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[Traditional Enneagram] Reactivity in the Reactive Triad

Kanra Jest

Av'ent'Gar'de ~
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
2,388
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Less a 'belief' and more that we have no conclusive evidence, so this much is speculation. As far as Enneagram goes, there are even writings about Enneagram childhoods influences or conditions that support the growth of someone into that certain, specific enneatype- but people who do not possess those childhoods still grow into their enneatype regardless. My problem with Enneagram possibly being molded to that extent by the external is that it insinuates that it is possible to 'raise' someone 'into' a certain enneagram type. Nothing wrong with that, except there are child-parent enneagram incompatibility/clashes almost as much as MBTI. As a result, I think there is something more innate than that. The changes in presentation is accounted for by the levels of health and points of connection in enneagram so far, and I have not seen evidence otherwise, unless the person was mistyped to begin with. And typing people accurately is another entire can of worms.

Other than that, more or less the things @Coriolis also said.

I see your point there. Molding someone into a certain type is unlikely to happen. But subtle influences might remain. I have J tendencies, and some level of Te, probably from being raised by an ESTJ. But nowhere near like him. Ne information intake and analytical Ti internal structuring and organizing is still my main thing.

If someone has a disorder can they even be typed? I kinda wonder that, as that has been my thing often... my 'disorders' make it difficult to know what I am, exactly. But that might be partially the 'stereotypes' to blame. Like I feel pressured to 'fit it' when I don't. I imagine it would be a struggle for others who have disorders, too. Because it effects our mental framework.. Maybe we'd still have a type, but a warped form of it.
 

Earl Grey

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
583
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I see your point there. Molding someone into a certain type is unlikely to happen. But subtle influences might remain. I have J tendencies, and some level of Te, probably from being raised by an ESTJ. But nowhere near like him. Ne information intake and analytical Ti internal structuring and organizing is still my main thing.

Cognitive function, motivations, and learned traits are different things. Ps can learn to be structured, Fs can learn to be more detached, etc. It is more to the preference instead of the actual skill level. The older and more mature one is, the more blended it can be- for example, a T who learns and employs some degree of empathy because it works for them- typology aside, it's like a salesman learning how to become more charismatic and empathetic to reel in more sales (or whatever their goal is). The why someone is a certain way also matters. It just means that they are a T (still are a T!) with F skills.


If someone has a disorder can they even be typed? I kinda wonder that, as that has been my thing often... my 'disorders' make it difficult to know what I am, exactly. But that might be partially the 'stereotypes' to blame. Like I feel pressured to 'fit it' when I don't. I imagine it would be a struggle for others who have disorders, too. Because it effects our mental framework.. Maybe we'd still have a type, but a warped form of it.

More or less the same thing Coriolis said earlier. As with anything, removing the external circumstances and help get at the person's nature and natural flow, but with things like Personality Disorders or certain other more 'permanent', long-lasting ones, Autism, Borderline Personality Disorder, brain damage, etc, I don't think typology has accounted for that. We don't even have a reliable way of typing healthy people, let alone going that far.
 

Earl Grey

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
583
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Actually, anyone who has reactive influence in their tritype- I am so loathe to bring up the anger card, but that's what comes to me most easily and is what comes to mind when I think of reactivity (because I do possess that form of reactivity)-

Even before enneagram, I tended to tell my friends (and my closer friends now) that the more I care about something (anything, an event, a person, etc) the more explosive (in frequency and intensity) I can get about it, so they help me deal with the problem (NOT console me- I get angrier) or just leave me to blow out all my steam till I'm done and come back all nice and calm. On a more logical, rational level, I know that anger is not a necessary component to get things done, but it's how I process and express things regardless, so it is something I pay attention to and deal with (though it does not change that I am reactive to begin with).

I wonder if any other reactives share that same specific sentiment? Any type, 4, 6, 8?
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,235
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Actually, anyone who has reactive influence in their tritype- I am so loathe to bring up the anger card, but that's what comes to me most easily and is what comes to mind when I think of reactivity (because I do possess that form of reactivity)-

Even before enneagram, I tended to tell my friends (and my closer friends now) that the more I care about something (anything, an event, a person, etc) the more explosive (in frequency and intensity) I can get about it, so they help me deal with the problem (NOT console me- I get angrier) or just leave me to blow out all my steam till I'm done and come back all nice and calm. On a more logical, rational level, I know that anger is not a necessary component to get things done, but it's how I process and express things regardless, so it is something I pay attention to and deal with (though it does not change that I am reactive to begin with).

I wonder if any other reactives share that same specific sentiment? Any type, 4, 6, 8?

Yeah, the idea that since anger isn't necessary, you don't need to feel it, and it's better and easier to do whatever needs done without it may be great in theory (if it even is there... I think it could be argued that anger can be healthy, very healthy...) But frankly, I don't feel I have control over feeling it, or many other emotions. I can try, and maybe I'll succeed somewhat by looking at whether it makes sense to get angry, whether I know all the facts, whether I'm convoluting things in my head, etc. But at a certain point, it's there, and it has to be dealt with in some way, and just pushing it down and away so it can explode in some way is not healthy. Particularly if I've had a fight with someone close to me, I'm not going to be able to fully calm down until it's been sorted out and we're no longer angry at each other. I need the resolution and validation in order to let it go.
 

The Cat

Just a Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
23,555
I apologize if this is off topic but if im understanding the gist....

Like for me it comes down to like accepting a thing or not accepting it. So much of what has really made me react with frustration or anger is something i know i cant control and yet i like really want to. Because like I need to know how to "deal" with whatever is going on. Sometimes there is no deal. And accepting that is so difficult. So I just like react. -_- Sometimes I bring great shame upon my dojo...
 

Kanra Jest

Av'ent'Gar'de ~
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
2,388
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Cognitive function, motivations, and learned traits are different things. Ps can learn to be structured, Fs can learn to be more detached, etc. It is more to the preference instead of the actual skill level. The older and more mature one is, the more blended it can be- for example, a T who learns and employs some degree of empathy because it works for them- typology aside, it's like a salesman learning how to become more charismatic and empathetic to reel in more sales (or whatever their goal is). The why someone is a certain way also matters. It just means that they are a T (still are a T!) with F skills.




More or less the same thing Coriolis said earlier. As with anything, removing the external circumstances and help get at the person's nature and natural flow, but with things like Personality Disorders or certain other more 'permanent', long-lasting ones, Autism, Borderline Personality Disorder, brain damage, etc, I don't think typology has accounted for that. We don't even have a reliable way of typing healthy people, let alone going that far.

Ahh. Sounds like adaptation. Really it's also a bit hard to type when one goes into a "mental split" I imagine. Acting different.

Nice. You just listed more or less what I possess. Such being, I've wondered if I was really type-able. But this is the closest I can get amidst the bouts of emotionlessness and emotional dis-regulation, and warpedness. I have a friend who has BPD and he seems pretty ENFJ though and even got it and read it saying it was just like him. ;) *shrugs*

I apologize if this is off topic but if im understanding the gist....

Like for me it comes down to like accepting a thing or not accepting it. So much of what has really made me react with frustration or anger is something i know i cant control and yet i like really want to. Because like I need to know how to "deal" with whatever is going on. Sometimes there is no deal. And accepting that is so difficult. So I just like react. -_- Sometimes I bring great shame upon my dojo...

I actually get you here. Getting really frustrated when you something out of your control you want to control goes predictably wrong. Really annoying. Yes, wanna "fix it" or "how I envision it" in my case, but can't. Gets pretty frustrating given it's usually when there's such brilliant ideas. I do have problems with anger in this area too, but don't show it if I'm around anyone, because of the shame of the feeling and inability.

Y'know. A Dojo is a brilliant idea to burn out frustration, hmm. :ninja: unless I, uh... y'know. Don't get the results I want. :duel:
 

Saturnal Snowqueen

Solastalgia 𓍊𓋼𓍊𓋼𓍊
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
6,125
MBTI Type
FELV
Enneagram
974
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Double reactive here. It was hard to me to type as 946 at first even the motivations fit beautifully because I don't relate to the stereotypical "reactiveness"-as in on the outside I'm pretty laid back and I don't remember the last time I blew up at anyone. I'm a core 9 though, and technically I do relate to a lot of the reactive feelings, but I hold them back a lot because I don't want to start drama. When I feel misunderstood, my blood boils and my hairs stand on end. My 9 finds this a silly reaction and doesn't vocalize it much, but my 4 just feels invalidated, like no one will know the true me. My 6, I'm a pretty anxious person in general, but I've noticed that when something threatens my security I pipe up more, hoping that someone will help me and understand what I'm going through. I need a lot of reassurance because I get plagued with doubt over and over again. Security for me, it can be more literal like worrying about getting hurt, but it can also be something like losing a person because they are my security. I know reactive types aren't very trusting either, and I'm not. I've been called trusting actually, probably because I do see the best in people at heart. But I keep this guard up because I worry about being vulnerable, taken advantage of and getting hurt.
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,883
Reactive types want you to react to them.
4s want you to react to their emotions.
6s want you to react to their anxieties.
8s want you to react to their strength.

For these three types, it is a balancing act of trust and distrust, independence and support. The distribution of these needs works on a sliding scale with these types:
4s want a rescuer, someone who will understand and see them through their emotions.
6s want someone to rely on but also want to be the strong one.
8s want self-reliance and to need others as little as possible.
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,235
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Despite the fact that now I'm pretty sure I'm a 925, with no reactive types in my tritype, I still relate to 4's reactivity. It may be my sx/sp. It may just be that it's a normal thing, but I don't have it with the same intensity as a 4 would. It may be 9 anger issues. It may be that I grew up in a household with a very reactive father (6 or 8, not 4.) It could be rejection triad issues. Just thought I ought to clarify since I started the thread.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I never really posted about this and it's super late now, but I see some comments about 4.

I do not lead with 4, but typically my tritype is either 549 or 594 (I tend to flip them around every so often depending on my current life style and right now I typically feel a lot more 'chill' and detachment than internal passion regarding my life). I don't feel like taking another hour to edit this stuff, but here's where I was earlier in my life if it's helpful.

 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Reactive types want you to react to them.
4s want you to react to their emotions.
6s want you to react to their anxieties.
8s want you to react to their strength.

For these three types, it is a balancing act of trust and distrust, independence and support. The distribution of these needs works on a sliding scale with these types:
4s want a rescuer, someone who will understand and see them through their emotions.
6s want someone to rely on but also want to be the strong one.
8s want self-reliance and to need others as little as possible.

I like that first statement. It's a great summary, and it's interesting because I don't think I relate at all to actually wanting people to react to me. I think I've spent too much of my life just being somewhat ok being in the background and not really expecting anyone to mind meld with me, ha. I think I'm too conditioned at this point to being on my own. Strangely, I think I relate most to the 8 description due to self reliance, but I've always thought 8 was one of the farthest from how I actually am.

(Edit: Fwiw I'm not actually convinced of the utility of tritype so don't put any weight on it, really)
(Edit 2 (ha!) I see I posted earlier in the thread... I don't think what I just posted negates my first, I think it's two different things)
 
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