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  1. #61
    ∂ιѕﻭяα¢є∂ ¢σѕмσηαυт Luminous's Avatar
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  2. #62
    Insane Visionary Kanra13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixaerus View Post
    Less a 'belief' and more that we have no conclusive evidence, so this much is speculation. As far as Enneagram goes, there are even writings about Enneagram childhoods influences or conditions that support the growth of someone into that certain, specific enneatype- but people who do not possess those childhoods still grow into their enneatype regardless. My problem with Enneagram possibly being molded to that extent by the external is that it insinuates that it is possible to 'raise' someone 'into' a certain enneagram type. Nothing wrong with that, except there are child-parent enneagram incompatibility/clashes almost as much as MBTI. As a result, I think there is something more innate than that. The changes in presentation is accounted for by the levels of health and points of connection in enneagram so far, and I have not seen evidence otherwise, unless the person was mistyped to begin with. And typing people accurately is another entire can of worms.

    Other than that, more or less the things @Coriolis also said.
    I see your point there. Molding someone into a certain type is unlikely to happen. But subtle influences might remain. I have J tendencies, and some level of Te, probably from being raised by an ESTJ. But nowhere near like him. Ne information intake and analytical Ti internal structuring and organizing is still my main thing.

    If someone has a disorder can they even be typed? I kinda wonder that, as that has been my thing often... my 'disorders' make it difficult to know what I am, exactly. But that might be partially the 'stereotypes' to blame. Like I feel pressured to 'fit it' when I don't. I imagine it would be a struggle for others who have disorders, too. Because it effects our mental framework.. Maybe we'd still have a type, but a warped form of it.
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  3. #63
    HOLY blessblessblessbless   PRIDE MONTH™ Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanra13 View Post
    I see your point there. Molding someone into a certain type is unlikely to happen. But subtle influences might remain. I have J tendencies, and some level of Te, probably from being raised by an ESTJ. But nowhere near like him. Ne information intake and analytical Ti internal structuring and organizing is still my main thing.
    Cognitive function, motivations, and learned traits are different things. Ps can learn to be structured, Fs can learn to be more detached, etc. It is more to the preference instead of the actual skill level. The older and more mature one is, the more blended it can be- for example, a T who learns and employs some degree of empathy because it works for them- typology aside, it's like a salesman learning how to become more charismatic and empathetic to reel in more sales (or whatever their goal is). The why someone is a certain way also matters. It just means that they are a T (still are a T!) with F skills.


    If someone has a disorder can they even be typed? I kinda wonder that, as that has been my thing often... my 'disorders' make it difficult to know what I am, exactly. But that might be partially the 'stereotypes' to blame. Like I feel pressured to 'fit it' when I don't. I imagine it would be a struggle for others who have disorders, too. Because it effects our mental framework.. Maybe we'd still have a type, but a warped form of it.
    More or less the same thing Coriolis said earlier. As with anything, removing the external circumstances and help get at the person's nature and natural flow, but with things like Personality Disorders or certain other more 'permanent', long-lasting ones, Autism, Borderline Personality Disorder, brain damage, etc, I don't think typology has accounted for that. We don't even have a reliable way of typing healthy people, let alone going that far.
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  4. #64
    HOLY blessblessblessbless   PRIDE MONTH™ Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Actually, anyone who has reactive influence in their tritype- I am so loathe to bring up the anger card, but that's what comes to me most easily and is what comes to mind when I think of reactivity (because I do possess that form of reactivity)-

    Even before enneagram, I tended to tell my friends (and my closer friends now) that the more I care about something (anything, an event, a person, etc) the more explosive (in frequency and intensity) I can get about it, so they help me deal with the problem (NOT console me- I get angrier) or just leave me to blow out all my steam till I'm done and come back all nice and calm. On a more logical, rational level, I know that anger is not a necessary component to get things done, but it's how I process and express things regardless, so it is something I pay attention to and deal with (though it does not change that I am reactive to begin with).

    I wonder if any other reactives share that same specific sentiment? Any type, 4, 6, 8?
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  5. #65
    ∂ιѕﻭяα¢є∂ ¢σѕмσηαυт Luminous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixaerus View Post
    Actually, anyone who has reactive influence in their tritype- I am so loathe to bring up the anger card, but that's what comes to me most easily and is what comes to mind when I think of reactivity (because I do possess that form of reactivity)-

    Even before enneagram, I tended to tell my friends (and my closer friends now) that the more I care about something (anything, an event, a person, etc) the more explosive (in frequency and intensity) I can get about it, so they help me deal with the problem (NOT console me- I get angrier) or just leave me to blow out all my steam till I'm done and come back all nice and calm. On a more logical, rational level, I know that anger is not a necessary component to get things done, but it's how I process and express things regardless, so it is something I pay attention to and deal with (though it does not change that I am reactive to begin with).

    I wonder if any other reactives share that same specific sentiment? Any type, 4, 6, 8?
    Yeah, the idea that since anger isn't necessary, you don't need to feel it, and it's better and easier to do whatever needs done without it may be great in theory (if it even is there... I think it could be argued that anger can be healthy, very healthy...) But frankly, I don't feel I have control over feeling it, or many other emotions. I can try, and maybe I'll succeed somewhat by looking at whether it makes sense to get angry, whether I know all the facts, whether I'm convoluting things in my head, etc. But at a certain point, it's there, and it has to be dealt with in some way, and just pushing it down and away so it can explode in some way is not healthy. Particularly if I've had a fight with someone close to me, I'm not going to be able to fully calm down until it's been sorted out and we're no longer angry at each other. I need the resolution and validation in order to let it go.
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  6. #66
    A Bittersweet Symphony... Eryn Silverfrond's Avatar
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    I apologize if this is off topic but if im understanding the gist....

    Like for me it comes down to like accepting a thing or not accepting it. So much of what has really made me react with frustration or anger is something i know i cant control and yet i like really want to. Because like I need to know how to "deal" with whatever is going on. Sometimes there is no deal. And accepting that is so difficult. So I just like react. -_- Sometimes I bring great shame upon my dojo...
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  7. #67
    Insane Visionary Kanra13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Grey View Post
    Cognitive function, motivations, and learned traits are different things. Ps can learn to be structured, Fs can learn to be more detached, etc. It is more to the preference instead of the actual skill level. The older and more mature one is, the more blended it can be- for example, a T who learns and employs some degree of empathy because it works for them- typology aside, it's like a salesman learning how to become more charismatic and empathetic to reel in more sales (or whatever their goal is). The why someone is a certain way also matters. It just means that they are a T (still are a T!) with F skills.




    More or less the same thing Coriolis said earlier. As with anything, removing the external circumstances and help get at the person's nature and natural flow, but with things like Personality Disorders or certain other more 'permanent', long-lasting ones, Autism, Borderline Personality Disorder, brain damage, etc, I don't think typology has accounted for that. We don't even have a reliable way of typing healthy people, let alone going that far.
    Ahh. Sounds like adaptation. Really it's also a bit hard to type when one goes into a "mental split" I imagine. Acting different.

    Nice. You just listed more or less what I possess. Such being, I've wondered if I was really type-able. But this is the closest I can get amidst the bouts of emotionlessness and emotional dis-regulation, and warpedness. I have a friend who has BPD and he seems pretty ENFJ though and even got it and read it saying it was just like him. *shrugs*

    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn Silverfrond View Post
    I apologize if this is off topic but if im understanding the gist....

    Like for me it comes down to like accepting a thing or not accepting it. So much of what has really made me react with frustration or anger is something i know i cant control and yet i like really want to. Because like I need to know how to "deal" with whatever is going on. Sometimes there is no deal. And accepting that is so difficult. So I just like react. -_- Sometimes I bring great shame upon my dojo...
    I actually get you here. Getting really frustrated when you something out of your control you want to control goes predictably wrong. Really annoying. Yes, wanna "fix it" or "how I envision it" in my case, but can't. Gets pretty frustrating given it's usually when there's such brilliant ideas. I do have problems with anger in this area too, but don't show it if I'm around anyone, because of the shame of the feeling and inability.

    Y'know. A Dojo is a brilliant idea to burn out frustration, hmm. unless I, uh... y'know. Don't get the results I want.
    "A life that lives without doing anything is the same as a slow death." - Lelouch Vi Britannia

    Alignment: True Neutral/Chaotic Neutral (Rational Neutral - Rebel Neutral)
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    9w8, 5w4, 3w4 sx/so

    In theory: the wings create a strong 4ish imprint

    How fascinating the mind is.

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