[Type 6] Enneagram Type 6 Profile

[ChocolateMoose123]

I think it's just from acquiring knowledge. Rarely is it so interested in being practical. I think often the amount of practicality is inversely proportional to my interest in it. I guess that make me a 5.

This may help too.
Misidentifying 5 and 6 — The Enneagram Institute

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

This may help too.
Misidentifying 5 and 6 — The Enneagram Institute

I think my thinking is more non-linear, and I also think, given that information, that it's somewhat telling that I didn't go into academia, despite my interest in knowledge, learning, science, etc. On the other hand, I often don't trust my own mind and conclusions, but I haven't always been that way. There's been many periods in my life where I've trusted nothing else. My lack of trust of my own mental processes could just be because I've been operating at lower levels of health until recently (things got disrupted for me in a big way in the last few years). I will say that even now, I allow for the possibility that authorities can be wrong. For instance, I read some notes by my professor the other day, and they didn't make sense. I looked up information on the internet, and it looked like the other way around, the way I thought it should be, was right. I came to the conclusion that the professor had made some typos in the formulas. I don't particularly hold that against him, but I allow for the possibility that anyone can be wrong.

Regarding knowledge from other sources, I often don't fully accept it until I can thoroughly digest it in on my own and explore all the angles. This requires a lot more effort, but I feel really good once I do. I don't like just remembering things by rote, although I'm pretty good at it.

I think overall, it points more towards 5 than 6. Although I could just be biased because I find the description of five a lot more appealing than a 6, no offense intended.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I think my thinking is more non-linear, and I also think, given that information, that it's somewhat telling that I didn't go into academia, despite my interest in knowledge, learning, science, etc. On the other hand, I often don't trust my own mind and conclusions, but I haven't always been that way. There's been many periods in my life where I've trusted nothing else. My lack of trust of my own mental processes could just be because I've been operating at lower levels of health until recently (things got disrupted for me in a big way in the last few years). I will say that even now, I allow for the possibility that authorities can be wrong. For instance, I read some notes by my professor the other day, and they didn't make sense. I looked up information on the internet, and it looked like the other way around, the way I thought it should be, was right. I came to the conclusion that the professor had made some typos in the formulas. I don't particularly hold that against him, but I allow for the possibility that anyone can be wrong.

Regarding knowledge from other sources, I often don't fully accept it until I can thoroughly digest it in on my own and explore all the angles. This requires a lot more effort, but I feel really good once I do. I don't like just remembering things by rote, although I'm pretty good at it.

I think overall, it points more towards 5 than 6. Although I could just be biased because I find the description of five a lot more appealing than a 6, no offense intended.

Haha. None taken. You do have a 6 wing, so there is influence.

I do think 5's are more idiosyncratic where 6's are more methodical, systematic.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Haha. None taken. You do have a 6 wing, so there is influence.

I do think 5's are more idiosyncratic where 6's are more methodical, systematic.

Yeah, I'm just not that methodical or systematic, although at times I'd like to be. Although it sometimes manifests in how I sometimes want all the pieces of something to fit together. I attribute that to Ti, though.

 

[gromit]

I think the guy I am dating is a 6. Actually probably a lot of the guys I've ever been with have been e6s.

I love their skeptical minds, and their devotion.

 

[JocktheMotie]

I love their skeptical minds

This is the first to fade.

/downer5commentoftheday

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

This is the first to fade.

/downer5commentoftheday

Are you a 6? Your avatars always seemed 5ish.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Are you a 6? Your avatars always seemed 5ish.

I am a 5. However, I meant to state that the 6 skepticism gets pretty tiresome within a close relationship.

 

[Cellmold]

Haha. None taken. You do have a 6 wing, so there is influence.

I do think 5's are more idiosyncratic where 6's are more methodical, systematic.

Yeah, I'm just not that methodical or systematic, although at times I'd like to be. Although it sometimes manifests in how I sometimes want all the pieces of something to fit together. I attribute that to Ti, though.

Interestingly I am not very methodical or systematic either, despite being a poster child of a 6 in the constant grip of anxiety. I tend to find I am regularly assessing the authority of myself and others as while the fear of being without allies or friends is present, I am more frightened of going along with a potentially harmful majority and I never assume the authority of another is necessarily deserved. There is too much historical evidence of the damage that this can do for me to ignore it.

To me, authority has to be earned, proven & tested endlessly in the process of living. Otherwise it's stagnant and rewards lazy efforts and entrenched positions.

I can be oppositional, though never too aggressively. In fact the main flaw in my oppositional nature to authority is presentation; I lack style & charisma in those kinds of matters and this seems to undermine any beneficial effect my opposition might have (particularly frustrating when I am proven right). People listen more to the tone & and the flare than they do the point, and I think very few are innocent of doing this to some extent.

Following from this I am, slightly unknowingly until the last 10 years or so, very much obsessed with transformation (though not in the Buffalo Bill or Dolarhyde kind of way).

I guess this is why, despite my anxieties, I still believe in the plasticity of the brain and I'm trying to craft a situation of living where I can engage with information that will help me with using this at my own pace, even if it feels like we exist in a cardboard world where everything just keeps being sped up, faster and faster; some frantic expression of collective insanity.

That's off point though.

But I do forget just how much of a privilege & pleasure it is to just sit and think, without the constant noise of external & internal pressures getting in the way.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

From the enneagram institute link above, about e5/e6 mistypes: "Fives feel that they can only trust their own minds to come to conclusions–they believe that everyone else is likely to be less well-informed. Sixes get frantic trying to find something to trust precisely because they do not trust their own minds to come to meaningful conclusions." <- That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking before I read the page. Except I wouldn't have said others are "less well-informed" so much as others seem to be satisfied with incorrect/inaccurate information. But anyway, I think the need for independence makes e5s shun more interdependence than they should- e6s don't seem to go into anywhere near as much denial about how necessary interdependence is. They may feel a lot of anxiety about it, but they don't seem inclined to focus on how to make the interdependence go away. They seem more preoccupied with making the anxiety itself go away.

Good description, in the op.

 

[Zarathustra]

I am a 5. However, I meant to state that the 6 skepticism gets pretty tiresome within a close relationship.

Could you expand on this?

Like, how does this manifest in close relationships?

Cuz I feel like I hear this all the time, on here especially, but I've never heard a complaint like this from one of my partners or friends

 

[Starry]

From the enneagram institute link above, about e5/e6 mistypes: "Fives feel that they can only trust their own minds to come to conclusions–they believe that everyone else is likely to be less well-informed. Sixes get frantic trying to find something to trust precisely because they do not trust their own minds to come to meaningful conclusions." <- That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking before I read the page. Except I wouldn't have said others are "less well-informed" so much as others seem to be satisfied with incorrect/inaccurate information. But anyway, I think the need for independence makes e5s shun more interdependence than they should- e6s don't seem to go into anywhere near as much denial about how necessary interdependence is. They may feel a lot of anxiety about it, but they don't seem inclined to focus on how to make the interdependence go away. They seem more preoccupied with making the anxiety itself go away.

Good description, in the op.

Really? (I totally had no intention of responding in this thread...I just like reading your posts but something seems slightly off to me and now I'm going to try and work through what I think that is...)

I guess I can see what you are saying/what Enneagram Institute is saying with regards to phobic 6s. But counterphobics...their over-reactions often stem from absolutely...not just believing but the experience of knowing...trusting themselves so completely that they've identified a serious problem and are sounding the loudest alarm ever sounded to wake-up all the sheep.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

To me, authority has to be earned, proven & tested endlessly in the process of living. Otherwise it's stagnant and rewards lazy efforts and entrenched positions.

This holds so much recognition to me. I love that you said "process of living" ! Wow. I simply find a dichotomy in how I live my own life with how I see authority setting a tone to OBEY, even if it's a tone I have adopted myself. It's simply a distinction in having freedom. Total freedom. Questioning power structures.

So I recognize a hypocrisy or bretrayal of what I *represent* to others looking in by questioning or doubting.

Still, I have no issues with this. Actually, it wasn't until I learned about all this, that I could make sense of that dissonance. "Ah. They don't have to synch up for me because they never will!" <--- In making that realization, I let go of much of the existential anxiety. I could be free to be who I am. Do what I want and question everything.

I'm not saying I gave up who I am. I just accepted certain things about who I am. In doing so, didn't feel so hamstrung by the "idea of authority". Feel more confidence in myself. Trust more. Which is strange for a 6 to say! I guess I trained my 6ness. It knows when to sit, heel, stay.

Which ties back to this statement:

But I do forget just how much of a privilege & pleasure it is to just sit and think, without the constant noise of external & internal pressures getting in the way.

That's sort of what I find myself left with and it gives me a bit of peace/zen. When everything is quiet, there are simple questions left. What do you want to do? What is in my grasp? What do I want for dinner tonight? <---- hardest existential question to answer! *6ness intensifies* (that last one was a joke).

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I guess I can see what you are saying/what Enneagram Institute is saying with regards to phobic 6s. But counterphobics...their over-reactions often stem from absolutely...not just believing but the experience of knowing...trusting themselves so completely that they've identified a serious problem and are sounding the loudest alarm ever sounded to wake-up all the sheep.

I'm not sure I understand, but I think you're hearing something about trusting in one's own judgment- like I'm saying e5s trust their own judgment more. (Is that what you're hearing?) That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying e5s' reaction to interpersonal stress is to pooh-pooh interdependence. While e6s seem to just accept that it's there.

 

[Starry]

I'm not sure I understand, but I think you're hearing something about trusting in one's own judgment- like I'm saying e5s trust their own judgment more. (Is that what you're hearing?) That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying e5s' reaction to interpersonal stress is to pooh-pooh interdependence. While e6s seem to just accept that it's there.

Whoops...I didn't take the time to word that correctly in spite of having a true appreciation for why it is important to be precise. I actually wasn't quite at the point of formulating an opinion with regards to what it was you were saying as I was stuck on what it was I imagined the Enneagram Institute was saying and you were sharing without what appeared to me to be any rejection of the things that were causing me to say "wait a minute". And so without that rejection piece it was entirely possible to me that my understanding of what Enneagram Institute was expressing in those passages was shared by you but again...I wasn't quite there yet. I was in the process of trying to figure that out. I'll go back and reread...

*so many, many mistyped 6s makes me jump

**yah see, I was also stuck on where you said "<-that is pretty much exactly what I was thinking..." so I wasn't sure.

 

[Forever]

Misidentifying Fours and Sixes
While there are real similarities between the two types, there are even more differences. The principal difference is that Sixes are usually extremely appealing and relate well to people; they have the ability to unconsciously engage the emotions of others so that others will like them and form secure relationships with them. Fours, in contrast, do not relate primarily to people but to their own inner emotional states. Fours take it for granted that they are alone in life, and find it difficult to form bonds with others—something that comes easily to Sixes. The psychic structures of the two types are also very different: Fours are true introverts, while Sixes are a blend of introversion and extroversion—true ambiverts who possess qualities of both orientations.

Confusion arises between these types principally on the part of Sixes who think that they are Fours for two main reasons. First, some Sixes identify with the negative side of the Four (depression, inferiority, self-doubt, and hopelessness, for example) and think they must be Fours because they recognize similar traits in themselves. The difference lies in the motivations for these traits. For example, while all the types can become depressed, Fours do so because they are disappointed with themselves for having lost some opportunity to actualize themselves. They become depressed when they realize that in their search for self, they have gone down a blind alley and now must pay the price. Unhealthy, depressed Fours are essentially angry with themselves for bringing this on themselves or for allowing it to happen.

By contrast, Sixes become depressed when they fear that they have done something to make their authority figure mad at them. Their depression is a response to their self-disparagement; it comes from the fear that the authority is angry with them and will punish them. Thus, the depression of Sixes is exogenous (coming from the outside) and can be relieved by a word of reassurance from the authority. This is not the case with Fours whose depression is endogenous (coming from the inside), a response to their self-accusations.

Second, we have characterized the Four as The Individualist , and some Sixes who are artistic think that they therefore must be Fours. However, as noted above in the discussion of Fours and Nines, artistic talent is not the sole domain of Fours, so it is entirely possible for Sixes to be artists of one kind or another. Even so, there are important differences in the creative work produced by these two types.

In general, Sixes tend to be performing artists, while Fours tend to be original creators. Sixes are more likely to be actors or musicians than poets and playwrights, more likely to perform the words or music of someone else than to create it themselves. Even those Sixes who are creative tend either to be traditionalists, creating within firmly established rules and styles, or they go to an extreme and become rebellious, reacting against traditionalism–such as rock stars and experimental novelists who purposely defy traditional forms. In either case, both tradition and reactions against it are an important aspect of their art. The themes typically found in the art of Sixes have to do with belonging, security, family, politics, country, and common values.

Creative Fours, by contrast, are individualists who go their own way to explore their feelings and other subjective personal states. The artistic products of Fours are much less involved either with following a tradition or with reacting against it. Fours are less apt to use political or communal experiences as the subject matter for their work, choosing instead the movements of their own souls, their personal revelations, the darkness and light they discover in themselves as they become immersed in the creative process. By listening to their inner voices, even average Fours may speak to the universal person or fail to communicate to anyone, at least to their contemporaries. They may be ahead of their time not because they are trying to be rebellious or avant-garde, but because they develop their own forms to express their personal point of view. What is important to Fours is not the tradition but personal truth. Tradition is no more than a backdrop against which Fours play out their own personal dramas. Compare and contrast the personalities of Rudolf Nureyev and Peter Ilich Tchaikovsky (Fours) with those of Mikhail Baryshnikov and Johannes Brahms (Sixes) for further similarities and differences.

From:Misidentifying 4 and 6 — The Enneagram Institute

Just going to also leave this here. I think this is quite beautiful. Don't think the 4 is a pretty type. Strongly relate to the last.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I can be oppositional, though never too aggressively. In fact the main flaw in my oppositional nature to authority is presentation; I lack style & charisma in those kinds of matters and this seems to undermine any beneficial effect my opposition might have (particularly frustrating when I am proven right). People listen more to the tone & and the flare than they do the point, and I think very few are innocent of doing this to some extent.
.

I decided I'm a 5, but I know what you're talking about, and to put it mildly, it's incredibly annoying.

"It's not what you say, but how you say it. "

 

[gromit]

This is the first to fade. /downer5commentoftheday

Well I dont think I'd like if they are skeptical about everything/everything I say... and I am not drawn to that attribute. It is more... a quality I don't know how to describe... maybe a seriousness... hm I'm at a loss for words here.

- - - Updated - - -

This is the first to fade. /downer5commentoftheday

Well I dont think I'd like if they are skeptical about everything/everything I say... and I am not drawn to that attribute. It is more... a quality I don't know how to describe... maybe a seriousness... hm I'm at a loss for words here.

- - - Updated - - -

This is the first to fade. /downer5commentoftheday

Well I dont think I'd like if they are skeptical about everything/everything I say... and I am not drawn to that attribute. It is more... a quality I don't know how to describe... maybe a seriousness... hm I'm at a loss for words here.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I'm not sure I understand, but I think you're hearing something about trusting in one's own judgment- like I'm saying e5s trust their own judgment more. (Is that what you're hearing?) That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying e5s' reaction to interpersonal stress is to pooh-pooh interdependence. While e6s seem to just accept that it's there.

[SUB]
Often I've said... "I wish I could just be a hermit." Though I'm realizing now that this isn't possible or even desirable, as romantic as it may seem.
[/SUB]

 

[Z Buck McFate]

**yah see, I was also stuck on where you said "<-that is pretty much exactly what I was thinking..." so I wasn't sure.

Yeah, reading it afterward, I can see how it wasn't clear.

I keep making forum posts that I totally super-facepalm in retrospect. Because the issue people take with it is so obvious that it's farcical I didn't anticipate it. It's a thing that I do now.

Specifically, I was thinking about how there's a distinct lack of action in e5s. There's no "loudest alarm ever sounded to wake-up all the sheep", there's withdrawing and figuring out how to cut any type of interaction/interdependence down to an absolute bare minimum. Hand to God, those two sentences I quoted from the page somehow affirmed this, in my mind- but in retrospect, it's weird that I thought so and they actually kind of affirm the false stereotypes that lead so many people to mistype in the first place.

Some time ago, I brought up the thing you just referred to in some e6 thread- about how it seems like they "know something so completely" (I used different terms, but I think I was referring to the same thing)- and then came back months later and amended it to say it seems more like Human Interaction OCD. I *think* I'm remembering that met with some agreement- like it wasn't about absolute conviction so much as an absolute need to know? Or something? (And like, sometimes "I KNOW I left the stove on!! I HAVE to check!!" can sound like conviction if enough panic is fueling it.)

So, to be clear, I don't think one type is more afraid than the other. But I think e5s are afraid of being incompetent (thus, overcompensating with like, Information OCD), whereas e6s are afraid of trust/other people (?) (thus, Human Interation OCD- be it in phobic or counterphobic form).