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[Type 4] Enneagram Type 4 Profile

highlander

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sx/sp
Posted with permission from Ocean Moonshine

Enneatype Four

Type Description

People of Enneatype Four construct their identities around their perception of themselves as being somehow unique and fundamentally different from others. This deep felt sense of being “different from” or “other than” pervades the Four’s sense of self, and functions as the basis for the Four’s attempt to create a persona that properly reflects who they feel they really are. Fours are not content (or even able) to live out the role assigned them by their societies or their families; they self-consciously search for an expression they feel will be truly authentic. Of all the types, Fours are the most acutely aware that the persona is a construct – something which has been created and can thus be re-created. This is indeed the fundamental respect in which Fours are artists; they may or may not be artists in the conventional sense of the term, but all Fours have a sense that their identities are, in some respect, their own creation.

Fours generally construct a persona and project an image which has flair or “style.” This style may be, for instance, one of casual elegance (“shabby chic” perhaps), or it may be more flagrantly counter culture, but whichever image is chosen, it will tend to bear the Four’s own original stamp and will be an expression of the Four’s current sense of self.

There is a paradoxical quality to this whole endeavor. Fours strive for authenticity, for an expression of themselves which is “true,” but the image they portray is, by its nature, delusory, and inevitably fails to convey the true depths and complexity of the self. It also necessarily falls short of the Four’s own personal ideal. This sense of perpetually “falling short” contributes to the Four’s sense of inadequacy, as Fours feel that they are not only unable to live up to society’s ideal but to their own individual ideals as well. This dynamic of striving and falling short is at the core of the Four’s sense of shame, frustration and heightened feelings of self-consciousness.

To be sure, Fours compensate for their feelings of inferiority with an equally strong sense of superiority. Fours tend to feel a sense of disdain for whatever is ordinary and for the “common” sorts of lives with which most people seem to content themselves. They tend to feel that their outsider status, their sense of style and their heightened sense of self-consciousness, confer on them a stamp of genuineness and “class.” Thus a feeling of being a member of the “true aristocracy” alternates with deep feelings of shame, and fears of being somehow deeply flawed or defective.

The Four’s inner landscape is thus complex, and their issues surrounding identity fraught with frustrations. There is even an enervating quality to the whole psychic drama, which, along with the Four’s emotional sensitivity, contributes to the Four’s characteristic need to withdraw. When Fours withdraw, they immerse themselves in their own mental landscapes where they are free to cultivate and analyze their feelings. In the realm of fantasy, Fours are not constrained by the mundane considerations which are the plague of everyday life; the inner life can thus become more real than the outer.

Fours are primarily emotional by nature, and of all the types, probably have the most complex palette of emotional states. While Fours are not blind to the “facts” and the supposed “objective” state of affairs, they tend to interpret reality at least as much in terms of its symbolic content and emotional resonance. John Keats, a Four, expressed this well when he stated: “I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart’s affections and the truth of the imagination.” Fours are thus emotionally attuned to meaning, and this attention to meaning sometimes gives Fours access to a dimension of reality that others miss. Such insight might find expression in art, literature or music, but is often enough simply manifested in an idiosyncratic lifestyle which expresses the Four’s own personal vision. When Fours are unbalanced however, their emotional sensitivity, which is generally accompanied by an introspective nature, can result in states of self-absorption or descents into melancholia or despair.

Fours tend to inhabit their emotional states, making them often seem somewhat moody or temperamental. This emotionality feeds the identity issues which are at the core of enneatype Four. As Fours introspect, looking for who they “really are,” they encounter a constantly shifting play of emotional states emanating from a wellspring which seems to have an infinite depth. There seems to be no ground, no center for the Four to hold onto. The “true self” cannot be found, so the Four shifts focus to the level of presentation and persona.

Some Fours act out their emotional states in episodes of high drama, while others are more likely to withdraw, but as those in the Four’s life are frequently unaware of the inner chain of connections which has given rise to the Four’s current emotional state, there tends to be an unpredictable quality to intimate relations with Fours. Fours are often in search of the perfect lover, someone who will rescue them from their self-absorption, but as they have high expectations of lovers, suffer from a sense of shame, and easily feel misunderstood, love relationships seldom progress smoothly. On the high side, they are highly sensitive to the emotional states of those they love, are non-judgmental (of everything except bad taste) and are unafraid of looking at the dark side of human nature. They can therefore be highly supportive of friends and lovers.

In the traditional Enneagram, Fours are said to suffer from “envy.” Fours often idealize qualities they find in others and then come to envy those same qualities. By a process known as introjection, they sometimes try to incorporate those very same qualities into themselves. This, in turn, once again, triggers the Four’s struggle for authenticity, as the idealized quality is seen as basically belonging to “the other.” The envy that Fours experience is a fundamental manifestation of the Four’s feeling of defectiveness and tends to be a recurring problem for type Four individuals until such time as they have learned self-acceptance. Often enough, the envy that Fours experience actually manifests as a longing…a sort of wistful desire that they too be capable of the simpler sorts of happiness that others seem so readily able to achieve.

When unbalanced, the Four’s envy can take a nasty turn as unhealthy Fours tend to project their self-loathing outward. At such times, the previously sensitive Four can become spiteful and vindictive, feeling justified in being so because they have been misunderstood, and because they have suffered so terribly. As Fours have a well developed emotional intelligence, they know how to wound with words, and, when they are unbalanced, feel incapable of restraining themselves. They tend to lash out at the very ones who have been most supportive and who might be trying to help them. If this causes the Four’s intimates to withdraw, the Four’s abandonment issues are likely to be triggered, resulting in a frantic attempt to re-ignite the relationship. This can become a recurring pattern in the life of an unhealthy Four.

Fours sometimes masochistically cultivate their negative emotional states. They actually “fall in love with suffering” as they come to believe that suffering is a sign of their depth of soul. The idea of themselves as being melancholic can thus become a part of their idealized self-image, making it difficult to overcome. Bouts of self-indulgence and even dissolution are not uncommon, as unbalanced Fours feel justified in attempting to compensate for the general lack of pleasure that they experience in their lives. Rather than looking for practical solutions to their difficulties, Fours are prone to fantasizing about a savior who will rescue them from their unhappiness.

Healthier Fours, on the other hand, are grounded in an identity much deeper than their currently chosen persona or their shifting emotional states. Healthy Fours retain their emotional sensitivity and receptivity without experiencing either as a source of pain and wounding. Having learned self-acceptance, they are capable of experiencing a sort of happiness that embraces both the light and dark sides of life. Their happiness is thus devoid of the grasping after pleasure that characterizes so much that goes by that name. It has a fullness and depth to it that is the deepest and truest source of creativity.

It has always been the task of enneatype Four to confront the complexities of the emotional life, and it is very often Fours who retrieve for us much that would prefer to stay comfortably hidden from consciousness, much that is dark and unsavory, much that is disturbing and unsettling. But, when healthy, Fours show us our happiness too.

Fours with a Three wing are generally more outgoing, practical and competitive than Fours with a Five wing. They often have a dramatic flair and tend to be emotionally expressive. Fours with a Five wing are more withdrawn and, while still predominantly emotional, more likely to be intellectuals who infuse their feelings with ideas. They tend to be introspective, often to the point of self-absorption.

Type Exemplars

Existential Philosophy is attractive to many Fours and several of the most significant Existentialist writers have been Fours: Soren Kierkegaard who searched for a truth that was “true for him” was a Four, as were Albert Camus and Fyodor Dostoyevsky. Dotoyevsky’s “underground man” was also a Four…an unhealthy one to be sure. At one point he declared in typical Fourish fashion “My debauchery I undertook solitarily, by night, covertly, fearfully, filthily, with a shame that would not abandon me… I was then already bearing the underground in my soul.”

Many singer/songwriters have been Fours, including Bob Dylan (“the voice of his generation,” a label he always detested), Annie Lenox, Prince, Alanis Morrisette. Also the more classical composers: Beethoven, Chopin, Mahler and Tchaikovsky.

The photographer, Diane Arbus, was likewise a Four. Her obsession with those whom most consider to be “freaks” demonstrates a typical Fourish interest in whatever exists outside the boundaries of the conventional. About a collection of photographs aptly entitled Freaks, Arbus said: “Freaks was a thing I photographed a lot. It was one of the first things I photographed and it had a terrific kind of excitement for me. I just used to adore them. I still do adore some of them. I don’t quite mean they’re my best friends but they made me feel a mixture of shame and awe. There’s a quality of legend about freaks. Lke a person in a fairy tale who stops you and demands that you answer a riddle. Most people go through life dreading they’ll have a traumatifc experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They’ve already passed their test in life. They’re aristocrats.”

Famous artists include Gustav Klimt, Egon Schiele, Frida Kahlo, Kasimir Malevich, Amadeo Modigliani, Edvard Munch and Francisco de Goya.

Many famous writers have been Fours. To name a few: Oscar Wilde, Marcel Proust, Virginia Woolf, Sylvia Plath, D.H. Lawrence, William Faulkner, J.D.Salinger, Marguerite Duras, Isabel Allende and Anais Nin. Nin’s diary is a captivating portrait of a talented but unhealthy Four caught up in a state of narcissistic self-absorption.

The romantic movement was replete with Fours: Percy Bysshe Shelley, William Blake, Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Lord Byron and John Keats were all Fours.

Actors include: Sarah Bernhardt, Rachel Weisz, Laurence Olivier, Judy Garland, Jeremy Irons, Johnny Depp and Winona Ryder.

Famous fictional characters include The Bell Jar’s Esther Greenwood, Anna Karenina, and Blanche du Bois.

Possible Mistypes

Fours and Ones are both oriented towards an ideal, although the One’s ideal generally has a moral torque whereas the Four’s is more aesthetic and personal. Both can also have perfectionistic streaks. But Fours tend to be self-absorbed, and, when stressed, become self-indulgent and more emotionally expressive, whereas Ones under stress become increasingly self-denying and emotionally repressed.

Fours and Twos can both be emotionally expressive, and Fours, like Twos, can experience neediness under stress, but it is Twos, especially those who have artistic inclinations, who are more likely to mistype as Fours than the converse. The principle difference centers around the fact that Twos tend to be focused on others, whereas Fours tend toward self-absorption. Fours are introspective and tend to magnify their perceived flaws whereas Twos tend to have a self-flattering self-image.

Both Threes and Fours are concerned with image and, when the wing is strong, can mistype, although here, once again, it is typically Threes who mistype as Four rather than the converse. Threes however, are generally more comfortable with self-presentation and are more likely to achieve “success” in the conventional sense of the term than are the more reclusive and self-conscious Fours. Fours are introspective whereas Threes tend to focus outward. Finally, Threes tend to detach from emotions under stress and to focus on being competent, whereas Fours are likely to want a time out to process their emotions.

Fours and Fives share many traits in common and can easily be mistyped, especially when the wing is strong. Both types are frequently introspective, intellectually inclined and prone to withdrawal. The principle difference lies in the relationship that each type has to emotional experience. Fours generally know exactly how they are feeling and are generally comfortable dealing with emotional expressions from others. Fives, on the other hand, tend to detach from direct emotional experience under stress, and need to take time to process their emotional response. Finally, Fours are more inclined to self-revelation than are Fives, who generally find self-disclosure to be especially taxing.

Fours and Sixes can mistype, especially if the Six is artistically inclined and individualistic. But Fours are less attuned to the needs and expectations of others than are Sixes, who are usually very involved with friends and family and, more generally, in affairs of the world. Sixes frequently suffer from inner conflict but they are not essentially self-absorbed. Most Sixes form interpersonal bonds quite naturally, something which doesn’t come as easily to more reclusive and self-conscious Fours.

While almost the opposite in some respects, Fours and Sevens can both be unconventional, creative, and self-indulgent, and both can be attention seeking. Surprisingly, it is not especially uncommon for Sevens to mistype as Fours. When they recognize the disparity between the optimistic, fun loving persona that they project to the world and their own often anxious internal mental states, they can confuse their pain with the melancholia of type Four. Sevens are in flight from this pain however, whereas Fours often cultivate their negative mental states. Moreover, Sevens are generally far more extroverted than Fours.

It is not common for Fours and Eights to be mistaken for one another, but Fours with Three wings can present as passionate, expressive and domineering, and such behavior might generate a mistype. Eights however tend to repress from consciousness any feelings of vulnerability whereas Fours are comfortable exploring such emotions. Eights are practical people of action, Fours require a good deal of time alone and often work on projects which have no practical application.

Fours and Nines are both withdrawn types, and both can be creative and sensitive. Fours have a far darker inner mental landscape than do Nines however, who tend to detach from unpleasant emotions. Nines are conflict avoidant whereas Fours sometimes invite conflict as a means to intensify experience. Nines tend to relate well to others and to find a niche in their social circle; Fours tend to feel like misfits who can’t quite find their place.
 
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Bnova

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So true...how can E4 intjs cope with depression? and how can we find true success in its truest form?
 

draon9

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so
Forget e4, they are a bunch of cry babies and [redacted] and need to do something better for themselves other moping all day or looking ar themselves
  1. p
 
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Kas

Fabula rasa
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Apr 22, 2015
Messages
2,554
Q: How far do you think you can go with this tortured view of the world?
A: As far as the world can go in its tortured condition, maybe that far, but not further.

Q: You don't expect audiences and critics to go along with you , do you?
A: No.

Q: Than why do you push and pull them that way?
A: I go that way. I don't push or pull anyone with me.

Q: Yes. But you hope to continue to have people listen to you, don't you.
A: Naturally I hope to.
.
 

Kanra Jest

Av'ent'Gar'de ~
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sx/so
But how does it compute with thinker types. Lots of people like to say "4"=Fi and shit.

As 3w4 or 4w3, Hell if I know. sx/sp adds to a 4ish intensity. Despite being, yeah, ENTP. I can relate to this a lot, except I'm only super emotional for a moments at a time, until I return to experiencing little emotion.

Largely, in fact, the way my 4ish emotionality manifested is in a fragmented sense. As a baseline I don't feel much emotion, therefore I listen to music, sometimes drown myself in it, if I'm so inclined. To feel it. Sometimes a lot. Like a drug. Whether that be darker emotions, or more fun or entertaining.

I find emotions simply fascinating. Whether it be my own or others. And their minds. Often they blend hand in hand no matter which aspect has the steering wheel.
 

Kanra Jest

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I don't believe that... the "persona" so to speak is entirely fake. It's an aspect of the self, the only one we ALLOW you to see. Sure, it's painted up and looks nice. But that's like putting on makeup to go out and about. It's still you, and an expression of you (it can be), but it doesn't mean it's a full makeover where they don't look like themselves at all(for the record I like makeup but I hate when people put a huge amount and look completely different than without it because it's so deceptive). That would be in my opinion more so than "fake".

Besides. Without makeup is more vulnerable and vulnerability is foolish to just parade around to everyone.. unless advantageous, perhaps.
 

Tomb1

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Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
994
There's a big chunk of type four that's missing from the description and its not entirely accurate. It leaves too much wiggle room for IEI/EII 9w1s to mistype themselves as fours.

People of Enneatype Four construct their identities around their perception of themselves as being somehow unique and fundamentally different from others. This deep felt sense of being “different from” or “other than” pervades the Four’s sense of self, and functions as the basis for the Four’s attempt to create a persona that properly reflects who they feel they really are. Fours are not content (or even able) to live out the role assigned them by their societies or their families; they self-consciously search for an expression they feel will be truly authentic. Of all the types, Fours are the most acutely aware that the persona is a construct – something which has been created and can thus be re-created. This is indeed the fundamental respect in which Fours are artists; they may or may not be artists in the conventional sense of the term, but all Fours have a sense that their identities are, in some respect, their own creation.

Fours generally construct a persona and project an image which has flair or “style.” This style may be, for instance, one of casual elegance (“shabby chic” perhaps), or it may be more flagrantly counter culture, but whichever image is chosen, it will tend to bear the Four’s own original stamp and will be an expression of the Four’s current sense of self.

The four's persona is constructed out of confounding expectations and unsettling those who wish to limit them in some way.

Furthermore, construction of persona is not the "fundamental respect in which fours are artists." What makes fours artists is 1) their ability to grasp originality/true art from small details and generate a storm of intuition from even the most 'mundane' aspects of reality, and 2) the capacity for true art to put them back together again.

There is a paradoxical quality to this whole endeavor. Fours strive for authenticity, for an expression of themselves which is “true,” but the image they portray is, by its nature, delusory, and inevitably fails to convey the true depths and complexity of the self. It also necessarily falls short of the Four’s own personal ideal. This sense of perpetually “falling short” contributes to the Four’s sense of inadequacy, as Fours feel that they are not only unable to live up to society’s ideal but to their own individual ideals as well. This dynamic of striving and falling short is at the core of the Four’s sense of shame, frustration and heightened feelings of self-consciousness.

Fours don't strive to be authentic....they already view themselves as authentic and one of a kind, as somebody who marches to their own beat.

To be sure, Fours compensate for their feelings of inferiority with an equally strong sense of superiority. Fours tend to feel a sense of disdain for whatever is ordinary and for the “common” sorts of lives with which most people seem to content themselves. They tend to feel that their outsider status, their sense of style and their heightened sense of self-consciousness, confer on them a stamp of genuineness and “class.” Thus a feeling of being a member of the “true aristocracy” alternates with deep feelings of shame, and fears of being somehow deeply flawed or defective.

Fours don't feel a sense of disdain for what's ordinary so much as they feel a sense of disdain for what's crude. Nothing is ever just ordinary to a four. Show a four something that's ordinary and they'll show you the dimension you're missing which makes it not so ordinary.

The four's deeper feelings of shame aren't triggered by their outsider status....the four's shame is triggered by having to justify themselves.

The Four’s inner landscape is thus complex, and their issues surrounding identity fraught with frustrations. There is even an enervating quality to the whole psychic drama, which, along with the Four’s emotional sensitivity, contributes to the Four’s characteristic need to withdraw. When Fours withdraw, they immerse themselves in their own mental landscapes where they are free to cultivate and analyze their feelings. In the realm of fantasy, Fours are not constrained by the mundane considerations which are the plague of everyday life; the inner life can thus become more real than the outer.

This is not accurate. Withdrawal in fours manifests kinesthetically through an aura of self-possession which is intended as a buffer between others and the four's underlying fragility. The need to withdraw does not mean the four is avoidant of contact....so much as the four keeps themselves in a readiness to walk away, not letting themselves show too much overt interest in the life of others, overinvesting themselves in their own story, keeping their heart hard to conquer. Due to the four's fragile nature, the four instinctively wants to make sure that if they give the person their heart the person will do well by it. Once the four gives their heart to somebody, then they become extremely fragile to whatever that person says...a minor dig can instantly trigger shame...any type of humiliation can drive the four to the point of wanting to puke and simultaneously fight to justify themselves.... to the extent they can't or the person is an abusive prick, shame turns into giving up on life and entertaining death as a welcome escape, even closing one's eyes and wishing for it.

Fours are primarily emotional by nature, and of all the types, probably have the most complex palette of emotional states. While Fours are not blind to the “facts” and the supposed “objective” state of affairs, they tend to interpret reality at least as much in terms of its symbolic content and emotional resonance. John Keats, a Four, expressed this well when he stated: “I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart’s affections and the truth of the imagination.” Fours are thus emotionally attuned to meaning, and this attention to meaning sometimes gives Fours access to a dimension of reality that others miss. Such insight might find expression in art, literature or music, but is often enough simply manifested in an idiosyncratic lifestyle which expresses the Four’s own personal vision. When Fours are unbalanced however, their emotional sensitivity, which is generally accompanied by an introspective nature, can result in states of self-absorption or descents into melancholia or despair.

Its quite true Fours are very fragile and a ferris wheel of intense emotional states, but they are strong-willed when it comes to not compromising on their inner reality...it's part of the overinvestment they make in their own personal story as a means of maintaining their aura of self-possession. There is a quality of melodrama and romantically tragic independence that the description completely misses....

When unbalanced, the Four’s envy can take a nasty turn as unhealthy Fours tend to project their self-loathing outward. At such times, the previously sensitive Four can become spiteful and vindictive, feeling justified in being so because they have been misunderstood, and because they have suffered so terribly. As Fours have a well developed emotional intelligence, they know how to wound with words, and, when they are unbalanced, feel incapable of restraining themselves. They tend to lash out at the very ones who have been most supportive and who might be trying to help them. If this causes the Four’s intimates to withdraw, the Four’s abandonment issues are likely to be triggered, resulting in a frantic attempt to re-ignite the relationship. This can become a recurring pattern in the life of an unhealthy Four.

That's part of it, but moreso, unhealthy fours are at such a low in self-esteem they punish themselves by taking their constructed persona to a riskier extreme. They're no longer just playing with a persona.

In the traditional Enneagram, Fours are said to suffer from “envy.” Fours often idealize qualities they find in others and then come to envy those same qualities. By a process known as introjection, they sometimes try to incorporate those very same qualities into themselves. This, in turn, once again, triggers the Four’s struggle for authenticity, as the idealized quality is seen as basically belonging to “the other.” The envy that Fours experience is a fundamental manifestation of the Four’s feeling of defectiveness and tends to be a recurring problem for type Four individuals until such time as they have learned self-acceptance. Often enough, the envy that Fours experience actually manifests as a longing…a sort of wistful desire that they too be capable of the simpler sorts of happiness that others seem so readily able to achieve.

Not quite. The four stays addicted to bleeding wounds that others have inflicted upon them in the past as a means of keeping themselves emotionally stirred up. Envy does not trigger a four's struggle for authenticity so much as it is a misguided attempt to put their broken pieces back together again by giving them something to strive for...a way to remake their life whole again and "rise like the phoenix."

Healthier Fours, on the other hand, are grounded in an identity much deeper than their currently chosen persona or their shifting emotional states. Healthy Fours retain their emotional sensitivity and receptivity without experiencing either as a source of pain and wounding. Having learned self-acceptance, they are capable of experiencing a sort of happiness that embraces both the light and dark sides of life. Their happiness is thus devoid of the grasping after pleasure that characterizes so much that goes by that name. It has a fullness and depth to it that is the deepest and truest source of creativity.

healthier fours find their center/strength by enduring through harsh situations...
 

LenaOnTheMoon

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I have an infp 4w5 friend who is currently going through an unhealthy phase. She is withdrawn and finds it hard to mingle with her peers and often harbors unhealthy thoughts. She seems to find fault with herself everywhere, suppressing her emotions for she’s afraid they may be destructive. The thing is, she used to go about falling in love with boys she met, but there was one particular rejection that hit her the hardest, making her unable to love somebody without lusting for them. I have suggested that she go to a counselor for help, but other than that I don’t know what to do about her. Any clues?
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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I have an infp 4w5 friend who is currently going through an unhealthy phase. She is withdrawn and finds it hard to mingle with her peers and often harbors unhealthy thoughts. She seems to find fault with herself everywhere, suppressing her emotions for she’s afraid they may be destructive. The thing is, she used to go about falling in love with boys she met, but there was one particular rejection that hit her the hardest, making her unable to love somebody without lusting for them. I have suggested that she go to a counselor for help, but other than that I don’t know what to do about her. Any clues?
That's a hard situation. She definitely could benefit from a counselor but maybe she's afraid she would be nudged to not be who she thinks she is. Authenticity is really important -- but it seems like she's really stuck on just existing within what she's currently feeling and how she views herself.

It is okay to listen to other people's opinions and views of oneself, to get an external perspective. Still, she'd had to believe she can be honest about herself without someone trying to just force her to change. Good therapists don't do that, they listen and reflect and suggest, so that the patient can be the object of their own changes.

Also, at some point if one is trapped in a bad cycle and refracting on themselves, they become miserable. At some point the misery compels one to change. So at that point in time, maybe she's be open to hearing how others might view her from the outside or what some new options might be.

Love doesn't necessarily mean wanting to have sex with someone. It can, sure, but sometimes the love can transcend physical desire and you just want the best for someone without needing to engage on that level which can feel limited in some way honestly.

she could benefit from hearing some good things about herself. Being honest with oneself doesn't necessarily mean berating oneself for all of one's faults. in THAT area, I can strongly empathize. I was so hard on myself for so many years, and still sometimes can be self-critical. I learned it was okay, though, to be flawed and imperfect. I am trying to do my best and that is the reasonable best I can do. I can't be perfect. It kind of helped me when I was doing a lot of fiction reading, to read stories about other people who also were suffering guilt and self-criticism but they had the realization that they were human and in actually they had done the best they could do in a certain situation. They were actually okay, flaws and all, and could not condemn themselves for their imperfections.

I dunno. I hope your friend is able to find some help and consolation, and also someone she trust who can provide her input from looking at her from the outside. She is existing in a kind of self-bondage which leads to misery.
 

LenaOnTheMoon

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Thanks for your advice. I tried to get her to write ten good things about herself, but she was reluctant. Good thing you mentioned not forcing her to form an opinion about herself. I guess as you say I’m just supposed to listen to what she says and offer her time to reflect?
 
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