Virtual ghost
Complex paradigm
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,831
Since people have shown interest I guess I can make a thread about this. Because this problem has manifested itself in a number of threads where I posted and it is probably too big for any of them.
Ever since I started to post about enneagram I found myself in the situations that the Enneagram doesn't fully grasp what I am seeing in reality. Which I see in the fact that logic of Enneagram is written by the standards of the English speaking countries, while I am from Eastern Europe. Even if world is much wider area than these two historical circles I can only really talk about my part of the world. However the basic logic behind each type is relatively the same but manifestation and desires can be radically different.
The most obvious are perhaps 8s that want to avoid being controlled. However in the world where we are all much more glued together through taxation, universal healthcare, public safety and in the most radical cases private property is even abolished as a legal concept it is questionable what really happens here ? Since this means that the 8 lives in it's worst fear 24/7, what means it will probably play along if the ride is okish, or it will run away if possible. Neither are stereotypically 8ish strategies. Also there is an option in my country that allows you to make a deal/contract with the government that it pays your healthcare insurance completely for totally free as long as you are collage student. So that you have easier time and focus more on actually studying, therefore it is interesting what happens here since the odds are that 8 would not be against such dependence, since this is really good deal/option. So the reactivity might happen if you would call this programe into question with desire to cancel the programe in order to make people individualistic. Or, you can turn all of this around and say "Are there really any 8s in this system ?"
The large differences can also be spotted in Enneagram 1. Basic idea about perfection can stand but I don't think I know a single person that fully fits the profile of this type. Since I don't know anyone who is so moralistic for the sake of morals. First reason for that is that the social conventions as well as laws are more flexible, while another is that the state seriously bashed the religion a few decades ago and religion never ideologically recovered from that. It lost the rigidity and authority since it had to beg for mercy constantly so that the state does wipe them of the map completely. Actually having a Christmas tree in Christmas time was punishable with a few year in prison, while many priests were killed and temples of all religions were demolished by good margin. However the irony is that people in charge of all that were probably 1s by good margin, which defined the religion as something bad that should be removed.
Since there is less emphasis on earning money or owning stuff e3 can also take major hit in profile. They can join 1s in their political crusade, be perfect citizen by standards that are currently in force or they can go for popularity hoarding through culture, art, sports … whatever.
Because everything is more merged the 5 may not fully fit the profile as well. Since system has so much more social programs and therefore you should pay more attention to the world around you. It is even possible to get money for starting a business, repairing your roof or money that helps you with mortgage. Plus since the government is providing education and it is likely to give you decently paid intellectual job as well as money for the projects. In a way the differences behind all head types are lowered in this setting and differences can be harder to tell.
While 9s, 4s and 2s remain relatively the same, but with somewhat stronger institutional focus.
Of course individually there are exceptions but this would be the wide generalization. Desires of the types remained the same however how the whole thing manifests did change to some degree. What actually opens the question: what exactly is type? What is it's core and what is it shell/culture ? While basically all enneagram literature/lore thinks in a way that the people involved are middle class America or at least 1st worlders.
Ever since I started to post about enneagram I found myself in the situations that the Enneagram doesn't fully grasp what I am seeing in reality. Which I see in the fact that logic of Enneagram is written by the standards of the English speaking countries, while I am from Eastern Europe. Even if world is much wider area than these two historical circles I can only really talk about my part of the world. However the basic logic behind each type is relatively the same but manifestation and desires can be radically different.
The most obvious are perhaps 8s that want to avoid being controlled. However in the world where we are all much more glued together through taxation, universal healthcare, public safety and in the most radical cases private property is even abolished as a legal concept it is questionable what really happens here ? Since this means that the 8 lives in it's worst fear 24/7, what means it will probably play along if the ride is okish, or it will run away if possible. Neither are stereotypically 8ish strategies. Also there is an option in my country that allows you to make a deal/contract with the government that it pays your healthcare insurance completely for totally free as long as you are collage student. So that you have easier time and focus more on actually studying, therefore it is interesting what happens here since the odds are that 8 would not be against such dependence, since this is really good deal/option. So the reactivity might happen if you would call this programe into question with desire to cancel the programe in order to make people individualistic. Or, you can turn all of this around and say "Are there really any 8s in this system ?"
The large differences can also be spotted in Enneagram 1. Basic idea about perfection can stand but I don't think I know a single person that fully fits the profile of this type. Since I don't know anyone who is so moralistic for the sake of morals. First reason for that is that the social conventions as well as laws are more flexible, while another is that the state seriously bashed the religion a few decades ago and religion never ideologically recovered from that. It lost the rigidity and authority since it had to beg for mercy constantly so that the state does wipe them of the map completely. Actually having a Christmas tree in Christmas time was punishable with a few year in prison, while many priests were killed and temples of all religions were demolished by good margin. However the irony is that people in charge of all that were probably 1s by good margin, which defined the religion as something bad that should be removed.
Since there is less emphasis on earning money or owning stuff e3 can also take major hit in profile. They can join 1s in their political crusade, be perfect citizen by standards that are currently in force or they can go for popularity hoarding through culture, art, sports … whatever.
Because everything is more merged the 5 may not fully fit the profile as well. Since system has so much more social programs and therefore you should pay more attention to the world around you. It is even possible to get money for starting a business, repairing your roof or money that helps you with mortgage. Plus since the government is providing education and it is likely to give you decently paid intellectual job as well as money for the projects. In a way the differences behind all head types are lowered in this setting and differences can be harder to tell.
While 9s, 4s and 2s remain relatively the same, but with somewhat stronger institutional focus.
Of course individually there are exceptions but this would be the wide generalization. Desires of the types remained the same however how the whole thing manifests did change to some degree. What actually opens the question: what exactly is type? What is it's core and what is it shell/culture ? While basically all enneagram literature/lore thinks in a way that the people involved are middle class America or at least 1st worlders.