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  1. #11
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robobot14 View Post
    I'm a bit curious about something. I've been told that enneagram is about motivation more than traits. So what if your traits go against your type, but not your motivations? On here I got typed as 7, although some people said 9. But I don't really relate to being spotaneous, very extroverted, optimistic, and bubbly. It could easily be a stereoptype, but still. I definitely can be goofy and playful, but I'm also quiet, introspective, compromising and mellow like a 9. I just like variety, learning lots, experience and exploring the unique like a 7. I care a lot about peace too though.

    Any insights I guess?
    I think a person has a little of each enneagram type in them as far as traits but key motivation is more of a factor. You think you are a 7.

    Key Motivations: Want to maintain their freedom and happiness, to avoid missing out on worthwhile experiences, to keep themselves excited and occupied, to avoid and discharge pain.
    Does this description resonate with you?

    Basic Fear: Of being deprived and in pain
    Basic Desire: To be satisfied and content—to have their needs fulfilled
    Do these two items sound very true of you?

    I wouldn't get so hung up on the rest of the 7 description. You also joined this forum a month ago - there is no way for people here to know you that well so I wouldn't give much attention to what others here think you are. Enneagram to me is much more honest than MBTI but MBTI and enneagram can paint a more true picture to the individual. And it takes time so don't rush into typing yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by punkermit View Post
    Good question and I have been pondering the same.

    For example,

    8, are they motivated by fear of being controlled or do they have an inate need to control?
    3, are they motivated by fear of being worthless or do they have an inate need to succeed?
    I fear being controlled or harmed by others or my environment. This is my Basic Fear.

    I have a need to control my environment/destiny and protect myself. This is my Basic Desire.

    I know my Integration direction is to take on more healthy traits of 2's. I know my Disintegration direction is to take on more unhealthy traits of 5's.

    So everyone has 3 types going on. That can be confusing but recognizing growth and stress points is really important for knowing yourself.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  2. #12
    Can't be satisfied. Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Its somewhat how I experience things so at most take it as one example. I don't mean to exaggerate. If I am backed into a situation and facing a plausible threat that must be dealt with, I will deal with it . When it comes to a conflict, I am a hammer with a nail .My naturical inclination is To confront it even when that is not the best course of action though I am not stupid. If I will lose or it is the wrong time, I will back off at least for the time being . If winning will be losing in my prudent moments, I will also back off . I get better at as I get older but the natural tendency always exists. There is always the issue of I make mistakes . Again, I am a hammer with a nail .This all might get taken wrong - like I am some kind of hothead . Nothing would be further from the truth . I have a very high toleration for expressions of emotion and conflict . I enjoy it in fact and can be amused by it . When it gets caustic,petty, drama without reason, unproductive, spiteful, take any number of the wrong words . When conflict is desired by parties towards resolutuon, or simply expressive of feelings, I am all good . When it is toxic, intended to destroy or harm things. intentionally designed to really hurt people and especially those I am close to, I don't react well. Rhetoric I respond poorly to because I view it as lies/false . It's also bad if I am personally fucked over and it's about something that is important to me .

    Some of this is my attempt to try and explain to people who I am . It is neither good or bad OR JUST BOTH . It just is what is .People need to live with that, choose how to deal with me or don't . I make no allusions to being perfect .

    But @Peter Deadpan you don't seem like this 6 type to me . Not intense or serious enough. .Not enough anger for a 6sx . Too many possibilities and too much humor which I appreciate and need more of . I would also go with sx for sure . Just a different number . Not 1,2, 3 6, 8, 9 . I could possibly see 4,5 or 7 basically . INFP bordering on ENFP . You are not the everyday INFP somehow - less moralistic and more ENFPish You have strongr Ne than Fi but seem introverted . .Like you seem ENFP totally but your are ain introvrt . So ENFP that is an introvert if possible . .I haven't done this in a while . Is fun .
    Thanks for the info and the spontaneous analysis of my own type. I do agree with what you said about me, although the only thing I would add is that I have a sort of pseudo-7 thing going on. I say pseudo because it doesn't translate into real life beyond humor or self-indulgent behavior as a way of maintaining more enjoyable feelings (something that several types do, mainly 4, 7, and 9). I also do enjoy planning or focusing on self-improvement sometimes, and unfortunately I rarely stick with things long enough for them to become habit, or even worse - I will form a habit, and then something will happen, and I will sabotage my progress self-indulgently. I think that any high-Ne user will naturally have some 7-ish quality to them because Ne is just such a bouncy on-to-the-next function. I've also noticed that in stressful, depressing times, I will sometimes become more scattered and frustrated when I cannot find something of interest to me, something to dig my feet into. If you think of how I was when I first joined forum, that is what was going on. I was all. over. the. place.

    I've known since I was a small child that something about me was just.... weird and off. I have always been aware of this strange combination of characteristics, and even moreso, a sort of complex and complicated way of processing the world that at times just felt like it had the potential to be fragile in a (for lack of a better and less dramatic word) dark way.

    I can 100% see why people on forum continue to point out just how heady I can be, and for that reason along with others, I have lately been looking at the possibility of having missed something significant in my typing journey.

    Function wise, I tend to think that Ne is what energizes me. I actually get really depressed when I can't interact with people, at least online. I don't think I could even go 2 days without doing so. I absolutely love and need my alone time, and a lot of it, but after awhile, I get kinda cagey and just have to get out of my house, if even only for a trip to Target (holy mom pants, batman). I also think that I am better with Te than Si. I am quite comfortable teaching others or showing them how to do things more efficiently, and a lot of my criticisms of other people revolve around their incompetence or oversights (which could also be 5-ish). I am more indulgent when it comes to Si and don't have many, if any, positive Si habits.

    You know what keeps me up at night? The dumbest shit, like "fuck! I forgot to pay that bill!", or "I have so much to do; call this place and that place, get these prescriptions filled, get my taxes in order, look into school and financial aid stuff, blah blah blah blah etc etc etc." It all revolves around my weakness with Si, and I repeatedly criticize myself for being unable to "get my life in order".

    Also, I do this thing sometimes where I can tell my body needs something, or is sick, but I can't even tell what it is. Example: "I can't tell if I'm hungry or thirsty or getting sick right now". That probably seems ludicrous to Si doms.

    Kurt Cobain was an INFP 5, and there are ENFP 4s. I am certain that I am somewhere in that mix.

    One more afterthought because apparently mental ADHD is a thing this morning: I don't seem to be as confident in my Fi assessments as most INFPs OR 4s. I seem to need more time to think things through, and I have more hesitation opening up about certain things to people (I fight a lot of that in my blog because I've realized the toxicity of keeping everything buried). I've never had a journal, I've never written poetry, and frankly... I'm not even that artistically expressive (I am capable of it but I have never committed to it long-term as a form of self-expression). I find that words are my most natural medium and I prefer to paint pictures with them. So in short, basically I am either a 4 and Fi second, or I'm a head type INFP. My focus now is on weighing which has been more prevalent in my life: feeling defective and longing for the missing piece, or feeling overwhelmed and under prepared. It's a tough call, honestly.
    '“Sometimes I think I have felt everything I'm ever gonna feel.
    And from here on out, I'm not gonna feel anything new.

    Just lesser versions of what I've already felt.

    - look it up yourself


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  3. #13
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Ah, 6 and sp and so are probably reinforcing of each other in a phobic way I am guessing . 6 and Sx is different. When I first read about 6, I was like 'fear???? What fear??'. It took me a while to understand it. Though they can be extremely loyal, patient and kind, 6Sx tends towards counterphobia which is a overreaction towards confronting the fear. Part of that is proactive planning. Part of that is taking proactive actions to reduce risk. Part of that is confronting in the moment or at a later time. It's why it can be dangerous to strike out at a 6sx. If they stike back, It will be with force and premeditation, swift and merciless . I.e. They won't react towards minor things but if you are an asshole and fuck them over or especially someone they care about, be prepared for retribution and it won't necessarily be when you expect it. There is a scene in the Patriot after the evil redcoat kills Mel Gibson's son. That is the most dramatic fictional example I can think of that captures it. It's different than 8 . An 8 will be angry, protective and in your face right away. 6 will take their time and strike back with greater force . It's why movies like Braveheart, Gladiator, the Patriot, John Wick or Peppermint appeal to me on some kind of primal level.
    I relate to the highlighted as well - perhaps just from 6 wing. I always associated that sort of thorough advance planning and premeditated response with SP, though.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #14
    The Bat Man highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I relate to the highlighted as well - perhaps just from 6 wing. I always associated that sort of thorough advance planning and premeditated response with SP, though.
    Yeah I think the INTJ thing plays in there too.

  5. #15
    King Ping Mayflower's Avatar
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    I usually find that motivations yield traits.
    Time You Enjoy Wasting is Not Wasted Time - Marthe Troly-Curtin,

  6. #16
    RooibosKrayfish RadicalDoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    @Peter Deadpan I'm a 6 and am not scanning for lies or ulterior motives. My default is to trust but verify . I do think about the worst case situation at all times though so if things go to shit, I have likely already thought about those scenarios . I am always prepared for disaster . Hell of a way to live I suppose . Hope for best and always assume the worst . Don't know if this common or not in 6s . It has its pros and cons . When bad stuff happens, I'm pretty resilient as a result because it is rarely as bad as I feared . I probably causes me to miss opportunities tho due to risk aversion .
    I wouldn't be surprised if this is how it works for most 6s. Random addition, this is how I experience being a sp 6 too for the most part.


    @robobot14
    To add to this post, probably not unlike most people have, motivations definitely play a bigger role than behavior, especially when certain types resemble each other at a superficial/purely behavioral level. Using myself as an example, behaviorally, I could easily be typed (and have mistyped for a long period of time) as a 9(w1) core because I'm not incredibly assertive, withdrawn, excessively pleasant/agreeable around others, and more moved by others agendas at times than my own. I am also not necessarily reactive in a way that's super obvious to others in the way that the stereotypical 6 and I wouldn't consider myself loyal either. However, if you look into my motivations, I am strongly motivated by my fear, I don't fear being lost or separated from others, and I'm far too willing to throw away my peace of mind to get things done and maintain control. I also have no issue with sloth. This confusion makes sense, as sp 6 strongly resembles 9s as a whole (without the presence of sx at least) behaviorally and description wise if you ignore motivations.

    ANYWAYS the same goes for a lot of types, sp 3s look like 1s (and sometimes 6s), soc blind 2s like 4s, 9s like 4s, ect ect ect. Considering that both are positive outlook types, behavior wise 9 and 7 could resemble each other greatly, especially if the relation between the types was enforced by having both in one's tritype (as OP seems to have). Especially being that sp 7 is the most "chill" 7 in the sense that it isn't blindly running towards stimulation and also is somewhat more stereotypically "introverted" than traditional 7 descriptions, a sp/so 7 could potentially resemble 9. Go for the motivation, not so much the behavior, though the two often aren't really that distant from one another.
    - 6w5 3w4 1w9 - sp/so - INTP -
    “My deplorable mania for analysis exhausts me. I doubt everything, even my doubt.” Gustave Flaubert



  7. #17
    Valse du Souvenirs Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robobot14 View Post
    I'm a bit curious about something. I've been told that enneagram is about motivation more than traits. So what if your traits go against your type, but not your motivations? On here I got typed as 7, although some people said 9. But I don't really relate to being spotaneous, very extroverted, optimistic, and bubbly. It could easily be a stereoptype, but still. I definitely can be goofy and playful, but I'm also quiet, introspective, compromising and mellow like a 9. I just like variety, learning lots, experience and exploring the unique like a 7. I care a lot about peace too though.

    Any insights I guess?

    This:
    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalDoubt View Post
    To add to this post, probably not unlike most people have, motivations definitely play a bigger role than behavior, especially when certain types resemble each other at a superficial/purely behavioral level.
    A good simple example is (though this is MBTI) a situation where you have several people who are punctual. One might be a TJ, knowing that following a structure that has been preplanned to maximize efficiency would be the best thing to do, regardless of their feelings. Another might be an FP, who perhaps enjoys the social company, or comes early because the event/meeting suits their passions, so they can't help but arrive on time or early in their zeal. Another might be an FJ, who find the notion of disappointing people in their social circle disturbing, and want to live up to expectations.

    Of course, each person can have a mix of several, but some *will stand out more than the others, and more stably. Even so, the point is that in this case, judging the individual based on the the outward trait of punctuality could lead to a mistype. There are various motivations and cognitive processes that contribute to behavioural traits, some understandably overlap. It is better to go into the why or the how, rather than surface behaviour. Especially good to remember that no one behaves the same all the time, but their basic outlook remains what shapes their behaviours.




    Quote Originally Posted by punkermit View Post
    Good question and I have been pondering the same.

    For example,

    8, are they motivated by fear of being controlled or do they have an inate need to control?
    3, are they motivated by fear of being worthless or do they have an inate need to succeed?
    As far as the theory goes, it is fear-based. The fear creates coping mechanisms, and enneagram is supposed to help you discover and overcome them. The more one holds onto their coping mechanisms instead of balancing themselves, the unhealthier they are, and the lower on the health levels they are.

    One can argue that both can come hand in hand, however. It is the outlook (shaped by various things, including certain fears / emotions) that results in the outward behaviour of needing to garner love, to control, to react impulsively, etc- using 'Fear' is a shorthand term for all those combined (no one lives in 100% state of the emotion of fear).
    Last edited by Earl Grey; 02-16-2019 at 06:04 PM. Reason: Typoitis strikes again
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  8. #18
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixaerus View Post
    A good simple example is (though this is MBTI) a situation where you have several people who are punctual. One might be a TJ, knowing that following a structure that has been preplanned to maximize efficiency would be the best thing to do, regardless of their feelings. Another might be an FP, who perhaps enjoys the social company, or comes early because the event/meeting suits their passions, so they can't help but arrive on time or early in their zeal. Another might be an FJ, who find the notion of disappointing people in their social circle disturbing, and want to live up to expectations.

    Of course, each person can have a mix of several, but some with stand out more than the others, and more stably. Even so, the point is that in this case, judging the individual based on the the outward trait of punctuality could lead to a mistype. There are various motivations and cognitive processes that contribute to behavioural traits, some understandably overlap. It is better to go into the why or the how, rather than surface behaviour. Especially good to remember that no one behaves the same all the time, but their basic outlook remains what shapes their behaviours.
    This is a good example. I also know plenty of P's who know they are not inherently punctual, and choose to use calendars, phone reminders, etc. to make sure they get to important appointments on time. They look as punctual as a stereotypical J, the difference is that they must take deliberate steps to compensate for something that might not come naturally. As a TJ myself, I can cay punctuality is almost effortless. I have a very good innate sense of timing and sequencing, and don't need lists or reminders to stay on track/time.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  9. #19
    Sober revelations Hummingbird Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robobot14 View Post
    I'm a bit curious about something. I've been told that enneagram is about motivation more than traits. So what if your traits go against your type, but not your motivations? On here I got typed as 7, although some people said 9. But I don't really relate to being spotaneous, very extroverted, optimistic, and bubbly. It could easily be a stereoptype, but still. I definitely can be goofy and playful, but I'm also quiet, introspective, compromising and mellow like a 9. I just like variety, learning lots, experience and exploring the unique like a 7. I care a lot about peace too though.

    Any insights I guess?
    Enneagram is based upon motivations centered around a core desire or fear. Our actions are suggested to align with it, as we are doing them, often subconsciously, to appease this certain desire or avoid this fear. In your case...

    A 7 fears being deprived and suffering,
    therefore 7s motivation behind much of their actions should be some sort of attempt to avoid feeling their pain, or being deprived of something they desire. Of course tritype muddies this up with multiple motivations and such, but you get the idea.

    Instinctual variants can play a huge part in how your type reveals itself. Certainly an Se 7 is well known for their spontaneous nature but we have to account for those introverted 7s that get kicks out of being completely alone and totally obsessing over some theory like typology.... It took me a long time to accept a 7 typing for myself even as I didn't relate to the descriptions usually, but they aren't describing my type of 7 usually.
    These were the lovely bones that had grown around my absence:
    the connections—sometimes tenuous, sometimes made at great cost, but often magnificent—that happened after I was gone.
    And I began to see things in a way that let me hold the world without me in it.
    The events my death brought were merely the bones of a body that would become whole at some unpredictable time in the future.
    The price of what I came to see as this miraculous body had been my life.
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  10. #20
    Startouched Elf Tenebris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is a good example. I also know plenty of P's who know they are not inherently punctual, and choose to use calendars, phone reminders, etc. to make sure they get to important appointments on time. They look as punctual as a stereotypical J, the difference is that they must take deliberate steps to compensate for something that might not come naturally. As a TJ myself, I can cay punctuality is almost effortless. I have a very good innate sense of timing and sequencing, and don't need lists or reminders to stay on track/time.
    I'd fall into that category myself I think. I thought I was a J forever because I am punctual and really good with time management. Turns out it's just crazy good Si usage that emulates the natural TJ behavior.
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