach interpersonal relations through 'maneuvers'....designed to elicit love, attention and approval."

Fear is no way intricate to the trait/psychic structure because 2s are not working out of a distortion that "the world is a dangerous place" (like type 6).

Stackemup Typology is the first of the enneagram schools of thought to account for each type through distortions (as well as the first of the enneagram schools of thought to type enneagram styles by gestalt). When I say first that also includes a comprehensive elaboration on both the distortions for each enneagram type and the gestalt for each enneagram type.

a plethora of type 2 examples:

Type Exemplars (Youtube Included) - Stackemup Typology — LiveJournal

See my type two description below:

"Twos are sociable, energetic and friendly people who strive to be loved and approved of. They want to be needed and seen as indispensable in the lives of others. They have given up on their desire for mirroring because it wasn't given to them in childhood. So they seek love by giving others the mirroring that they were deprived of. Twos aren't wired to compromise/negotiate/bargain with the world in order to do so, though, but attempt to seductively maneuver others into a spot of dependence, maintaining themselves in the willful position.

Twos are other-directed. They are unable to approve of themselves internally therefore approval and validation has to be bestowed upon them by others. As a result, Twos turn their attention outwards and have difficulty forming an identity that is separate from other people. This “other-directed tendency” makes Twos vulnerable to the dispositions of other people but also gives them sensitivity for the thoughts and feelings of..."


Stackemup Enneagram Description for Enneatype II
 

KitchenFly

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I have just started to read your work. It is a lot of content to take in and construct the context of understanding you are hoping the reader will retain and understand. I am curious, what is your sonics type? This insight maybe helpful for me to contextually understand your cognitive viewpoints.

I would like to ask you questions about how the sonics system works if you are open to shearing structural knowledge. Just basic stuff that it seems the reader should already know.

As an example, I have started my Jerney hear, Socionics quadra descriptions. I am thinking it may be like the four quadrants of the Hole Brain Thinking Model. I can't get into context the terms or statements like

Delta types are those with Fi-Te & Ne-Si as their oscillation pairs.
Beta types are those with Ti-Fe & Se-Ni as their oscillation pairs.
Alpha types are those with Ti-Fe & Ne-Si as their oscillation pairs.
Gamma types are those with Fi-Te & Se-Ni as their oscillation pairs.

Oscillation pairs.


Are oscillating pairs like two ends of a seesaw like a divide or a multiplicity? Or like a binary pole like a north pole south pole? Or is it simply like a chemistry thing each compound must have a minimum of two components in order to generate a relationship? Like a contrast to relate to the contrast of mind and observed environment, or simply put self and other. With differentiations.

My simple thinking has me wondering. If I am an INFP is one of my oscillation pairs Fi-Ne? If I am a 9w1 could another one-off my oscillation pairs be Fi-Te and if I am a 9w1w8 could six of my oscillation pairs be as listed directly below or is sonics a completely different system with no mechanical link to the operations of the Enneagram of Personality model?

Or have I stumbled on one of many new layers of possibly viewing, minds operations?

- Fi-Ne (9w1)
- Te-Si (1w2)
- Te-Si-ambidexters-Ni (1w9)
- Fe-Si (8w9)
- Se-Ti (8w7)
- Ni-Fe (9w8)

with actions like Fi-Te & Ne-Si for the (9w1) as an - (INFP & ESTJ) combined. Is this more like what an oscillation pair is meant to be Tomb 1?



I am a bit of a simpleton so please be forgiving of my lack of up to speed general understanding.

Must also say while reading your descriptions I was impressed by your vocabulary. Usage of a large descriptive vocabulary is not one of my strengths.

Thanks @Tomb 1

I am starting to think AI learning models may be needed to unravel the possible complexities of sonics and the enneagram and the MBTI and the Hole Brain Thinking Model and including the brains chemistry's role are to be all correlated as one working model of the human mind's operations. It all gets so complex so quickly. I don't feel scared because I have an ego to protect me and point nine. Point nine connects me to my authentic self a deep knowing that thinks at the sub-Conches level via VI points called the Helix. Thinking at the metaphysical level not thinking at the egoic minds level lead via a trinary of three triads. The law of three helps us free the self by the magnetic lock of the egoic trance viewpoint.

To cognitively view all via (sense-feel-think) at the instinctual level, both negatively and positively, without bias, is that linked to the operations of the VI you speak of?


Type 9: This point on the enneagram has no in-built distortion; the core approach is vacillation.
 
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Tomb1

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Jun 15, 2011
Messages
1,002
I have just started to read your work. It is a lot of content to take in and construct the context of understanding you are hoping the reader will retain and understand. I am curious, what is your sonics type? This insight maybe helpful for me to contextually understand your cognitive viewpoints.

I would like to ask you questions about how the sonics system works if you are open to shearing structural knowledge. Just basic stuff that it seems the reader should already know.

As an example, I have started my Jerney hear, Socionics quadra descriptions. I am thinking it may be like the four quadrants of the Hole Brain Thinking Model. I can't get into context the terms or statements like

Delta types are those with Fi-Te & Ne-Si as their oscillation pairs.
Beta types are those with Ti-Fe & Se-Ni as their oscillation pairs.
Alpha types are those with Ti-Fe & Ne-Si as their oscillation pairs.
Gamma types are those with Fi-Te & Se-Ni as their oscillation pairs.

Oscillation pairs.


Are oscillating pairs like two ends of a seesaw like a divide or a multiplicity? Or like a binary pole like a north pole south pole? Or is it simply like a chemistry thing each compound must have a minimum of two components in order to generate a relationship? Like a contrast to relate to the contrast of mind and observed environment, or simply put self and other. With differentiations.

My simple thinking has me wondering. If I am an INFP is one of my oscillation pairs Fi-Ne? If I am a 9w1 could another one-off my oscillation pairs be Fi-Te and if I am a 9w1w8 could six of my oscillation pairs be as listed directly below or is sonics a completely different system with no mechanical link to the operations of the Enneagram of Personality model?

Or have I stumbled on one of many new layers of possibly viewing, minds operations?

- Fi-Ne (9w1)
- Te-Si (1w2)
- Te-Si-ambidexters-Ni (1w9)
- Fe-Si (8w9)
- Se-Ti (8w7)
- Ni-Fe (9w8)

with actions like Fi-Te & Ne-Si for the (9w1) as an - (INFP & ESTJ) combined. Is this more like what an oscillation pair is meant to be Tomb 1?



I am a bit of a simpleton so please be forgiving of my lack of up to speed general understanding.

Must also say while reading your descriptions I was impressed by your vocabulary. Usage of a large descriptive vocabulary is not one of my strengths.

Thanks @Tomb 1

I am starting to think AI learning models may be needed to unravel the possible complexities of sonics and the enneagram and the MBTI and the Hole Brain Thinking Model and including the brains chemistry's role are to be all correlated as one working model of the human mind's operations. It all gets so complex so quickly. I don't feel scared because I have an ego to protect me and point nine. Point nine connects me to my authentic self a deep knowing that thinks at the sub-Conches level via VI points called the Helix. Thinking at the metaphysical level not thinking at the egoic minds level lead via a trinary of three triads. The law of three helps us free the self by the magnetic lock of the egoic trance viewpoint.

To cognitively view all via (sense-feel-think) at the instinctual level, both negatively and positively, without bias, is that linked to the operations of the VI you speak of?


Type 9: This point on the enneagram has no in-built distortion; the core approach is vacillation.

My socionics type is SLE-Ti.

Your best basic introduction to Stackemup Typology (Socionics-side) aka American Socionics is my thread laying out the core tenets of American Socionics. I posted it in the socionics forum some time ago. I do not know if it is still there but feel free to check that out for an introduction into ST (socionics side). The cognitive functions for each socionics type are best understood through Carl Jung's definitions. Actually, that is one of the core tenets of American Socionics.

I do not do Quadra Values. Socionists mistake the Reactive Triad with the Beta Quadra, the Postive-Reframing Triad with the Alpha Quadra, the Compliant Triad with the Delta Quadra and the Competency Triad with the Gamma Quadra. As for pairs, my socionics VI templates correspond with my breakdown for every type, wing and stack in a way that does not result in any of the impossible combinations (i.e. "INFp 8w7" or "ESTP 5w4")

As an Enneagram 9w1, you must be familiar with my Bliss Stream descriptions for each stacking of 9w1. If not, go check them out so that you can confirm your stacking in Stackemup Typology (Enneagram-side).
 

KitchenFly

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Thank you for answering my questions.

Can you give me a quick description of SLE I would imagine E is for extroversion am I correct. What is SL?
 

Tomb1

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Thank you for answering my questions.

Can you give me a quick description of SLE I would imagine E is for extroversion am I correct. What is SL?

SLE stands for Sensory-Logical- Extravert. SLE is also designated as ESTp but distinct from MBTI Socionics features Model A. The ego block is Se-Lead and Ti-Creative. SLE then has 2 subtypes, SLE-Ti and SLE-Se
 

KitchenFly

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Greate thanks. Do you identify yourself via the six instinctual variants? I'm seated in the Sx/Sp seat in the personal focus lead trinary grouping one of two in the enneagram model for understanding the structure of the six instinctual variants.

I have been investing some time thinking about the small amount I have absorbed of the sonics system you have presented.

I like similes and metaphors, I'm somewhat a global thinker. And the closest description for my impressions of sonics is thinking of it as like the demos layer of the body. Skin has its own direct contact with the ecosystem like ego has its direct first contact impression for mind in its mean state its general deal with it all phase of operation. Is that somewhat accurate as a rough layman simple impression of what the sonics layer of minds operation is?

And today I am thinking thoughts like if there are many mechanical layers in the chemistry supporting minds operations/cognition, maybe there is a chemical structure taking place wherein, all the differing systems for describing the flux/fluxes of minds personality are part of a/the vast support chemistry the body manifests/produces each night when we sleep for the next day's cognitive activities. I don't know if blood gasses, and electromagnetic activity are in volved or not, I say that because I watch an interest old school physicist talking about how atoms maybe metaphorically speaking solid/stable light. Light fixed within a form construct (solid light). Part of me thinks no light is a photon one of sixteen basic building blocks (well seventeen including the Higgs Boson) and a photon has its own field one of twenty-four fields and another part of me thought well maybe the twenty-four fields have a complex structure and atoms are like compounds chemical activity generated by a deeper synergy between the twenty-four fields. As is we detecting only a small spice of the spectrum of Field behaviours/activity. Somewhat like mind most people generally don't detect the implicate structures in play at work within personalities flux of activity.

Maybe sonics is somewhat like the Higgs field for egoic personality.

Is there an NLE-FI in the sonics system Tomb 1?

Do you think about this kind of thing do you know anything about this kind of thing Tomb 1? The brains cemetery and blood gas's role in Nuro-anatomy? I suspect not but I thought I would ask because that subject matter is in my field of curiosities.
 
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Tomb1

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Jun 15, 2011
Messages
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Greate thanks. Do you identify yourself via the six instinctual variants? I'm seated in the Sx/Sp seat in the personal focus lead trinary grouping one of two in the enneagram model for understanding the structure of the six instinctual variants.

I have been investing some time thinking about the small amount I have absorbed of the sonics system you have presented.

I like similes and metaphors, I'm somewhat a global thinker. And the closest description for my impressions of sonics is thinking of it as like the demos layer of the body. Skin has its own direct contact with the ecosystem like ego has its direct first contact impression for mind in its mean state its general deal with it all phase of operation. Is that somewhat accurate as a rough layman simple impression of what the sonics layer of minds operation is?

And today I am thinking thoughts like if there are many mechanical layers in the chemistry supporting minds operations/cognition, maybe there is a chemical structure taking place wherein, all the differing systems for describing the flux/fluxes of minds personality are part of a/the vast support chemistry the body manifests/produces each night when we sleep for the next day's cognitive activities. I don't know if blood gasses, and electromagnetic activity are in volved or not, I say that because I watch an interest old school physicist talking about how atoms maybe metaphorically speaking solid/stable light. Light fixed within a form construct (solid light). Part of me thinks no light is a photon one of sixteen basic building blocks (well seventeen including the Higgs Boson) and a photon has its own field one of twenty-four fields and another part of me thought well maybe the twenty-four fields have a complex structure and atoms are like compounds chemical activity generated by a deeper synergy between the twenty-four fields. As is we detecting only a small spice of the spectrum of Field behaviours/activity. Somewhat like mind most people generally don't detect the implicate structures in play at work within personalities flux of activity.

Maybe sonics is somewhat like the Higgs field for egoic personality.

Is there an NLE-FI in the sonics system Tomb 1?

Do you think about this kind of thing do you know anything about this kind of thing Tomb 1? The brains cemetery and blood gas's role in Nuro-anatomy? I suspect not but I thought I would ask because that subject matter is in my field of curiosities.
Hold on. Did you go and check out my Bliss Stream descriptions for 9w1 to confirm your stacking in Stackemup Typology (enneagram-side)?
 

KitchenFly

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Hold on. Did you go and check out my Bliss Stream descriptions for 9w1 to confirm your stacking in Stackemup Typology (enneagram-side)?


If this is it yes, I have read it and sheared my thoughts below.


Tomb 1 I corrected some of your spelling and grammar mistakes.

Type Nine


Nines are self-doubting. In the absence of hard proof, they have difficulty thinking/knowing and assume the position of sceptic. They are habitually uncertain about things they have every reason to be certain about. They want to find something they can trust in and look for proofs that will help them to stabilize their shaky sense of existence. They seek out substitutes for their inner guidance that they can reference internally for counsel, direction and advice. They have no trust in their ability to independently know and quickly need reassurances, but just as they have those reassurances quickly lose it.

I have read this, and I believe this is an inaccurate assessment of my personality as a Meen over the 57 seven years thus far. I can relate to all statements as being true in times of stress and uncertainty in the primary school age years of my phycological development. But because these statements above do not describe my cognition as a hole accurately in its normal everyday action, I would advise you seek help in contextualising your typology with more accuracies to reflect the cognition of type nines.

Nines are vacillating. Nines are the point on the enneagram that have no built-in distortion about the world. As a result, nines have difficult feeling that they know or can grasp the expectations of others and respond to the world with ambivalence, vacillation and doubt. As a result, nines seek out external systems that will ground them with a sense of what to expect from the world and the people in it. Beliefs, rules, codes, customs, become very important to to Nines and they look to outer authorities and leaders for guidance and invest a great deal of importance in those beliefs.

This is somewhat true, but it contradicts itself as a statement. Nines due to there no built-in distortion about the world as you say, do have or can have some difficulties yielding and trusting the authority of adults and there dictates as peer leaders. Nines are more influenced by their sub-Conches lens. Being trained to prompted to abandon this innate ability rather than trust and develop it is generating turbulence and insurgency within the inner world of the nine. I myself in primary school had to place several teachers and my parent into close contact with their own sub-Conches lens viewpoint via invoking receptivity with other, receptivity of a spiritual order in order to press the point that I will not suspend my viewpoint. Nines do seek knowledge to build an understanding for developing an understanding of the biases and political biases viewpoint of the collective egoic viewpoints. Nines can be slow to embrace and develop their own expression of phycological corruption and to play the game with mind les fluency. But given time nine do yield and they to also loose primary contact with authentic self.

Nines are fatalistic. They become fixated on finding a magical/powerful figure that can take on responsibility for key areas of their life. The powerful figure works as a buffer to take control of things that nines feel they are at the mercy of. Essentially, the magical figure is somebody that will one day show up to make the nine's life complete and give them the motivation to actually take action and exert their will. Until that time, nines are content to remain complacent.

This is primarily true for underdeveloped nines but not all nines. I am certainly not fatalistic. I find that attitude in others offensive and have had to discipline my auto reaction in order to understand with understanding the nature of the overcompensation. Fatalistic tendency often comes from sensing at the instinctual level from point seven of the helix.

I am noting that you over rely on you 9w8 Point of stress. You start each paragraph statement with an INFJ viewpoint lead statement. And your typology has a 9w8 viewpoint. The words imbalance bias come to mind. I would recommend reading Don Risso's typologies. He had a knack of knitting a continuity of expressing all nine-point energy viewpoint expressions into the flow of his typologies. Personality Types - first edition, is a fine example. It induces a sense in the reader of the three energies of Id Ego and Supper ego and the diversity between the nine energies. Ask your Dominatrix to set some reading homework for you to complete.




Nines are inert. They are unable to see life from a "I can do it" point of view as everything just seems hopeless. They justify their lack of action as simply being too much trouble to do or annoying. They can take action for the benefit of others but not for their own. They say no to things outside of their comfort zone and report not feeling good enough. They indulge in magical thinking believing that the great things in life they desire will just happen one day. They put off important decisions to attend to their responsibilities to others and never feel like doing much of anything. They simply become stuck in routines and habits, "sleepwalking" through events.

Inert, lacking the ability or strength to move.

Once again you are describing the werst as the totality. You are lacking context in your typology. Shore nines have difficulty with apathy and indolence, but the majority of nines grow out of it and adapt to the rigors of life demands. I don't see institutions sanatoriums a cross my nation full of ineffective nines incapable functioning be nursed and feed phytopharmaceuticals as a last resort measure.


Nines are dependent. In order to bring a magical figure into their lives, they instinctively avoid their own autonomy. In response to the fear of losing the support of other's nines suppress their own wilfulness in order to go with the flow, to stay merged with the agenda of others and to suppress their own 'inner voice’; to avoid conflict and to remain in a state of inaction. The end result is that they are out of touch with inner guidance and look for others to provide them with mental reassurance. They forget themselves. They go on autopilot. They fall asleep, so to speak. A process of deterioration in their ability to think abstractly occurs. They find it easier to just adopt group sentiments or sentiments by others.

Nines are dependent. In order to bring a magical figure into their lives, they instinctively avoid their own autonomy. I am starting to feel a loss of Pashence Tomb 1.

This is just crappy pen ship. I just feel like I want to taser you! You are bringing out the INFJ within me.

How about correcting the statement nines are dependant. Every dependant person I see is not a nine. When someone stands in a supermarket line perching their weekly groceries am I to think Ow My God another line of dependant nines. All too lazy to grow their own produce.

Maybe you should say, Nines acting habitually from the behaviours and attitudes of their lower levels there unhealth levels of health (R&H nine levels of development.) Nines can exhibit a habitual degree of co-dependency. Nine can be viewed as being dependant personalities dependent upon others. They fane regency in need. Depending upon others to fill the agency of urgent resolution provider. Nines are dependent. Or can be thought of as being dependant. In order to bring a magical figure into their lives, they instinctively avoid their own autonomy. Unhealth nines can tend to manipulate intelligence in order to solicit a desired response a response that caters to their co dependence to resolve problems that require an analytical response. Emotional inflation distracts and inhibits type nines from actively utilising there third and fourth preferences respectively for both the 9w8 and 9w1. Sensing and Thinking for the 9w1 and Thinking and Sensing for the 9w8.


Healthy nines are in touch with inner clarity, awake to their own autonomy. As a result, they become better able to take action and come into contact with their inner guidance. The less they look for a magical figure outside of themselves, the completer and more whole they start to experience themselves as. Autonomy emerges. By re-owning their power, they gain a sense of control over the direction of their life and a sense of freedom from the agenda of others. They become more self-reliant and perhaps give off, at a subconscious level, the most naturally endearing quality of all the types.

That's not too bad but it's still wonky. You are not pointing out that they need to develop and learn to balance via usage the I, E, S, N, T, F, P, J functions. Nines like all the types don't have a perfect balance between the eight functions of I, E, S, N, T, F, P, J. Nines for whatever reason like all types need to work on developing and integrating all eight functions especially the third and fourth preferred otherwise they are utilised negatively in personality expression. S and T and T and S subjective thinking and thinking subjectively are the Achilles heel for both type nines and all twelve variants of the type nine. Some variants have an easier time of adjusting over the others, but it is evened out because life requires the input awareness from all six instinctual variants.

9w8s are earthy. They are typically an apolitical type, identifying strongly with nature. They have a slyer sense of humour blended in street smarts. They shun bringing attention to themselves and like to run their operations more underground. They are a more down to earth nine still insightful who have an ability to build up the egos of others. They are often very intuitive. They put emphasis on not sticking out and getting more in touch with nature. Their internal experience diffuses more into universals even as they poeticize the crude. Doubts they have about their sponsors or experts can always be projected onto scapegoats. They tend towards being terse. They can be difficult to understand but not because they say too much, rather that they say too little. Their thinking favours repetition and memorization. They focus a lot of attention to energy and body language.

9w8s are stubborn. They are more about holding the line. They stick more fervently to their own principles even when it's at odds with the times, very often giving them a more old-school quality. They dip threats in olive oil and size people up by whether the person can stay within the forms of that occasion without breaking. They stabilize and gain advantage over competitors by setting up "walls" that push competition out and erode the possibilities.

9w8s are reliable. They jump through hoops for people and take hits for the team. They know what to do without having to take direction. They are quick to volunteer themselves for tasks and don't have a problem helping others to further their agenda. They often function as "middlemen" in the distribution of new ideas. They have a compulsion to remind people of stuff and to constantly try and check in with people to make sure things are all right. They are strongly attuned to people's appetites.

9w8s are protective. They are shaken by the horrors of the world and are often the first to advance onto the front-lines willing to sacrifice themselves or whatever power they have at their disposal in order to make a difference. When tragic things happen, they sometimes lament over "what a sick world it is." They put more responsibility on themselves to help make it better. They do things for the benefit of others even more than they do for themselves. They will seek out interdependent relationships between equals who will join them in doing the same. They will come up with or adapt ideas that can be used to deter denigration, insensitivity and other abuses of power. They are big on human rights. Some devote their lives to humanitarian causes finding assurances for their passive/aggressive ambivalence by fighting for justice on behalf of the weak believing it their duty.

9w1s are critical. They have a stronger sense of self-condemnation. They are more impotent in their anger than 8 wingers. They compartmentalize their anger so as to responsibly do their part. They often don't take well to ideas or assertions that disrupt their sense for the objective reality.

9w1s are conformist. They are highly deferential to authority. They look to the authorities to provide them shelter on a whole array of things from what to think to what to wear. They seek out causes, missions, ideologies, organizations etc they can wholeheartedly dedicate themselves to. They like to be part of something bigger than themselves. They show their loyalty by doing what they believe people expect of them and by suppressing any doubts they may have in order to maintain a loyal and partisan stance. They become guardians of the beliefs that they depend on for grounding and build up a pride and mutual admiration for those ideas and people associated with it. They overcommit themselves to the extent their personal lives take a back seat so that they can diligently do their part to extend the legacy of others.

9w1s are normative. Their perceptions of the environment are organized around reflexively defending a status quo. They are easily triggered by people whose opinions are subversive to ideas that conflict with the status quo, and often respond to such subversions as if they were attacks upon themselves. They take it upon themselves to try to ostracize and take on those whose opinions lack a sense of decency and conflict with sentiments and thought-terminating cliches the 9w1 has internalized. Their sense of decency is based upon their own emotive connections to how their fellow 'victims-in-arms' (past or present, living or dead) would feel about it, and for the 9w1 censorship based around that standard of decency supersedes free speech.

Twos are assertive in their other seeking. Nines are fatalistic in their other seeking.

Nines are modest. Threes are egotistical.

Fours are pathologically self-referential. Nines can't sustain self-reference for too long.

Fives are more certain. Nines doubtful.

Sixes are reactive. Nines grounded.

Rebelling is a way of life for Sevens. Nines vacillate between conformity and rebellion.

Eights are independent-minded. Nines seek mental reassurances.

Nines see more points of view than Ones do. Ones are more fanatical.


Your descriptions of the 9w8 and 9w1 are ok-Ish. I as a Sx/Sp 9w1 certainly do not agree with your depiction of the conformist the loyal devoted 9w1 who loves and seeks to serve his or her community because I feel so dependant I could not exist without its constructs. I'm all for synergy. But I don't efface my agenda to serve and preserve and promote institutions causes or anything else. I am passionate about the enneagram and passionate about building an understanding of minds structures, but that passion is shared by all types who have a similar interest. but having said that I do see the ok-ish-ness of your 9w8 and 9w1 typologies but to say that 9w8's are more down to earth and grounded that 9w1 is not what I have found. So, of my 9w8 friends have been quite confused and uncomfortable within their own skins. My two best friends from school age years sleeked a friendship from me in the hope that they would learn how to be more grounded and down to earth.

Being grounded and down to earth is easier via FI rather than Ni.

What I do agree with is 9w8 are more grounded in their ability to bond with others at a social level they seem to relate with ease rather than with blocks. I think it's the Ni first FE second and TE third for the 9w8 and the SE as last that makes them somewhat edgy.

The 9w1 has FI first and NE second and that allow then to observe and build understandings about their environment. 9w1 have SE third and TE last. The supports the first and third but having TE Last makes it difficult to differentiate in judgment between that is natural and that is egoic. 9w1 feel inner conflictions. Should I go along with others in order to fit in or should I stand firm with identifying what real, the two are very different. The natural word and the world view formed via the egoic mind are different. 9w1 feel confused about their view because they want to trust other people, but they want to trust their instinctual awareness too. A balanced instinctual awareness provides intuitions of a spiritual nature. Friends and peers cannot provide that nature in fact friends and peers provide the opposite nature.
 
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KitchenFly

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KitchenFly

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Messages
890
Personality Cafe


sx/sp 9w1

This typewingstack embodies the passion of sloth very well. They desire personal development and enlightenment. However, their sloth is always one step ahead of them. They know what they gotta do, but can't summon the motivation to do it. They get more in touch with their own willpower later on in life. They do very well in fields that involve listening and connection so long as they can get their judgmental 1 wing under control. They have less drive for comfort and more drive for intense experiences. These 9s can sit around and have long conversations with people they hardly know in the strangest places and lose themselves in ripples only the 9 is aware of. Their fractured identities can also manifest in their living environment....i.e. some parts could be on the warm and bright side while other parts are plain and unattended to. More than other 9w1s, this 9w1 can virtually run on a fast and scattered autopilot for long periods of time with virtually no productive activity. Depression and self-destruction is not uncommon. They are most attuned to the sense that underneath all the things they know they have to do and attain, there is an essential nothingness at the core of existence, even of their own 'identity', and this only further locks them into their narcolepsy. Afterall, becoming awake would bring them to terms with this nothingness and that's not something they want to confront. They don't usually have a social network to fall back on. They idealize connections to such an extent that finding a friend is like searching for a needle in a haystack.... They can wind up feeling completely numb, lost, lonely, and longing for a blissful sense of completion that can only come from a relationship. Perhaps this is why no 9w1 is more pushy and assertive when it comes to merging. When they do, it's as if they are totally blind to any boundary between themselves and the other. As they get older, they can grow more guarded and less excited/open to the flow of experience.

I get what you have written but I am thinking you must have interviewed some chronically-unhealth sx/sp 9w1 to chouse to describe the sx/sp 9w1 as you have in the above statement.

This typewingstack embodies the passion of sloth very well.

This is true but the reality is when it is time to get up and get to work as an sx/sp 9w1 I have no problem getting the job done. I simply draw upon the other energies as needed.

They desire personal development and enlightenment. However, their sloth is always one step ahead of them. They know what they gotta do, but can't summon the motivation to do it.

This is not true for me I find if I want to know something I am determined to discover it to find the truth and I am relentless I will generally not stop until I have found the best insight possible. If it is practical I will not waste my time I know that is realistic and what is not realistic. An example is I want to know the structure of mind and understand human personality, so I invested over a decade, and I know more than virtually all licenced phycologists.

They get more in touch with their own willpower later on in life.

I agree with this statement. But I think I had will power worked out by the time I was ten years old. But I will admit if I was not interested in doing something I simply would not do it unless I changed my mind.

They do very well in fields that involve listening and connection so long as they can get their judgmental 1 wing under control.

Yes, this is true. And also, the type eight energy within the 9w1 can get in the way I find I can be very impatient and angry towards those who are impractical within their abilities. I have had to learn to be magnanimous towards others and understand why they are lacking ability.

These 9s can sit around and have long conversations with people they hardly know in the strangest places and lose themselves in ripples only the 9 is aware of.

Maybe for some people who are underdeveloped this is so, but I have found this not to be so for me. By halfway through grade one I was away from my parent and home life and boarding with a family. Grade two and three I lived in an orphanage. I placed a Pedi file priest into Como somatic void one day when he tried to sexual violate me at the age of six so I don't think your assessment of the sx/sp 9w1 being driven by nothingness and vague cognitive receptivity toward other is correct. Grade four and five I boarded in a privet boarding school. From grade one to grade five I was masted of my own independence and got on with all people. Yes, I was nine-ish but, I was always abbe to understand and engage with all types of people. I lived closely with between 20-70 people so getting on and relating with people was easy from day one.

Perhaps for those in small families your depiction is true but for me life got busy very quickly.

Their fractured identities can also manifest in their living environment....i.e. some parts could be on the warm and bright side while other parts are plain and unattended to. More than other 9w1s, this 9w1 can virtually run on a fast and scattered autopilot for long periods of time with virtually no productive activity.

This is true when they feel fractured but that has to be a chronic state. I can relate to that, but it would be only for short amounts of time. You depict it as an ongoing norm as if they are permanently defective. I think that is sloppy work on your behalf. If you are talking about sx/sp 9w1 who are way out of orbit, then you should state there condition as in receiving psychiatric care. You must be doing a lazy job while interviewing these sx/sp 9w1 people.

Depression and self-destruction is not uncommon.

yes, this is correct.

They are most attuned to the sense that underneath all the things they know they have to do and attain, there is an essential nothingness at the core of existence, even of their own 'identity', and this only further locks them into their narcolepsy.

This would be true for chronically unhealth sx/sp 9w1.

Afterall, becoming awake would bring them to terms with this nothingness and that's not something they want to confront.

Yes, and no. The nothingness is the presence of the authentic self-un-presence ed. I think you could work on placing some thoughtful content to enlarge the context of your statement. Remember there is always a positive negative and neutral in play and you forgot the neutral in play. The neutral is the overcompensation. The egoic mind is trying to unsuccessfully take the place of the Neutral. When the egoic mind is withdrawn and takes its rightful mechanical place, the authentic self-reveals itself asself and works by equally dealing with the negative and positive without being driven via biases. That the power of the Neutral in the trinity of positive negative and neutral. In fact, its larger it's a three into three thing taking place.

They don't usually have a social network to fall back on.

Yes sx/sp can have a small network of friends I always had two or three best friends when I was not in boarding school and to this day, I only like to have six to ten people I would call authentic friends. But my friends are people I can communicate to and with about almost anything. And they all are friends for life even if I have not seen them for five years it is as if we shear time with each other yesterday. I think my friend ships with my small network of friends is more real than may people's friendship groups or at least no less real than those who are well geared at celebrating social friend ships. There is a so/sx and a so/sp with me that likes to express itself. and also, a sp/so and sp/sx and I have even lent myself to expressing my inner sx/so. Not all people are phycological retarded as you may think.


They idealize connections to such an extent that finding a friend is like searching for a needle in a haystack.... well, if that is so that is so that is truly sad. And I would think that they have lost contact with knowing there inner nine energies and six instinctual variants.

They can wind up feeling completely numb, lost, lonely, and longing for a blissful sense of completion that can only come from a relationship.

that is sad.

Perhaps this is why no 9w1 is more pushy and assertive when it comes to merging.

Perhaps but I think not that's like saying something like, that's why fives are such ravines book readers because they don't trust other people's recitations of truths.

When they do, it's as if they are totally blind to any boundary between themselves and the other. As they get older, they can grow more guarded and less excited/open to the flow of experience.

Well once again that is sad for those people to have that kind of self in posed neurotic lock placed upon themselves by themselves.



Having said all that, I suspect copy right is a limitation for you in drafting your typology descriptions. If you could speak the full truth you would take about truths other authors have sheared or written. The system we as human beings have created has its problems and copy right is a real problem if an individual is starting the race when other have completed their race. meaning you can't say that in your book or writing that's plagiarism. Truth is truth and we all should be able to draft accurate full typologies. That is why I do not write typologies. I could do it well, but I would draw upon all writer who have recorded the truth.

And the other problem is making something concise and simple weakens typologies. The mind is complex and drafting typologies involves levels of health and complexity factors. there are twelve type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and nines.

So, I apologise if I have been blunt or rude are whatever I may have been in response. If it is not up to my inner standard I am not going to agree if it is lacking.

Your typologies focus too much on the negative and could define and illuminate the type by utilising the average and health that is unique about the type. No all people are lost nut jobs who smoke two packets of cigarettes and drink a bottle or two of hard liquor a day.

Cheers and thank you for communicating with me.
 
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